do different paths of self realization go towards absolute truth?

[realdemigod]

Do you have any example to follow who has only Bhakti and no karma and knowledge but still attained the heights of Chaitanya, Ramakrishna, Ramana, Vivekananda, Shankaracharya, etc. Same goes for other two also. If you feel anything different, read their life. They all have different proportion of each of these three - manifestation can always have one as dominant.

Like Chaitanya and Ramakrisha - Bhakti. Do you mean they did not have knowledge or karma ? Vivekananda - Knowledge. Do you mean he did not have any bhakti or knowledge.

There is no pure path. Neither there is moksha without knowledge. Nor any knowledge without karma. Nor karma or knowledge without bhakti.

Very early in my day of spiritual quest, I used to think the same. But more learning has changed my thoughts.

Vivekananda mentions clearly in his works that working out salvation by individual modes. Of course I don't have real life examples but that doesn't prove itsn't possible. I know some people who work round the clock without expecting much from companies and couple of them are ardent atheists and I bet they wouldn't know anything about Brahman. For them work is worship. Those are real karma yogis IMO. Krsna clearly says people breaking the cycles of birth, death and rebirth in Bhagavad Gita through Karma yoga. I believe salvation can be met through individual modes. Realisation of Brahman directly in your own framework of body and mind doesn't need bhakti ..karma may be yes because your actions should have made you ready to realise Brahman. Your understanding of Karma yoga seems to be different from mine. I'll stop here else this thread will turn like most here.

[kallol]

Vivekananda mentions clearly in his works that working out salvation by individual modes. Of course I don't have real life examples but that doesn't prove itsn't possible. I know some people who work round the clock without expecting much from companies and couple of them are ardent atheists and I bet they wouldn't know anything about Brahman. For them work is worship. Those are real karma yogis IMO. Krsna clearly says people breaking the cycles of birth, death and rebirth in Bhagavad Gita through Karma yoga. I believe salvation can be met through individual modes. Realisation of Brahman directly in your own framework of body and mind doesn't need bhakti ..karma may be yes because your actions should have made you ready to realise Brahman. Your understanding of Karma yoga seems to be different from mine. I'll stop here else this thread will turn like most here.

I would suggest to understand the state of "Salvation" or "Mokhsa" - What are these ? What happens ? Where it happens ? How it happens ? and Why it happens ?

If you do the analysis you will find substantial part of the answer why all paths necessarily need to have components of all these three. It needs long deliberations or long analysis. Better analysis as it will help assimilate faster.

As per my experience - the knowledge we call Hinduism is nothing but a combination of higher level knowledge (Macro science of present & future) and the lower level derivatives laid out for common human to align with the macro level.

[hinduism♥krishna]

Vivekananda mentions clearly in his works that working out salvation by individual modes. Of course I don't have real life examples but that doesn't prove itsn't possible. I know some people who work round the clock without expecting much from companies and couple of them are ardent atheists and I bet they wouldn't know anything about Brahman. For them work is worship. Those are real karma yogis IMO. Krsna clearly says people breaking the cycles of birth, death and rebirth in Bhagavad Gita through Karma yoga. I believe salvation can be met through individual modes. Realisation of Brahman directly in your own framework of body and mind doesn't need bhakti ..karma may be yes because your actions should have made you ready to realise Brahman. Your understanding of Karma yoga seems to be different from mine. I'll stop here else this thread will turn like most here.

I would suggest to understand the state of "Salvation" or "Mokhsa" - What are these ? What happens ? Where it happens ? How it happens ? and Why it happens ?

If you do the analysis you will find substantial part of the answer why all paths necessarily need to have components of all these three. It needs long deliberations or long analysis. Better analysis as it will help assimilate faster.

As per my experience - the knowledge we call Hinduism is nothing but a combination of higher level knowledge (Macro science of present & future) and the lower level derivatives laid out for common human to align with the macro level.

pranam. jai sri govinda hari.

i think all these paths knowledge , karma , bhakti have a one goal ie. knowledge about parabramhan. Without knowledge it is not possible to attain bramhan.( as per upanishadas).
We have to understand that although lord krishna instructs different paths in "bhagavad gita" but in fact they are nondifferent. KNOWLEDGE is the basic support for karma and bhakti yoga.[ here knowledge means knowledge in the mode of goodness ].All the three paths goes towards a one point ie. knowledge of bramhan [ knowledge of knowing term " i am bramhan " "ayam atma bramha".] . And after realising parabramhan , knowlege [ that i m bramhan] itself along with maya which is responsible for bondage merges into parabramhan. AND there remains only absolute bliss; parabramhan ; sat chit anand swaroopa which is undescribable. THAT state is beyond existence and nonexistence . That state is beyond consiousness and unconsiousness.

BUT according to upanishadas point of view , karma is not the means of liberation.Knowledge OF IDENTIFICATION with bramhan is the only way.

HERE are some verses from upanishadas ;


Mundaka Upanishad I.2. 7 �....Indeed those who consider karma to be a means for moksha are fools. They enter old age and death again and again.�


Kenopanishad II.4 � �Through knowledge is attained immortality� �(...vidyayaa vindate amrutam�).

Upanishad III.8 and VI.15- � Knowing that Paramatma that is Pratyagatma, Sakshi, that is the infinite, that is all pervading, that is effulgent........men become immortal. For attaining this Brahman, there is no other means� (�.......na anya panthaa vidyate ayanaaya.�).


�Kaivalya Upanishad 10 � �Clearly recognizing oneself to be present in all beings and clearly recognizing all beings in oneself, the seeker attains the Supreme Brahman, not by any other means�).

I Think all paths will lead to the bramhan only. BUT ONLY CONDITION we should know that we should not think ourself different from parabramhan. because

Brhadaranyaka II.iv.6 � �One who views Brahman as if having diversity in It goes from death to death.�

Brhadaranyaka I.iv.10 says �He who thinks that Brahman is one and he is another does not know.�

without knowning parabramhan as self , liberation is not possible.

[Ra K Sankar]

Namaste

As we go higher and higher, the paths may merge. Before that, there may be as many paths as there are individuals.

Regards
Ra K Sankar

[philosoraptor]

Given that this is the Hare Krishna (ISKCON) forum, it might be advisable for people giving their personal opinions which contradict Hare Krishna philosophy to refrain from doing so. At least, unless they can provide explicit shAstric backing for them.

[hinduism♥krishna]

Given that this is the Hare Krishna (ISKCON) forum, it might be advisable for people giving their personal opinions which contradict Hare Krishna philosophy to refrain from doing so. At least, unless they can provide explicit shAstric backing for them.

namaste.
We are not giving personal opinions.We are talking according to upanishadas.
If upanishadas deny Hare krishna philosophy , what can we do?
Everyone has a right to present their views.

jai shri hari

[smaranam]

Everyone has a right to present their views.

jai shri hari

Certainly they do, but why post in the ISKCON forum diliberately if it is against the philosophy they follow ? It is just plain ettiquette that one leaves forum A for A-topics, or related to views of A.

Jai Shri Hari Govind Mukunda MurAri
ChittahAri vaMshi-dhAri
MadhusUdan Manamohan GiridhAri
Keshav NArAyaNa MAdhav KauMsAri
PItavAsa Kaustubha-dhAri
GopAl ShyAmsundar Tribhangalalita Keshi-BakAri

[hinduism♥krishna]

Namste स्मरणं

I think you are right

[philosoraptor]

Sometimes I think it's racist to call certain individuals trolls.

Trolls at least turn to stone during the day....

:-)

[hinduism♥krishna]

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