India - Unity between the states...

[Viraja]

Vannakkam: We have had a very simplified version of this here in Canada for 100 years, with Quebec. The French (rightfully) resent the British control, and they are in the minority. If you go to Quebec, it is quite possible, even likely, to encounter a person who knows English but will not speak to you ... French only. We've had 2 or 3 separation referendums, the closest was 49% or so. There was one time when the government had to impose emergency measures, and had the locals been armed, we would have had a civil war.

It hasn't been so bad lately, but there are individuals who still hate. Generally they are the older crowd. My father's generations was horrible. Racial slurs on the French were in abundance where I grew up. So as individuals, it helps to enjoy the diversity, rather than criticize it.

In India, the only time I noticed it was in Rameswaram, when my driver had a difficult time finding a parking spot near the temple as he has KA plates. But I also think Rameswaram is a good model. As a pilgrimage spot, many states have their own hostels, etc. and everyone gets along.

I truly wish there was more celebration of diversity. I do think time will help, if leaders set an example, and individuals see it from a wiser level. That's whats happened here in Canada.

Aum Namasivaya

I've always heard that the French are very committed to their language, such that when you visit France, you must know French or you may have a tough time as people are not as easy to converse in English. I don't know how far this is true, but that's what I have heard.

And, to be committed to one's nation and national language and weigh it superior to others can be deemed patriotic. But, in India, we see that though we all should be united, because given diversity, there is also equal number of factors that are common, but people don't value this common factor but exaggerate the differences alone and look upon other people with hatred. For example, all of India are very family oriented, the joint family system is still valued, the currency is the same, people have same goals - earn for the family, educate the children well, etc, and most importantly, the religion of the majority is the same. Apart from the language, the only main difference I can see is the food. But there is so much intolerance on the basis of just a few differences.

Sometimes I feel that unless Indian people give up their differences and act as one, India cannot become one of the supreme powers ever, though Indians have the capability and intelligence to make India become one!

Thank you for your thoughts. They added value to the conversation.

[Sudas Paijavana]

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[Viraja]

Sudas ji,

Sometimes we would not know, but somebody who observes may be in a better position to evaluate if we are discussing appropriately. I thought as Believer ji noted, my remark about Kannadigas and Aishwarya Rai, etc, may not be that tasteful, so I removed it.

As for the questions:

1. Did Maharashtra (a few years ago) have a movement a few years back trying to kick out North Indians?

Why so? Maharashtra itself is North India, right? I'm not aware of this incident, but long time ago, there was a major attack on Tamilians in Maharashtra, I'm talking about more than 10 yrs ago.

2. Does Kerala consume a lot of beef? And, are the Nambudiris safe in Kerala, especially being around such adharmic practices? Why should these Brahmins be around people that consume the cow when they themselves do not and can have a better religious freedom in Gujarat?

I don't know about this (that Keralites consume cow's meat), however what I remember is when I was little (about 14 yrs of age), my family visited Kerala, and in some temples there, they did not like us conversing in Tamil. For example, someone upon walking alongside to us, heard us talking in Tamil, took out his 'angavastram' and shook it with disgust, muttered some curse and walked away. At another time, at a hotel, the server boys kept giggling at us when they were not serving us food. Memories that I still possess...

3. Did we proclaim any ethnicity to be superior to another, meaning did we say Gujaratis and Tamils are superior?

No. (But we should converse about India very carefully as even some innocent remarks might offend someone else, as we all are from different parts of India).

Regards,

Viraja

[Sudas Paijavana]

Namaste,

1. Did Maharashtra (a few years ago) have a movement a few years back trying to kick out North Indians?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_at...in_Maharashtra

1a. Why so? Maharashtra itself is North India, right? I'm not aware of this incident, but long time ago, there was a major attack on Tamilians in Maharashtra, I'm talking about more than 10 yrs ago.

• After the Independence of India in 1947, regional administrative divisions from the colonial era were gradually changed and states following linguistic borders were created. Within the Bombay Presidency a massive popular struggle was launched for the creation of a state for the Marathi-speaking people. In 1960 the presidency was divided into two linguistic states, Gujarat and Maharashtra. Moreover, Marathi-speaking areas of the erstwhile Hyderabad state were joined with Maharashtra. Mumbai, in many ways the economic capital of India, became the state capital of Maharashtra. On one hand, people belonging to the Gujarati community owned the majority of the industry and trade enterprises in the city. On the other, there was a steady flow of South Indian migrants to the city, and who came to take over many white-collar employments.
  In 1960 Bal Thackeray, a Mumbai-based cartoonist, began publishing the satirical cartoon weekly Marmik. Through this publication he started disseminating anti-migrant sentiments. On 19 June 1966, Thackeray founded the Shiv Sena as a political organisation. At the time of its foundation, the Shiv Sena was not a political party as such.
  The Shiv Sena especially attracted a large number of disgruntled and often unemployed Marathi youth, who were attracted by Thackeray's charged anti-migrant oratory. In its early days, the Shiv Sena followed an anti-South agenda and its slogan was "Pungi Bajao, Lungi Bhagao" ("Blow the flute, and drive the lungis or South Indians away"). Shiv Sena cadres became involved in various attacks against the South Indian communities, vandalising South Indian restaurants and pressuring employers to hire Marathis.

from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiv_Sena#Origins

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam: Here in the west there is not quite so much tension, yet we still see differences come out. More the similarities, but some differences too.

We even have umbrella groups like this one http://www.indiacounciledmonton.com/associations.php in my city. I believe they are doing good work.

Aum Namasivaya

[Viraja]

Vannakkam: Here in the west there is not quite so much tension, yet we still see differences come out. More the similarities, but some differences too.

We even have umbrella groups like this one http://www.indiacounciledmonton.com/associations.php in my city. I believe they are doing good work.

Aum Namasivaya

Its really good to have an association for the sake of Indians abroad.

Out here, the first generation of naturalized citizens originally from India still have the same behavior and beliefs which they had while in India, I believe. For example, the friend who shared the inflammatory posts on the Cauvery issue on Facebook lives here in USA.

When there are lesser people of their own community or there be a threat of some sort, people behave and get along well, if not, there isn't still much unity between Indians from different states.

(I have another example too, that of my former boss.. ).

[Viraja]

Thank you for the information on Maharashtra, Sudas ji. btw, I enjoyed reading your post, very funny and informative too.

[Believer]

Namaste,

We all see our strong points and overlook the shortcomings. Here is an example, which by no means is meant to show anyone in a bad light, but since some people are giving themselves a big pat on the back....

Once Sam Manekshaw was invited to speak at a state function in Gujrat. As is customary, outside of the Hindi belt, speeches are normally given in English. So Sam started his speech in English. He was interrupted and the audience requested him to speak in Gujrati. He paused, collected his thoughts and said, "I have had the pleasure of commanding Punjabis and they taught me Punjabi, I had Bengalis under my command and I learnt Bengali from them, I was in charge of Tamil soldiers at one time and they taught me Tamil, but during my entire career I have never met a Gujrati soldier who would have taught me Gujrati. So, I apologize for not being able to fulfill your wish." There was pin drop silence after that.

So, as you can see, we can pat ourselves on the back for being the 'best' Indians, but others see us differently.

Many decades ago three Gujratis went to Delhi and hired a taxi to see places. As the sikh driver drove them around, they exchanged all the sikh jokes among themselves. The driver kept listening but did not react to the demeaning jokes. At the end of the day, when they paid the driver and were about to depart, the driver gave them back a one rupee bill. Astonished they asked what was that for. 'Give it to the first sikh beggar you come across in India', came the reply. And those Gujratis still have that one rupee bill with them.

The purpose of these stories is to tell people that all ethnic groups have shortcomings. We should downplay them and bring positive things into the forum and build each other up rather than ridicule other ethnic groups. Politicians get mileage out of making us hate each other. We should not play into their hands and act stupid. We should work towards making India one country and strengthen it. Just because it is the 'canteen' section, does not give us a license to talk trash.

Pranam.

[Viraja]

That's well said, Believer ji, thank you.

Actually I was somewhat upset over what my friend had sent, ofcourse, she has a lot of friends that are Kannada too and she may not be thinking about me, but in general, it would be a good practice, be it Facebook or otherwise, to not pass on offending sentiments about other states in India - like in TN we lack water which Karnataka has in plenty from the seasonal rainfall and for asking for water, we get ridiculed so badly.. So that was my point, I felt that there was some bias beyond just the water problem behind these messages..

Like you said, if we all are mindful of our shortcomings, we should really be good. Thank you for a good message.

[Believer]

Namaste,

Actually I was somewhat upset over what my friend had sent,.........

When you are upset, is the least desirable time to run to the forum to make a post. Take a cup of tea and relax. Think about why things happened that way.

1. Politicians are least interested in the welfare of people. If Karnatka has Congress Govt. and TN has Jaylalitha Govt., there is no incentive for Karnatka to give TN more water and center, run the Sonia has no interest to intervene. They would be secretly laughing at the problems of TN people and would feel free to punish them for not voting for them. The fact that there are shortages in TN and farmers are committing suicides is the least of their concerns.

2. We get a perverse joy out of making somebody else the butt of our jokes and the object of our scorn. Sikhs have been made the butt of Indian jokes. They don't go around making posts here about the mistreatment from their countrymen. You just have to learn to live with the warped sense of pleasure some people get through insulting others.

3. You might think that Tamils are the saints of India, but the people of Karnatka might resent them for taking away so many software jobs in their state. They might secretly hate Tamilians for being overbearing and thinking of themselves as the representatives of all of South India.

4. The non-brahmin Tamils have always thought of Northerners as some kind of colonizers and the Tamil brahmins as their agents. They hate ALL Northerners, they hate Hindi language and they hate Hindu religion. That undercurrent of hatred exists even today. So the entire population of TN does not consist of saints.

I am sure if you thought about it hard enough, you would have come to same conclusions that I have regarding the treatment of TN at the hands of Karnatka. The politicians make us hate each other, and we also have built in prejudices against other ethnic groups. The solution is for educated people to resist the temptation to be taken in by the self serving politicians and also to be tolerant of other ethnic groups in the interest of the greater good of the country. Grow a thicker skin and don't get all wound up over a cartoon, however insulting it might seem. Enough teaching on my part.

Pranam.