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Thread: Meditation Dificulties

  1. #21
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    Re: Meditation Dificulties

    Regarding Machine, etc

    Namaste,

    Where science and logic terminates, spirituality begins. All those gross instruments can hardly produce any spiritual effect, at most it can give temporary boost.

    If you had been brain washed by continuous auto suggestion about Ganesha, and then if you see or dream about Ganesha then it can be concluded that it might be all psychological.

    However, upon no or little information about Ganesha, if you have some visions, dreams or felt spontaneous attraction, then it is not an illusion. It is reality.

    Intuitions are direct learning without understanding by logic. I have passed through this phase.

    I was ignorant about spirituality and did not feel any urge to visit temple, nor did I study anything related to spirituality.

    One day I felt attraction about Lord Hanuman. During those days, I was doing research on advanced ceramics / engineering / bio-ceramics.

    Then the image of Hanuman in samadhi used to appear, and even after repeated efforts to ignore, this image would keep floating in front of my eyes. Then I went to Nearby Hanuman temple. I did not knew what to chant, Rama Nama, which is dear to Hanuman or Hanuman Nama. I chanted both. What I was chanting was no proper mantra. I just chanted 5 times and left temple. After few days, the mantra would continue on it's own. One day, the mantra chanting was so powerful, I could not sleep. I could see image of Hanuman and the mantra would continue. I wanted to sleep and made every attempts, but they all failed. This lasted for 2 hours. I could not fight, as if my will has no effect. There as someone controlling my mind.

    Remember, during those days, no scriptural study, no proper chanting, no meditations, no japa. Just chant mantra 5 times. Still this effect.

    This cannot be illusion. I never demanded nor expected this to happen. I never imagined that this type of thing could actually happen. After some years in spirituality, my family members and relatives see a lot of positive difference. There was change in character and approach towards life. So there is definite positive change in me. This shows that those experience were not mental conditioning.

    One say say it is mental construct, when we expect certain thing to happen, not otherwise.

    I had many such experiences, in which I was very sick, barely able to sit, yet would be able to meditate for 1 1/2 hours easily. This happened when I was shifted to Advaita.

    What I mean to say is that you are not alone to have such experience and that they are not just mental constructs.

    Before 50 years mind was considered as great great great hypothesis. Now it's existence is accepted. We have a main steam medical profession dedicated to mind - psychology.

    I would ask you one thing, did you felt any spontaneous attraction for Ganesha.

    Science cannot even understand mind, new theories come everyday.

    It does not even accept that are there 4 more subtle bodies.

    People believe in ghosts (in west too), but they have problem believing in God.

    Be positive, step ahead in your spiritual journey. Make a start and rest will all follow

    Only thing important is to take spirituality seriously and not casually.

    Aum
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  2. #22

    Re: Meditation Dificulties

    Dear Indiaspirituality Amrut,
    a hypnotist can simulate such exotic experiences for you.

    Its ego which wants to claim hold of exotic experiences in the name of religion !


    Science need not understand mind or God Science can reject superstitions. Thats job done.

  3. #23
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    Re: Meditation Dificulties

    Quote Originally Posted by silence_speaks View Post
    Dear Indiaspirituality Amrut,
    a hypnotist can simulate such exotic experiences for you.

    Its ego which wants to claim hold of exotic experiences in the name of religion !


    Science need not understand mind or God Science can reject superstitions. Thats job done.
    Dear S.P.

    In hypnosis, you are not aware, while in spirituality, it is all focused on awareness . Here who is hypnotist?

    I understand about uprooting superstition. But when you have never thought about it and then a thing happens, it is a different issue. No one here is making anyone to forcefully drag into superstition. Science keeps changing. Laws and theories which were thought to be impossible are later on accepted e.g. Schrodinger's wave equation and that light has characteristics of both wave and particle.

    As I have said, I am a research guy, had regular interactions with Doctors. Even the president, conveyor, coordinator of international events and conferances believe in these things, had these experiences and are yet very knowledgeable people respected by all those in same (science) field. I am talking about IIT-Bombay, who are top brains.

    Though superstition has to be uprooted, care should also be taken that dharma has to be positively projected. These things are not uncommon to Indians, civilized, highly educated and intelligent Indians

    All I can say to Ashcooper is that have faith. This is not weakness, emotions are not weakness. Things will be clear as time passes.

    Try to google for Ganesha and Mudgala Puranas.

    Like Vaishnava-s believe that Krishna is supreme personality of Godhead, similarly, there are Ganapatya-s who believe that Ganesh is supreme personality of Godhead.

    Aum
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  4. #24

    Re: Meditation Dificulties

    Dear Indiaspirituality Amrut,,


    All I am saying is whats reject-able "Logically" is still in the "Domain of Logic" and not beyond it.

    Anything "Seen", Drshya ... is Mithya --- Sri Adi Shankaracharya. And this guy is not an IIT Mumbai guy

    More importantly I am not giving science any undue importance. In fact I would not call it science. Its inference ... logic, yukthi.
    Yukti yuktam vacho grahyam balad api sukadapi
    yukti heenam vacham tyajya vrudhad api, sukhad api

    [I just quoted from memory]

    A logically correct statement, accept it whether its from a kid or a bird. A logically incorrect statement reject it even if it is from an elderly person or sukha maharshi himself.


    That Drshya is mithya is very clearly established by shankara with sufficient logic and clarity.

    I am not worried whether its Ganesha or Siva or Vishnu.

    Please note that hypnotism can increase your "awareful-ness" as well.

    And more importantly ... since you are a researcher ... tell me ... is it the vision or his interpretation of the vision that's making it special ? Please tell me. A small kid of 2 years ... he sees Ganesha all around ... what does he say ? and i see, what would I think ? Is it my interpretation that's making the difference ? my preconceived ideas ? Please ponder.

    Love!
    Silence

  5. #25
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    Re: Meditation Dificulties

    Quote Originally Posted by silence_speaks View Post
    Dear Indiaspirituality Amrut,,

    All I am saying is whats reject-able "Logically" is still in the "Domain of Logic" and not beyond it.

    Anything "Seen", Drshya ... is Mithya --- Sri Adi Shankaracharya. And this guy is not an IIT Mumbai guy

    More importantly I am not giving science any undue importance. In fact I would not call it science. Its inference ... logic, yukthi.
    Yukti yuktam vacho grahyam balad api sukadapi
    yukti heenam vacham tyajya vrudhad api, sukhad api

    [I just quoted from memory]

    A logically correct statement, accept it whether its from a kid or a bird. A logically incorrect statement reject it even if it is from an elderly person or sukha maharshi himself.


    That Drshya is mithya is very clearly established by shankara with sufficient logic and clarity.

    I am not worried whether its Ganesha or Siva or Vishnu.

    Please note that hypnotism can increase your "awareful-ness" as well.

    And more importantly ... since you are a researcher ... tell me ... is it the vision or his interpretation of the vision that's making it special ? Please tell me. A small kid of 2 years ... he sees Ganesha all around ... what does he say ? and i see, what would I think ? Is it my interpretation that's making the difference ? my preconceived ideas ? Please ponder.

    Love!
    Silence
    Dear S.P.

    Adi Shankara is much more than Brahma Satya Jagat MithyA. I am a practicing Advaitin

    You will need to read his biography, Shankara Digvijaya by MAdhava VidyAranya Swami.

    People sticking to this half verse, fail to give answers to many questions.

    Life of saint is not different from his teachings

    According to Advaita, Only the last stage is Advaita Sthiti, and Advaita path is direct path, but not the exclusive path from the beginning to reach this state.

    If you stick to 'anything "Seen", Drshya ... is Mithya',then lots of problems arise in practical life. Even your own body is nothing but illusion, what are you going to do?, reject it, discard it? I am not body, says Shankaracharya.

    One has to rise from dvaita (duality) and not just logically conclude and do nothing to experience the ultimate state or 'just be'

    Do you know Madhusudan Saraswati, Sreedhar Swami (Shreedharan Swamin), Sayanacharya?

    Also note that upadesha-s are given from AdhikAra bheda. I hope you know ajAta vAda.

    Logic can derail us and take us in wrong direction. Who knows that 'my' logic is right and other logic is wrong. One has to study shastra-s and follow them. One has to follow life of saints.

    OP is not attached to or obsessed with any sampradAya, be it advaita or dvaita or Yog. Nor did he mentioned about anyone hypnotizing him, nor did he mentioned any kind of autosuggestion.

    There are e.g.s of many lives of saints who have seen Bhagavan in Person. SmaraNam ji can give quotation from purAna-s and other vaishnava granths, which are revered as authentic. All traditional paths are logical, thats why they are still existing.

    Though OP is not an IITan, he is not 2 year old kid either

    Paramacharya was just 13 when he was made 68th Shankaracharya of Kanchi Kamakoti peetham, highest title conferred to Hindu monk.

    Aum
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  6. #26

    Re: Meditation Dificulties

    Dear Indiaspirituality Amrut,


    Logic does not derail us ... its "attachment" that derails. When a person says "my logic is correct and yours is wrong" ... is it "logically" or "since its mine " ?
    Logic does not derail.

    On the contrary : Sruti-Yukti-Anubhavam are advised. The second one is yukti.
    More importantly Shankara advocated Sravana-Manana-Nidhidhyasanam. Sravana is fundamental. Thats why meditations like this wont work.

    You know what yoga vasishta says about this ?

    उपविश्योपविश्यैकचित्तकेन मुहुर्मुहुः।
    न शक्यते मनो जेतुँ विन युक्तिम्-अनिन्दिताम्॥ [Laghu yoga vasishta 28.126]

    By repeatedly bringing the mind back to One-pointedness, it cannot be conquered unless one is equipped with faultless reasoning [scriptural reasoning in the context]


    I know you understand this. Basically I distract people from all sorts of mental imaginations in the name of religion. And I know this would not be accepted by many ! Because meditation is not about a mental imagination. Meditation is not even about merely repeating some mantra.
    Meditation can involve japa ... but repeating is not meditation [converse case not true].

    One has to become meditative first. Then meditation automatically follows.

    This is not meditation. With these sort of ideas people later complain "I find it difficult to meditate" ! meditation is something fantastic and ever available for all. All these ideas only block meditation ! Why is a person uncomfortable that he is not seeing Ganesha now or Siva now ? Is that meditation ? Earlier he was "expectation - less" and now he has more expectations ... is that the result of meditation ? Please see !

    Meditation is reveling as yourself ... everyone can do it. Its available ... provided one drops some of these ideas. I know some friends who say "I have been meditating but don't have any experiences" ! Do you see that ? Earlier he did not have this complex ... now , thanks to his practise, he developed a new complex ... friends, this is not the right way of doing it!

    I am sorry for being so blunt ... but its not about my ideas or your ideas ... its about things as they are! Thanks to wrong ideas about meditation, its converted into an achievement or a means to pamper ego.

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  7. #27
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    Re: Meditation Dificulties

    Namaste,

    I understand

    Is Yog Vasistha and Ashtavakra Gita for beginners?

    If I talk from ajaata vAda, from shastra-s, then who is the one who meditates?

    All these things (idol worship, experiences of divinity, etc) helps. They need a proper guide. Uddhava Gita talks about idol worship. It talks about Jnana Yoga.

    Every upanishad and Gita, even PrakaraNa granths of Adi Shankara require qualifications. First chapter of Gita is Arjuna Vishad Yoga. I hope you must be aware, since you are quoting from Yog Vasistha.

    Without passing through the vishada, can you directly jump to Jnana kand, chapter 13?

    Does not Gita talk about worship to personal God (12.6) ? Does not gita, Uddhava Gita Sveteshwatara Upanishad and Katha Upanishad talk that path of Jnana is difficult ?

    and who is going to decide whether your meditation is in right direction?

    I myself practice advaita, and follow the same teachings of mithyA, drig-drishya, etc

    But what suits to me, does not necessarily apply to all.

    Did you experience dispassion? do you have all 4 qualities, as mentioned in Tatva Bodh and Vivek Chudamani? and who decided that you qualify for Advaita. Just because advaita is logically accceptable to you?

    btw, is not your body an Illusion? what are you going to do about it?

    It's not about being blunt. It is about proper understanding. Please read and understand Adi Shankara fully, without which no point in discussing.

    Do you know that all 4 matha-s have temples. Jagannath idol was found and reconsecrated by Adi Shankara.

    He repaired many temples, reconsecrated Sri Yantra of KamakhyA devi temple at Kanchi Kamakoti.

    What about hymms dedicated to a particular deity. What about Panchayatna puja, shanmata?

    I am not negatively speaking. I only request you to fully understand Adi Shankara.

    There is so much literature that one gets easily lost in it. Mind and ego gives suitable e.g. and quotes to defined what we do. We need a Guru who can guide us.

    Aum
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  8. #28

    Re: Meditation Dificulties

    Dear Indiaspirituality Amrut,

    Lets not classify people as "Beginners" , "advanced" etc. How does it help ?

    We are neither superior to others nor inferior. The right way of looking at the situation is what is needed: proper perspective ... that's what is needed. And all these ideas are counter productive!

    My body is Mithya ... who denies that ? What is to be done about mithya ? nothing ... plz don't give it too much importance. That's all. This question "what are you going to do about your body", itself shows gaps in understanding my friend. This is not to belittle you or prove any superiority.


    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  9. #29
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    Re: Meditation Dificulties

    Quote Originally Posted by silence_speaks View Post
    Dear Indiaspirituality Amrut,

    Lets not classify people as "Beginners" , "advanced" etc. How does it help ?

    We are neither superior to others nor inferior. The right way of looking at the situation is what is needed: proper perspective ... that's what is needed. And all these ideas are counter productive!

    My body is Mithya ... who denies that ? What is to be done about mithya ? nothing ... plz don't give it too much importance. That's all. This question "what are you going to do about your body", itself shows gaps in understanding my friend. This is not to belittle you or prove any superiority.


    Love!
    Silence
    Namaste,

    Do you agree that upadesha-s are given from adhirakAra bheda?

    No one is proving superiority. It is about purity of mind.

    All I want to say is advaita is not the only path.

    We can keep talking and this would never end.

    OM
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  10. #30

    Re: Meditation Dificulties

    I would also like to add that I am not saying prayer / temples etc are not needed. Neither am I saying that one should not have Bhakti!!

    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

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