Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 35

Thread: Buying Meat for Others

  1. #1

    Buying Meat for Others

    Namaste,

    I know in the Manusmṛti it says:

    He who permits the slaughter of an animal, he who cuts it up, he who kills it, he who buys or sells meat, he who cooks it, he who serves it up, and he who eats it, must all be considered as the slayers of the animal. (5:51)
    I am transitioning to vegetarianism (successful for about a week now). But my wife is not vegetarian. She isn't sure if she will be, but for now she is not.

    What do I do if she wants to purchase meat? She likes lunch meat for instance, for sandwiches. Our funds are all combined into one bank account, so all money is equally both of ours.

    Help would be appreciated.

  2. #2

    Re: Buying Meat for Others

    Namaste,

    Anyone? Really looking for an answer about this.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    65
    Posts
    7,664
    Rep Power
    384

    Re: Buying Meat for Others

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~

    namast

    Quote Originally Posted by Premāyaṇa View Post
    Namaste,

    Anyone? Really looking for an answer about this.
    I have 3 offerings for your consideration.... I will put them in the next 3 posts, starting with this one.


    In the aṇusāsana parvan, section CXV ( or section 115) of the mahābhārata , yudhiṣṭhira asks bhīṣma-ji a few questions.
    He says, you ( bhīṣma) have informed me many times that the abstention from injury is the highest religion. Yet in sraddhas, however, that are performed in honour of the Pitris, persons for their own good should make offerings of diverse kinds of meat.
    • How can meat be procured without slaying a living creature?
    • What are the faults one incurs by eating meat?
    • What are the demerits one incurs who eats meat by killing a living creature? Or of him who eats meat buying it from others?
    Bhīṣma then says, Listen to me O' scion of the Kuru race, what the merit is that attaches to the abstention from meat.
    • Those high souled persons who desire beauty, faultlessness of limbs, long life, understanding, mental and physical strength, and memory should abstain from acts of injury.
    • The merit by a person with steadfastness of vow adores the deities every month in horse sacrifices is equal to him that discards honey and meat.
    • The seven rishis, the Valakhilyasm and the rishis that drink the rays of the sun applaud the abstention from meat.
    • Bhīṣma continues and says, Narada muni has said that the man who wishes to increase his own flesh by eating the flesh of other creatures meets with calamity.
    • The man who has eaten meat then gives it up acquires merit by such an act that is so great that a study of all the vedas or a performance of all the sacrifices cannot bestow its like ( or its equal).
    • The period of life is shortened of persons who slaughter living creatures or cause them to be slaughtered ( i.e. demand for meat).
    • One should never eat meat of animals not dedicated in sacrifices and that are slain for no reason.
    praṇām

    words
    • aṇusāsana - the brilliance of this word aṇusāsana parvan shows the great command of the language by vyāsa-ji ( also known as kṛṣṇa dvaipāyana )
      This word can be seen in a few ways:
      • aṇu+sā+sana : aṇu = finer +sā =knowledge + sana = presenting, gain, acquisition. Hence the section (parva) presenting finer knowledge.
      • anu + śasana : anu = after or afterwords + śasana = killing. Hence the section (prava) after the war.
    • Bhīṣma happens to be one of the twelve most knowledgeable people on dharma
    Last edited by yajvan; 09 August 2013 at 06:14 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  4. #4
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    65
    Posts
    7,664
    Rep Power
    384

    Re: Buying Meat for Others

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~

    namast

    Offer 2: From an earlier post in the week.

    In each case of manufacturing something is sold, and something is received. The manufacturer pays for the materials to make the coat, the transporter is paid to ship the product, the retailer pays the manufacturer for the product, the customer pays the retailer for the coat. Who paid the cow ? Debts (ṛṇa) are paid along the way, yet it is the cow that is the giver , no ? Actions are not performed in a vacuum. There is ṛṇa owed to the cow for all in the value chain. There is a connection there.

    iti śiva


    words

    • ṛṇānubandha = ṛṇa+anubhandhana or ṛṇa+ anu + bhandhana
      • ṛṇa = anything due , obligation , duty , debt ;
      • this word ṛṇaṃ (within one root of kṛ ) , is to get into debt
      • kṛ is an action , it is 'to make liable to' as one of its definitions. It also means to procure for another , bestow , grant ; to to form or construct one thing out of another
      • anubandha = binding , connection , attachment
      • bhandhana = binding , tying , fettering
    • kṛt = cultivated, done, result, accomplished, made
    Last edited by yajvan; 09 August 2013 at 06:11 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  5. #5
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    65
    Posts
    7,664
    Rep Power
    384

    Re: Buying Meat for Others

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~
    namast

    offer 3:

    This is the wisdom offered by vimalananda - not many know of him;
    He informs us on the use of meat on many levels.

    The saṃskṛt term for cow is 'go' (some write gau) and is defined as 'anything coming from or belonging to an ox or cow' i.e. milk, flesh, skin , hide , leather , strap of leather , bow-string , sinew.

    vimalananda-ji tells us of the negitive effects of consumption of meat/pork is on the mind. He tells us an additional definition of 'go' is 'an organ of sense' and 'the eye'. Hence 'go' also means a sense organ. ( This is confirmed within the Monier-Williams English to Sanskrit Dictionary)

    Via the consumption of meat one is more attracted to the world, to the offering of the senses - more attachment is driven by the foodstuffs taken in. One has more difficulty controlling their senses.
    The more violence used to obtain the meat for consumption , the more of this violence is transferred to the consumer.
    The more you will find yourself within / confronted by friction or discord within your surroundings. That is for some reason this consumption of meat ( via violence to obtain it) attracts violence to the end-user.

    There is much-much more to this, but that for now I think gets you to reasonable optics on how to view the notion of participation of meat.

    iti śiva

    1. vimala= stainless , spotless , clean , bright , pure + nanda = joy, happiness
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    bhUloka
    Posts
    251
    Rep Power
    344

    Re: Buying Meat for Others

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    Bhīṣma happens to be one of the twelve most knowledgeable people on dharma
    Praṇām,

    Pshh... It would be nice if you could provide some form of śāstra-pramāṇa to back up you statement.

    Just kidding, I know where you got that from.

    स्वयम्भूर्नारदः शम्भुः कुमारः कपिलो मनुः।
    प्रह्लादो जनको भीष्मो बलिर्वैयासकिर्वयम्॥०६.०३.०२०॥
    द्वादशैते विजानीमो धर्मं भागवतं भटाः।
    गुह्यं विशुद्धं दुर्बोधं यं ज्ञात्वामृतमश्नुते॥०६.०३.०२१॥

    My attempted translation:

    "O servants (bhaṭāḥ), we (vayam) twelve (dvādaśa), [Śrī Kṛṣṇa] and Śrī Brahmā (svayambhūr), Nārada Muni (nāradaḥ), Śiva (śambhuḥ), the four Kumāra-s (kumāraḥ), Ṛṣi Kapila (kapilo), Vaivasvata Manu (manuḥ), Mahājana Prahlada (prahlādo), Mahārāja Janaka (janako), Bhīṣma (bhīṣmo), Mahārāja Bali (balir), and Śukadeva Gosvāmī (vaiyāsakir), know (vijānīmo) these (ite, from ete) secret (guhyaṃ), unfathomable (durbodhaṃ), extremely pure (viśuddhaṃ) religious principles (dharmaṃ) of Bhagavān (bhāgavataṃ) [which] upon understanding (yaṃ jñātva) one gains/enjoys (aśnute) eternal life (amṛtam)" [Bhāgavata Purāṇa 6:3:20-21]

    In that same Purāṇa (ślōka 1:9:9?), Bhīṣma Pitāmaha is called the "greatest of the vasu-s" (vasu uttamaḥ), which may be a reference to the chapters at the end of the Ādiparvan which talk of Bhīṣma as an incarnation of Dyaus (also known as dyauḥ).

    However, there are quite a few statements he makes in the Mahābhārata which aren't exactly very dhārmika (which is to be expected, as it is such a large text). In the Anuśāsana-Parvan [which you mentioned earlier] Adhyāya 38, he makes the following remarks regarding Nārada's conversation with Apsarā Pañcacūḍa:

    अन्तकः शमनो मृत्युः पातालं वडवामुखम्।
    क्षुर धारा विषं सर्पो वह्निरित्येकतः स्त्रियः॥२९॥

    My translation: "The Lord of Death (antakaḥ, one of Yamarāja's epithets), the destroyer (śamano), death (mṛtyuḥ), the abode of nāga-s (pātālaṃ), the mouth (mukham) of a mare (vaḍavā/vaḍabā) which makes deep/stream-like (dhārā) furrows (kṣura), [and] the excretion (viṣaṃ) of snake-like (sarpo) fire (vahnir) thus (iti) all together (ekataḥ) are feminine (striyaḥ)." [Mahābhārata 13:38:29]

    यतश्च भूतानि महान्ति पञ्च यतश्च लोका विहिता विधात्रा।
    यतः पुमांसः प्रमदाश्च निर्मितस् तदैव दोषाः प्रमदासु नारद॥३०॥

    My Translation: "From when (yataśca) the five (pañca) great elements (mahānti) were created (bhūtāni); from when (yataśca) the creator (vidhātrā, lit. bestower) arranged (vihitā) the worlds (lokā); from when (yataḥ) the souls of men (pumāṃsaḥ) and women (pramadāśca) are formed (nirmitas), at that time (tad) alone (eva), O Nārada (nārada), were these [aforementioned] blames/faults (doṣāḥ) planted in women (pramadāsu)." [Mahābhārata 13:38:30]

    The above ślōka-s seem a bit misogynistic and almost seems to try to portray women as evil, which certainly isn't supported by the śāstras, so even though you stated that he is one of the most knowledgeable in regards to dharma, his nirṇaya was, at many times [as evident in the Mahābhārata] slightly flawed, which leads me to the conclusion that he, just like everyone else, must have gotten to that state [of viśuddha-jñānam] in part due to the kṛpā of Bhagavān.

    I realize that this post was certainly a bit off topic (as it has nothing to do with meat consumption), and I apologize for that. I just felt the urge to respond to that particular footnote, as there wasn't much clarification provided.

    Jaya Śrī Rādhe
    Last edited by Jaskaran Singh; 23 October 2013 at 11:17 PM.
    படைபோர் புக்கு முழங்கும்அப் பாஞ்சசன்னியமும் பல்லாண்டே
    May your pA~nchajanya shankha which reverberates on the battlefield, last thousands upon thousands of years...
    http://archives.mirroroftomorrow.org...anchajanya.jpg

  7. #7
    Join Date
    July 2012
    Age
    52
    Posts
    639
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Buying Meat for Others

    Quote Originally Posted by Premāyaṇa View Post
    Namaste,

    I know in the Manusmṛti it says:



    I am transitioning to vegetarianism (successful for about a week now). But my wife is not vegetarian. She isn't sure if she will be, but for now she is not.

    What do I do if she wants to purchase meat? She likes lunch meat for instance, for sandwiches. Our funds are all combined into one bank account, so all money is equally both of ours.

    Help would be appreciated.
    Namaste.

    That quote from the Manusmriti sums it up nicely, everybody who has a hand in butchering and selling and cooking an animal is just as much 'at fault' as the one who consumes it.

    That being said, you cannot actively stop others from doing whatever they want, as long as you have no direct hand in it and you 'lead by example'.

    If your wife wants to purchase meat, make sure it is pre-cooked and she uses her own utensils to eat it.

    Cooking meat in a pot that is reserved for vegetables is also sinful.

    Let her eat meat, but make her feel uncomfortable for doing so. Cook delicious veggie cuisine for her and give her a break from cooking.

    Introduce her to the wonderful world of tempeh.

    If she uses 'joint money' to buy meat, it doesn't matter then...at least you are trying to do the right thing and go the correct way and Bhagavan will see that.

    Aum Namah Shivaya

  8. #8
    Join Date
    July 2010
    Location
    The Holy Land - India
    Posts
    2,682
    Rep Power
    5154

    Re: Buying Meat for Others

    Namaste,
    Quote Originally Posted by Premāyaṇa View Post
    What do I do if she wants to purchase meat?
    Nothing.

    You are responsible only for your own sadhana. I don't see any need for you to try to restrict your wife or in any way make her feel bad about her dietary habits. Let her live life the way she sees fit. If your sadhana is strong enough, it will rub off with time and hopefully awaken her devotion to the divine, and that will lead to mending her ways on her schedule. Unless there is a spiritual awakening and a desire to give up certain things, forcing the absentations on oneself or on others is useless. It should come from within and that follows a person's internal changes. Unless the mind is ready, the tongue will not voluntarily give up its cravings. And if it is not voluntary, there is lot of undesired internal conflict and turmoil.

    Pranam.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    October 2012
    Location
    Bhaarath
    Age
    44
    Posts
    1,100
    Rep Power
    1488

    Re: Buying Meat for Others

    If you are practising vegetarianism and you pay (non vegetarian food items) restaurant bills out of professional compulsion or you end up tasting as a cook but don't Deliberately consume them do you SIN or NOT?

    I have taken vow in the name of my friend Shree Raama Chandra Prabhu but end up tasting it while cooking to verify its taste. I cook meat products as a part of a medication regime but don't swallow and brush my teeth after spitting. I don't know whether my friend will be angry but I don't have a choice.
    Anirudh...

  10. #10
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    65
    Posts
    7,664
    Rep Power
    384

    Re: Buying Meat for Others

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~

    namast

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    If you are practising vegetarianism and you pay (non vegetarian food items) restaurant bills out of professional compulsion or you end up tasting as a cook but don't Deliberately consume them do you SIN or NOT?
    The final decision is up to you... yet consider this. The notion of
    śaktiṃ dadāti ~ approximately means to enable. Specifically it means providing the energy (śaktiṃ) for gifting (dadāti).

    iti śiva
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Veggie eats meat: Reflections
    By Surya Deva in forum Vegetarianism
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03 February 2012, 09:00 AM
  2. Would you eat lab-grown meat?
    By ScottMalaysia in forum Vegetarianism
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: 04 February 2011, 03:48 AM
  3. Food and what we take in
    By yajvan in forum Vegetarianism
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 07 October 2010, 03:55 AM
  4. What to do in this situations?
    By kshama in forum Vegetarianism
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 13 January 2010, 05:12 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •