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Thread: Drugs in scriptures

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    Drugs in scriptures

    Namaste all,
    I was wondering if anywhere in the scriptures drugs like hallucinogens, psychedelics or entheogens are mentioned which will give spiritual experience of oneself with Universe or Brahman?

    I know about Soma Ras being mentioned in the Vedas. Like it are there more?
    ॐ महेश्वराय नमः

    || Om Namo Bhagavate Rudraya ||

    Hara Hara Mahadeva Shambo Shankara

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    Re: Drugs in scriptures

    Quote Originally Posted by realdemigod View Post
    Namaste all,
    I was wondering if anywhere in the scriptures drugs like hallucinogens, psychedelics or entheogens are mentioned which will give spiritual experience of oneself with Universe or Brahman?

    I know about Soma Ras being mentioned in the Vedas. Like it are there more?
    Namaste.

    I am curious as to why you would even want to know such things? What use is it?

    It has been a very long time since I've read any scriptures, so I have forgotten if there are any references to drugs in them.

    I do know that Soma is mentioned in the Rig Veda, but I have taken the word to mean 'the nectar of immortality being produced due to the churning of the Cosmic Ocean' rather than any kind of hallucinogenic drug.

    Such interpretations are only man-made (usually by those who indulge in the consumption of mind-altering substances themselves as a form of...justification).

    Similarly, Lord Shiva is said to have been 'reportedly' a user of cannabis and datura stramonium, which some claim is to have been 'written in a scripture somewhere'. Maybe it was, but if it has, I have never read it.

    I often wonder why it is, that if God can attain altered states of conscious naturally, through samadhi, what use is there in taking psychoactive substances?

    Even Baba Ram Dass (Richard Alpert) gave LSD to his Guru, Neem Karoli Baba who stated it had no effect on him.

    I have smoked cannabis before (many times, in fact - I was addicted to it). What I know from my personal experiences, is that drug usage can show you where the door is, but cannot take you through it.

    Those people who have said they've had mystical experiences whilst on drugs, have only witnessed what can be and not what is. They have been shown the destination, but they haven't reached anywhere. They will forever be looking at their tour map, without even taking a step. They will forever be 'on the outside, looking in'.

    Even though drugs may not be mentioned in the Scriptures (although there may be obscure scriptures that may make mention of them), you can take what I say as being 'gospel'.

    Aum Namah Shivaya
    Last edited by Necromancer; 14 July 2013 at 12:17 AM.

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    Re: Drugs in scriptures

    I'm a proponent of shamanism and was simply looking for any mentioning of hallucinogens in Indian scriptures. I never experienced before but read a lot on them so very curious!
    ॐ महेश्वराय नमः

    || Om Namo Bhagavate Rudraya ||

    Hara Hara Mahadeva Shambo Shankara

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    Re: Drugs in scriptures

    Namaste.

    Okay, I have just looked all over the internet for you and apart from Soma (which nobody can actually clarify what kind of drug that is), Hindu Scriptures don't mention drugs or alcohol at all.

    The closest I could get to, is the Narayana Sukta, which a part of it (it wasn't mentioned which part of it) said something along the lines of 'anything ingested that detracts one from God is a sin'.

    As a former shaman myself, I suggest forgetting about these 'Indians' and reading up on some Carlos Castaneda.

    Also, I used to like Terence McKenna, Gordon Wasson, Robert Forte, Timothy Leary, Roland Fischer and I cannot remember who else now.

    That's the best I can do for you.

    Aum Namah Shivaya

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    Re: Drugs in scriptures

    Thanks Necromancer.
    I don't follow anything till I'm quite convinced. I'm more spiritual and very less religious. I've not read much on Carlos Castaneda but some other Shaman authors. I've noticed Shamanism and Buddhism have many things in common.

    I want to know why you gave up being Shaman?
    ॐ महेश्वराय नमः

    || Om Namo Bhagavate Rudraya ||

    Hara Hara Mahadeva Shambo Shankara

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    Re: Drugs in scriptures

    Quote Originally Posted by realdemigod View Post
    Thanks Necromancer.
    I don't follow anything till I'm quite convinced. I'm more spiritual and very less religious. I've not read much on Carlos Castaneda but some other Shaman authors. I've noticed Shamanism and Buddhism have many things in common.

    I want to know why you gave up being Shaman?
    Namaste.

    Let's just say that whenever you experience something due to the ingestion of psychedelic substances (I have eaten magic mushrooms about a dozen times as well), there's always a doubt in the back of your mind, whether it was a bona-fide experience or a drug-induced one. That doubt means it wasn't real anyway...so you always answer your own question.

    When you experience such things naturally (and discount 'flashbacks'), there are no excuses or doubts...you cannot attribute that experience to anything more than your Sadhana and the grace of God.

    I still smoke pot on the very rare occasion (about 4-5 times a year), but I do that out of boredom and for relaxation...when I am not in the position nor mood to meditate. I don't seek to use it as an aid to meditation anymore, due to all those reasons I mentioned above.

    I also don't think to myself 'Shiva uses this, so it's okay for me'. He abandons me whenever I smoke pot and for weeks after that until it's out of my system.

    It was just a phase I went through as a Wiccan...a phase I just moved/grew out of.

    Aum Namah Shivaya

  7. #7

    Re: Drugs in scriptures

    Quote Originally Posted by realdemigod View Post
    Namaste all,
    I was wondering if anywhere in the scriptures drugs like hallucinogens, psychedelics or entheogens are mentioned which will give spiritual experience of oneself with Universe or Brahman?

    I know about Soma Ras being mentioned in the Vedas. Like it are there more?
    I think research into and use of these substances were a logical part of spiritual affairs. They must have used them in a variety of ways for different purposes and have had deep knowledge of them. This knowledge was obviously kept secret as we know little of it now, just like the scriptures were kept secret. There was a clear realisation that in the hands of the wrong people they would have disastrous effects on society.

    You may be interested in the research of David L. Spess who has recently done new research into Soma. By using new techniques he came to the conclusion that different kinds of Soma were made of Water Lilies and Lotus plants. I would think that is not unlike seeing the great importance that is given to these plants.

    Read the excerpt of his book: Soma, the Divine Hallucinogen

    Chapter 3. The Identity of Plants Used As Soma
    Although Western interest in soma began more than two hundred years ago, no detailed study of the facts has ever been presented. Even R. Gordon Wasson's research on soma, though very useful, is considered incomplete today. We are in a better position to solve the riddle of the soma plant and soma drinks now than ever before. Both Avestan and Rg Veda studies have progressed since Wasson's landmark book Soma was published in 1968. In addition, the study of psychoactive and medicinal plants has advanced significantly. Major botanical breakthroughs on both the Avestan haoma plant and the Rg Veda soma now make it possible to draw some conclusions about the identity of the soma plant. (page 25)

    The Psychoactivity of Indian Nymphaea and Nelumbo Plants
    Although a number of plants were used in the Rg Vedic soma ceremonies, there are two genera of indigenous Indian plants, the Nymphaea and Nelumbo, that stand out among the rest as being used to prepare soma drinks in the Rg Vedic soma ceremony. Nymphaea plants are known as water lilies, while Nelumbo plants are the true lotus plants. When the genera are used together in my discussions I sometimes refer to them as lotus plants.

    ... Some of these plants were certainly known as soma and are actually called soma in Sanskrit texts. Despite what has been stated in various articles and books about the nonentheogenic effects of Nelumbo and Nymphaea plants, some Indian varieties of lotus and many water lilies do contain a variety of alkaloids and other compounds that are entheogenic.

    Here we can mention only a few studies of the psychoactive aspects of these plants as they pertain to our current subject of soma as a divine hallucinogen. Certain indigenous varieties of Indian Nymphaea plants, as well as Nelumbo plants are psychoactive and can be visionary and auditory entheogens when the sap or juice of the plant, and certain other parts, are prepared properly. These two genera can also be shown to have psychoactive properties that match those of soma on the Rg Veda.

    The compounds found in certain Nymphaea species are known to cause excitation, ecstatic states, luminous visionary and auditory hallucinations, narcotic sedation, and other psychoactive effects. The experiences are dependent upon the dosage, preparation, and parts of the plant used. The compounds responsible are found in the flowers, sap, nectar, stems, rhizomes, and possibly the leaves. The flowers of certain Nymphaea species have been shown to induce ecstasy states similar to those of the drug, 3, 4-methylene-dioxymethamphetamine (MDMA), popularly known as "ecstasy." (pages 27-28)
    What is wrong with using drugs or reading the holy scripture to extract wisdom is what is wrong with trying to appropriate things in general. It is our desire that makes us want to acquire the results without walking the path. That is the essence of all adharm. Like people want to be rich without producing things of value themselves, or want to take power by force in stead of letting people grant it to them. In the same way people want to acquire wisdom and higher experiences the quick and easy way. What they thus acquire is not the same nor does it bring the same bless.

    The stream that flows out of the womb of knowledge has colour nor taste, it is a cool clear stream of water, it takes on the colour that is mixed in it, it takes on the taste that is mixed in it. If you mix poison it will be poisonous. If you mix nectar, it will be nectar.

    With drugs it is the same, the effect they have on the mind depends on the mind itself.

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    Re: Drugs in scriptures

    Thanks Necromancer and Avyaydya
    ॐ महेश्वराय नमः

    || Om Namo Bhagavate Rudraya ||

    Hara Hara Mahadeva Shambo Shankara

  9. #9

    Re: Drugs in scriptures

    Namaste,

    Necromancer, I would love to hear some elaboration on this if you do not mind sharing:

    He abandons me whenever I smoke pot and for weeks after that until it's out of my system.
    Thank you.
    Om Namah Shivaya

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    Re: Drugs in scriptures

    Quote Originally Posted by fem_phoenix1109 View Post
    Namaste,

    Necromancer, I would love to hear some elaboration on this if you do not mind sharing:



    Thank you.
    Namaste.

    I'm sorry it took a while for me to reply to this one.

    I didn't realise this thread had any more replies - until I replied to another thread in this section and saw this.

    Even though I smoke dope occasionally, I know I shouldn't be doing so. However, 'knowing' and 'doing' are two different things.

    I also 'feel' that Lord Shiva really doesn't like/approve of me doing it but that has not deterred me....yet.

    Thus, the connection I feel to the Lord is lost during the times I am high and until the drugs are totally out of my system.

    I mean, when I am stoned, I can convince myself I am close to the Lord, but that's only the drugs talking - it's not the 'real me' (like when somebody says 'I love you' when they are drunk, but wouldn't say it otherwise).

    If I am going to lose all my inhibitions, I would much prefer if it were done naturally and then I cannot blame intoxication for that.

    Lets just call it a 'guilty conscience'.

    I hope this explains it to the best of your understanding.

    Aum Namah Shivaya

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