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Thread: Ramayana and Poetry

  1. #11
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    Re: Ramayana and Poetry

    [Now they switch sides and Swami questions while Sri Vijay Shiva answers. The following is prone to a lot of errors because of my lack of knowledge in music, telugu, some terms.]

    Swami: I have some questions also and I want to say that I know nothing about music. My father was a great singer and so was my entire family but somehow I could not learn it, I confess.

    [Note - Here we have to be careful . When Swami says He knows nothing or when people like me say I know a lot - these two should be eyed with suspicion.]

    Swami: Thyagarajar swami took birth and lived for Rama only. What has he told about Ramayana, the poem or about Rama in general?

    Sri Vijay Shiva: Thyagarajar used to do Ramayana parayanam [Kacheri, music concert] daily. We have this belief that he was Valmiki's avataram. The sage Valmiki did not attain peace after singing 24000 verses as He wanted to do kirtan among general audience.

    We have pramanas for this is in his kirtans. For e.g., in "SitamAmAyama" (???), he gives the list of all his relations - except valmiki. [Swami nods with interest and says: true true].

    Like this we have many evidences. Each of his kirtan will indicate some incident in Valmiki Ramayana. [He gives an example in nAdOpasana: with a usage of "tantri laya svarou" (?) and enquires if this comes in Valmiki Ramayana and Swami nods in approval. He also gives examples from sabri moksha, Rama and Ravana war to illustrate the same. He also points out to kirtan which describes the incident when Rama tries to convince Ravana to return Sita using - Sama, dhana, bheda, danda. As Sama - advising kindly, danam - giving Ayodhya in return, Assuring moksham to him as he had given to his brother, Vibhishana and finally about punishing him.]

    He has rendered all this into kirtans. And so, in each of his kirtans there is an exact reference to something in Valmiki Ramayana. His is a major contribution and that's why listening to his kirtan is same as listening to Valmiki Ramayana.

  2. #12
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    Re: Ramayana and Poetry

    Swami: Was Ramayana sung in Carnatic or Hindustani music? Why I am asking is because it is said: "pramanais tribhir anvitam" the 3 pramanas being: vilambit, drut, madhyam . I seem to have heard this in relation to Hindustani music.

    Sri Vijay Shiva: These 3 are indeed common for entire Indian music - be it carnatic or hindustani or any other. Vilambit means singing slow, madhyam - middle and durit - with greatest speed.

    The split b/w hindustani and carnatic has come only after mugal invasion. The existing music in North became Hindustani by Persian influence and the south version became carnatic. During the times of Rama there was only one music and there's no proof of any difference. That obviously must have been carnatic as there is no persian influence in the south.

  3. #13
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    Re: Ramayana and Poetry

    Swami: In Kacheri [music concert], is there a tradition to sing Valmiki or Kamba Ramayana verses also. If one does so, do people relish it?

    Sri Vijay Shiva: The custom of singing verses in kacheri has not yet come into existence still. Reason is because of deficiency that we don't know the verses. We get complete joy by singing Thyagarajar or dikshitar's composition and so, we don't have the need to render Valmiki or Kambar's verses
    .
    Swami: That means just like Rama, Ramayana itself has taken avatara in different forms. [Sri Vijay Shiva: Yes]

    Just like in Brahma lokam, 100 crore verses of Ramayana is sung, and that became 24000 as rendered by Sage Valmiki, 10000 by Kambar similarly the epic has been rendered into different Kirtans.

  4. #14
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    Re: Ramayana and Poetry

    Swami: I had this doubt for many days. When we do upanyasams [discourse/parayanam], we do it for an hour or more and people understand and relish nicely. But while singing, vidhwans do not explain the music but only sing and yet people relish it and sit spell-bound. How do you accomplish this?

    Sri Vijay Shiva: We have not accomplished this but instead music has done it for us. There is 4 amsas. Swara shuddham, layam (rhythm), tonal power, hridaya bhavana [feeling from heart]. Even if any two of the above are strong, we can bind the audience even for 4 hours and that's the power of music. Especially if you sing with meaning, definitely that becomes daiva ganam [Divine rendition] and as you say becomes a path to moksha. So, music is beyond speech.


    [Thus ends the conversations between the two great souls that was really soul-stirring]

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