Seeking God Exclusively

[Premāyaṇa]

I've been reading the lessons at the Himalayan Academy website. Today I read this in Merging with Śiva:

How can we know when we're ready to know the Self? How do we know when the soul is spiritually mature? When we begin a journey and clearly define our destination, then we must begin from where we are, not elsewhere. Clearly defining our destination requires knowing where we are, requires determining whether or not we want to go there at this time. We must ask whether we have the means, the willpower, to get there. Are we ready to leave the world, or must we fulfill further obligations in the world and to the world? Have we paid all of our debts? We cannot leave the world with karmas still unresolved. Perhaps we desire something more, some further human fulfillment of affection, creativity, wealth, professional accomplishment, name and fame. In other words, do we still have worldly involvements and attachments? Are we ready for the final journey life has to offer? Are we prepared to endure the hardships of sadhana, to suffer the death of the ego? Or would we prefer more pleasures in the world of "I" and "mine"? It is a matter of evolution, of what stage of life we have entered in this incarnation--is it charya, kriya, yoga or jnana? When the soul is spiritually mature, we know when we're ready to know the Self.

I've been having limited experiences of the Self, of oneness, since I was about 13. Ever since then, I've had that experience over the years. In the last few years it has gotten more frequent and more intense.

About 2 years ago, I had such an experience that lasted with me for at least a month or two. My own egoic doubts and fears came to me and brought me out of it eventually. But it was the deepest I had ever gotten.

Since then, I can generally trigger that state by will, though I cannot remain in it for long periods of time.

Anyway, this paragraph made me think. I run my own business, which has been a dream of mine since I was about 16 years old. I am married, so the choice is between running my business, or getting a job where I work for someone else, of course.
I do get anxious about money, but only so that my wife and I can have enough to get by. Largely I try to focus on my customers, and I often charge less than I could.

But the above quote made me think, am I doing the right thing? I mean, I am living a married life, so realistically I have to work one way or another. But I know it is important not to get caught up in material gains, and that is certainly not the type of person I am. I care about God and seeking Him.

Many times, God takes all of my attention. I am trying to keep a balance though, of course. My desire above all is to reach mokṣa, but of course I have a family to take care of, too.

I guess I just want to make sure I seek God as I should, while making sure I am a responsible husband. Is this possible?

[JaiMaaDurga]

Namaste Premāyaṇa,

(My reply is not intended to be a lecture, only the thoughts your
post brought forth; please bear this in mind)

It is certainly not impossible to be a householder and continue to progress
spiritually; it has often been the advice of the wise to those who
have responsibilities to others, to first fulfill their obligations, to first know
honestly and thoroughly their role in the family, the community; the impact
their decisions and actions have on those around them- and then to
discharge those obligations and responsibilities to the best of their ability,
seeking and accepting divine guidance as how best to do this during times of
uncertainty.

After all, no one would wish for the AERB Chairman to overlook critical
safety violations as a result of repeated entering samadhi during reviews and
inspections!

Rather, better to attain progress by striving for clarity, honesty, and
beneficity in all activities, external and internal. While the lives of saints
and ascetics can make for compelling and inspirational reading, it is
helpful to remember that they are the exception, not the rule; the goal
has never been for all people everywhere to emulate their example
exactly.

Please do not take the following words as implying anything about your
motives, for this is not my intention at all- simply a general observation:
many who are attracted to or fascinated by the idea of devoting their
lives to spiritual pursuits are not being honest with themselves; it is
rather the fantasy of morally justified escape that drives them, serving
self masquerading as Self.
Such a one, who is restless, who finds mundanity to be unbearable, is
certainly not proceeding by divine calling, but their own will disguised as
such- they do not see their greatest obstacle will be found in every mirror.

These experiences of yours since age 13- can you say more about the
nature of them? I know it is like describing color to one born blind, due
to the inherently subjective nature of such, but sharing more may prove
helpful. Of course, the suggestion not to become attached to them
sprang first to mind

Again, please remember these are only the words of a stranger in a forum,
and one just as prone to errors and ignorance as any other...
may Maa carry you across the ocean of miseries

JAI MATA DI

[Premāyaṇa]

It is certainly not impossible to be a householder and continue to progress
spiritually; it has often been the advice of the wise to those who
have responsibilities to others, to first fulfill their obligations, to first know
honestly and thoroughly their role in the family, the community; the impact
their decisions and actions have on those around them- and then to
discharge those obligations and responsibilities to the best of their ability,
seeking and accepting divine guidance as how best to do this during times of
uncertainty.

After all, no one would wish for the AERB Chairman to overlook critical
safety violations as a result of repeated entering samadhi during reviews and
inspections!

Rather, better to attain progress by striving for clarity, honesty, and
beneficity in all activities, external and internal. While the lives of saints
and ascetics can make for compelling and inspirational reading, it is
helpful to remember that they are the exception, not the rule; the goal
has never been for all people everywhere to emulate their example
exactly.

I agree with most of what you have said above. But what do you mean that they are the exception, not the rule?

Please do not take the following words as implying anything about your
motives, for this is not my intention at all- simply a general observation:
many who are attracted to or fascinated by the idea of devoting their
lives to spiritual pursuits are not being honest with themselves; it is
rather the fantasy of morally justified escape that drives them, serving
self masquerading as Self.
Such a one, who is restless, who finds mundanity to be unbearable, is
certainly not proceeding by divine calling, but their own will disguised as
such- they do not see their greatest obstacle will be found in every mirror.

No, not at all. It's been my dream since I was 16 to run my own business, and that is what I am doing. It is stressful, but I love what I do; there is no doubt about that.

This is something I've sought though, as I said, since a young age. It is something I've experienced to the depths of my being, and it is something I long for.

I feel in a way that there are two ways to go, and it's been my experience as well. I am extremely knowledgible and proficient at what I do. I know that were I to devote full time to it, that I could make it very successful in time.

But I also know that though it has been a dream, it would be supremely unsatisfactory were that all I focused on. Material accomplishments are never fulfilling to the soul.

When I allow the spiritual component in, it likes to take over my life. I do have spontaneous experiences of non-duality, loss of self-identity, etc, even outside of proper meditation at times. My heart yearns to seek God/Śiva, and I know that this is true fulfillment.

But in no way is it because I am unsatisfied or somehow resentful of what I am doing now. Truly if this were not calling to me, I'd be wonderfully satisfied with what I am doing. My wife is being understanding enough to allow me to start my own business, and it is relatively successful already. I work a good 15 hours a day on it easily, but 99% of the time it barely registers as work. I hope I am clear.

These experiences of yours since age 13- can you say more about the
nature of them? I know it is like describing color to one born blind, due
to the inherently subjective nature of such, but sharing more may prove
helpful. Of course, the suggestion not to become attached to them
sprang first to mind

I've only become attached to them once, and the result was very bad. No, I am not attached to the experiences. I just see them as glimpses of truth, and I know that more will come.

As mentioned, they've been experiences of non-duality, of form and self-identification falling away into saccidānanda, and perfect joy taking their place, at least for a few brief moments of clarity. About two years ago, it was more or less my usual perception for a couple of months.

I had the first when I was 12 or 13, but not to the extent or intensity that they have been in the last two and a half years, but the nature of it was the same.

Even as a Catholic, as I mentioned in my other thread, I used to have spontaneous experiences like that, which at the time I did not know how to explain or deal with.

I hope I've explained well enough.

Again, please remember these are only the words of a stranger in a forum,
and one just as prone to errors and ignorance as any other...
may Maa carry you across the ocean of miseries

JAI MATA DI

I understand, though I think you've mischaracterized me. I hope things are clearer after this post. I appreciate your response.

Om Namaḥ Śivāya

[JaiMaaDurga]

Namaste Premāyaṇa,

My most sincere apologies for lack of clarity on my part-
to answer your "exception rather than the rule" question,
I was trying to say that those who have been called so
strongly that the stories of their deeds and words serve
to inspire countless generations to remember God, are
exceptionally rare; for every such a one, there are hundreds
of thousands of ordinary devotees. Yet, this is not to say
that such "ordinary people" are unessential:
the human tongue weighs an average of 70 grams, while
the human body weighs an average of 70 kilograms-
a body with no tongue cannot speak aloud properly,
but a tongue with no body cannot do anything..

In any case, perhaps I used the expression improperly in my
first reply.

Please accept my apologies for not making clear enough that
it was not to imply that anything about your character could
be found in the words that followed; it would be quite arrogant
and presumptuous for me to believe I could know or judge the
level of an individual's wisdom, based on a a few forum posts!

I wrote what I did from the perspective of considering that
since this the "New to Sanatana Dharma" section, there may be
those who read this thread who need less encouragement,
and more caution and reflection.. so, my general observation
was not aimed at you, but those that come here seeking to
find reinforcement or a "green light" for their flight from responsibility.

From what you have said, I do not see any hastiness or lack of
sincerity; if Lord Shiva is calling you, I am sure He will not lead you
on a path which results in harm- but best for me to refer you
to the knowledgeable Saivas here at HDF, and of course I encourage
you to read as much as possible the previous posts and topics, there
has been a great amount of wisdom and resources accumulated here
since HDF first began!

May you find that which you seek

JAI MATA DI

[Eastern Mind]

I guess I just want to make sure I seek God as I should, while making sure I am a responsible husband. Is this possible?

Vannakkam: I wish you well in this pursuit of knowledge. If you're familiar with the writings from Himalayan Academy, you know the distinction that is made between householder and renunciate. There is great duty in both paths, yet one is rarer than the other. Why?

It is because not all of us are totally ready for it. We can be close, get glimpses of deep inner knowledge, but just aren't quite there to try to live in that bliss strongly day by day.

I personally know several people that are in the same boat, so to speak. Many did not even hear of Hinduism or a renunciate path until after marriage. Such is the way of the west. So what happens? If you put too much time into this pursuit, in part you neglect your householder duty. Note I said 'too much time'. That is not to say some time should be allotted each day for personal sadhana, but not to the point where it neglects the family. I've seen that too. All three times it ended in divorce.

Fortunately we have future lives, and can pray for the opportunity to have the calling to monasticism and the opportunity earlier in life once we drop this body and get a new one. There is also the period of life called sannyas within the householder path (retirement, not in the western way, but taking into account the idea that we can practice going within full time) which we can prepare for.

Best wishes.

Aum Namasivaya

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namast�

Within kaśmir śaivism action ( work) and living the Self as a real experience is considered karma yoga i.e. the union with the Self while still in action. This is considered a wonderful thing. Other schools may see it differently.

A householder that is infused with the Divine and does his/her daily routine. Action and daily life is not pushed away but embraced.

The urge/desire for living the Self is admirable. Yet it is to become your nature your way of life. It is not the urge for an object or a thing. It is becoming comfortable with that way of Being, with that Self, that it begins to sink in ( stabilize). It is the notion of being easy about it - not a possession but a way of Being.

Yet one cannot pretend to be possessed of the Self, then one starts mood making and this is then a big charade of pretending...
it delivers one no where and serves no purpose.

iti śivaṁ

[Premāyaṇa]

Vannakkam: I wish you well in this pursuit of knowledge. If you're familiar with the writings from Himalayan Academy, you know the distinction that is made between householder and renunciate. There is great duty in both paths, yet one is rarer than the other. Why?

It is because not all of us are totally ready for it. We can be close, get glimpses of deep inner knowledge, but just aren't quite there to try to live in that bliss strongly day by day.

I personally know several people that are in the same boat, so to speak. Many did not even hear of Hinduism or a renunciate path until after marriage. Such is the way of the west. So what happens? If you put too much time into this pursuit, in part you neglect your householder duty. Note I said 'too much time'. That is not to say some time should be allotted each day for personal sadhana, but not to the point where it neglects the family. I've seen that too. All three times it ended in divorce.

Fortunately we have future lives, and can pray for the opportunity to have the calling to monasticism and the opportunity earlier in life once we drop this body and get a new one. There is also the period of life called sannyas within the householder path (retirement, not in the western way, but taking into account the idea that we can practice going within full time) which we can prepare for.

Best wishes.

Aum Namasivaya

Do you not believe it is possible for a householder to reach mokṣa? I've heard about several cases of it happening.

[NayaSurya]

Yes, every meal, every dirty sock...every tick i have to remove...every 6 a.m. breakfast.

All of it is service to Mahadeva.

Mahadeva is in the Beloved Eye of every person i see...so these meals...i make them as very fine as i can...and the stitches upon clothes become my finest.

Even working, this work is for Mahadeva.

He put you where you need to be to make progress upon your path...and so doing the work before you is exactly what will bring you closer to Beloved.

Hari om <3

[Eastern Mind]

Yes, every meal, every dirty sock...every tick i have to remove...every 6 a.m. breakfast.

All of it is service to Mahadeva.

Mahadeva is in the Beloved Eye of every person i see...so these meals...i make them as very fine as i can...and the stitches upon clothes become my finest.

Even working, this work is for Mahadeva.

He put you where you need to be to make progress upon your path...and so doing the work before you is exactly what will bring you closer to Beloved.

Hari om <3

Vannakkam: Indeed it is far more in the daily mundane (it only seems mundane) actions than it it is in philosophy or conjecturing about when moksha may be bestowed. There is no separation of religious activity versus non-religious activity.

Aum Namasivaya

[Eastern Mind]

Do you not believe it is possible for a householder to reach mokṣa? I've heard about several cases of it happening.

Vannakkam: What I believe doesn't really matter, but for the record, I believe it's possible, but rare. It would most likely only happen later in life when one has time to delve within.

But I do believe it is the ultimate destiny of all souls, so if we put reincarnation into the picture (and we should because its a core belief in Hinduism) then it's really no big deal when. Personally, for this lifetime, I'd be happy reborn into a country where Hinduism was more prevalent, and the family that takes me is full of love. I have no immediate goals for moksha, just to live day by day not accruing more karma.

I also distinguish between Self-Realisation (nirvikalpa samadhi) and moksha. Moksha, (release from the cycle) is just a natural ourcome of samadhi.

But I go with wiser souls, "To know it, you have to experience it." So I don't know much.

Aum Namasivaya