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Thread: Indispensability of Tamil?

  1. #11
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    Re: Indispensability of Tamil?

    Quote Originally Posted by philosoraptor View Post
    Ideally, having the original text transliterated into either Sanskrit or English, followed by meaning in English. If not both, then at least meaning in English.
    Hmm....my suggestion would be to look for Pravachanas in the language you understand. If you know telugu, then you should find sufficient.

    The thing with Divya Prabandhams is that there is superficial meaning and then there is a very indepth meaning. Superficially the translation may say that AndAL is calling Her gopi friends for a bath etc, while the indepth meaning is very profound.

    Great acharyas like PVP say that what the different Alwars acheived with about 4000 verses summarizing Rig, Yajur, Sama and Atharva, AndAL acheived in just 30! The great Vedantin Bhagavad Ramanuja who knew in and out of all shAstrAs, was also named "ThiruppAvai Jeeyar" because His Mind was always immersed in ThiruppAvai. He had composed the Bhagavad Gita, Sri Bhashya etc meditating on these verses only.

    Let me stress again that this Divya Prabandham is not just devotional hymn but dravida Vedam much like the Vedas and Valmiki Ramayana etc. It has the same status and even the order of words matter.

  2. #12
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    Re: Indispensability of Tamil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sudas Paijavana View Post
    I heard there is a huge difference between Brahmin Tamil (that of Shri Iyengars, Iyers, etc.) and Tamil (the Tamil dialect of non-Tamil-Brahmin groups)....is this correct?
    Namaste. Yes there's a huge difference between the Tamil dialect. The brahmin (iyer or iyengar) dialect in general is soft and full of respect. Actually even words vary a lot - House is called "Veedu" in general but "Aathu" or "Aaham" by iyengars. What other calls Rasam we call "sAthamadu"; pongal- akkAravadisal. You may think that it is not a big deal but tamils are taken aback when they hear what they are not accustomed to. Also Iyengar tamil has a bit of sanskrit mix as well.

    While Alvars have used pure and excellent Tamil, the Acharyas used Manipravalam tamil that is a mix of tamil and sanskrit. Only because we give the Divya prabandams an equal status to Vedas, and it is a pure excellent tamil, the tamil politicians have not been able to attack our tradition much.

    This difference is fading thanks to the media. When a devotee of any caste embraces SriVaishnavam his language and mannerism undergoes a drastic changes and becomes more iyengarish.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sudas Paijavana View Post
    I also heard that the government in Tamil Nadu has secretly made it sure that Brahmin-Tamil dialect is frowned upon....is this true?
    No. They are openly making sure LOL. Jokes apart, the Tamil Brahmins are always mocked at by the media these days. In many movies, the hero looks and speaks very crass while the heroin has to be from a traditional Brahmin family. Because of their tolerance only the Brahmins have survived.

    However the modern Brahmin boys and girls have started to feel that it is cool to not behave like a brahmin. Boys are proud of their drinking and eat meat inspite of them being Brahmin. Girls don't want their would be husband to be traditional and think that they are losers. That is the order of the day. Irrespective, Brahmins still retain a mimimum decent standard behavior in Tamil Nadu and can be easily recognized.

    Apologize for the derail.

  3. #13
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    Re: Indispensability of Tamil?

    Quote Originally Posted by philosoraptor View Post
    On that note, does anyone know of a good translation of Divya Prabandham and, in particular, Thiruppavai, into English for the linguistically challenged such as myself?
    There's a huge collection of pAsura~NgaLai (with English translations at the bottom) on dravidaveda.org, such as this one from thiruma~NgaiAzhvAr's periya thirumozhi.

    Quote Originally Posted by philosoraptor View Post
    I wouldn't mind having it transliterated in Sanskrit script, but I would really prefer to get an English translation.
    For transliterations, you could check acharya.org (or download the PDF's from here).
    Regarding the pronunciation, you could listen to recordings on Ramyagiri's Youtube channel and download them using keepvid (although I'm not sure whether or not the latter is legal, ).
    படைபோர் புக்கு முழங்கும்அப் பாஞ்சசன்னியமும் பல்லாண்டே
    May your pA~nchajanya shankha which reverberates on the battlefield, last thousands upon thousands of years...
    http://archives.mirroroftomorrow.org...anchajanya.jpg

  4. #14

    Re: Indispensability of Tamil?

    I pray that the Lord grants me birth in my next life in the home of a tamil-speaking family so that I can grow up to learn and recite the Divya-Prabhandam of the Alwar saints
    I hope you get to enjoy it in this life itself. However, in case you do not have a recording, I would suggest listening to begin with, as opposed to reading a transliteration (which may become tedious). I know that the Shri Venkatachalapati temple of Pittsburgh released DVDs of the entire recitation by scholars from India. There would be others...

    You may be aware but there are quite a few Sanskrit compositions too by scholars in the tradition of Shri Ramanujacharya and they are available on you tube (eg. Raghuveera Gadhyam, Stotra ratnam etc..) and there is prapatti.com for texts in various languages.



    Only because we give the Divya prabandams an equal status to Vedas, and it is a pure excellent tamil, the tamil politicians have not been able to attack our tradition much.


    ... Spot On. In my opinion, pure Tamil is also related to Sanskrit but the intersection is the least among the Indian languages. As remarked, the best examples of pure Tamil are deep, devotional works (both Shaiva and Vaishnava) and thus the politicians are hampered. In fact, consider some of the much touted, semi-secular Tamil works (by the politicians) - Manimekhalai, Silappadhikaram, Kundalakesi - all are easily recognized Sanskrit words! Thus, their effort is hampered at the start. The symbol of the leading party that opposes Sanskrit (in their words) is "Udayasuryan"... what more can we say!

    Jai SitaRam

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    Re: Indispensability of Tamil?

    Our tradition gives importance to three languages - Tamil, Sanskrit and Manipravala. Swami Vedanta Desikan has even composed in Prakrit.

    But I believe Sanskrit will be enough for beginners. The tamil pAsurams are mirrors of the sanskrit veda as per our tradition and if one understands the vishishtadvaitic interpretation of sanskrit vedanta, it will be enough for now.
    [CENTER][COLOR="Black"][COLOR="Red"][COLOR="DarkRed"]No holiness rules over my freedom
    No commands from above I obey
    I seek the ruin, I shake the worlds
    Behold! I am blackest ov the black

    Ov khaos I am, the disobediant one
    Depraved son who hath dwelt in nothingness
    Upon the ninth I fell, from grace up above
    To taste this life ov sin, to give birth to the "I"[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR]

    [B]~ "Blackest Ov the Black" - Behemoth.[/B]

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P-JdwtK1DY[/url] [/CENTER]

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    Re: Indispensability of Tamil?

    I heard recently that Sri Nammazhwar translated the entire sAma Veda into Tamil.

    I also heard that even to this day, in all temples, those who recite sama veda in Tamil walk ahead in front of those who recite vedas in Sanskrit. (I presume this must in TN, India only ).

    What do members think of the above?
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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