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Thread: Genuine Questions on Advaita

  1. #51
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    Re: Genuine Questions on Advaita

    Namaste Smaranam ji,

    I am extremely sorry for derailing this thread.

    Had you mentioned that though you have the thread in advaita, you are not confining to the views of Adi Shankara, things would have been very different. Also the title of thread, about genuine questions on Advaita confused me. It would be better if this thread was posted in another section, say, philosophy section.

    There would be no advaita lessons, which you did not liked. Had you not quoted HLK, I would not have given long response explaining adhyaropa apavada.

    Ontology, logic, etc is true for all philosophies. What I understand that, we can talk about logic, but from advaita, precisely Adi shankara Advaita POV, then I would not have repeatedly stressed on (Shankara) advaita and it's final goal.

    It is now that you are saying that you do not wish to confine yourself to one system of thought.

    I stepped up and explained concepts, because I personally respect you, without any hidden motives.

    Later posts were said from lighter mode. I will take care not to talk in lighter mode to you in future, if at all there is any interaction between us.

    However since you are so angry that you do not wish to communicate, I withdraw and unsubscribe from this thread.

    Sorry for the trouble and derailing. I take back everything I have said.

    Jai Shri Krishna

    Amrut
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  2. #52

    Re: Genuine Questions on Advaita

    Namaste Amrutji,

    Things don't happen in vacuum you see.

    I stepped up and explained concepts without any hidden motives.
    I know you are a very straightforward person and there is no question of hidden motives such as trying to brainwash another's views etc. Such a thing never occured to me at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality Amrut View Post
    There would be no advaita lessons, which you did not liked. Had you not quoted HLK, I would not have given long response explaining adhyaropa apavada.
    It is not about not liking the lessons. They were irrelevant. HLK's quote is a good example. What was my comment on it?
    Quote Originally Posted by smaranam View Post
    (Feedback - The statements in red give rise to ambiguity/conflict at least for learning readers. They speak an advanced language which is best understood internally in parA not externally in vaikharI because vaikhari vANI gives rise to six blind men and the elephant )
    Did I say anywhere that I did not understand the statement? "best understood internally in parA vANI" was an observation. I was cautioning HLK against telling this to new people (and also to devotees who don't care for Advaita on the other thread under ISKCON) - see latest 'svadharma' thread by Bramhan - same point.

    Perhaps due to my poor choice of words, you assumed I had not understood it, said, "read the statement and think coolly" and then wrote 3 pages.
    Were those pages of any use to the questions at hand?
    Moreover, did you even stop to find out if the OP had studied Advaita in the past or where the OP was regarding this knowledge, whether they could relate to it, and whether they had ever been in samAdhi?

    At least the premises should have been a clue to the diciphering of shAstra - regarding AtmA and Bramhan. I did not even write the word 'jiva' in the premises. Or jivAtmA and ParamAtmA or any signs of duality. I kept it honestly advaitic, abiding by the forum rule.

    The discussion was meant to take off from the questions themselves.
    I know majority of my posting is VaishNav bhakti related, and that is what made you assume that when I say AtmA I mean jiva; that I wear pink bhakti glasses ; that I am a blank-slate kindergartner in Advaita.

    First I ignored it, but it just continued through the thread without really addressing the questons - except with "We advaitins don't think like this. This is the final station"

    Then when you said the Self cannot sign "Your True Self" because they had not yet understood Advaita, and insisted that the Self should come to the vyAvahAric plane to thank another - the Self was being addressed, although you thought you were addressing smaranam.
    and...I don't know what happened. Something took over to make post #40. Anyways, that was not an "angry post" , it was an observation standing apart - although the decision was made to let you know what was happening.

    Ontology, logic, etc is true for all philosophies. What I understand that, we can talk about logic, but from advaita, precisely Adi shankara Advaita POV, then I would not have repeatedly stressed on (Shankara) advaita and it's final goal.
    It is now that you are saying that you do not wish to confine yourself to one system of thought.
    Yes, but in the general section, the VishishTadvaita and achintya-bheda-abheda would take over and I already knew their answers. The point is, shastra - at least on the surface - points to ONE AtmA.
    Again, I already knew what is the final goal of advaita. I wanted to know what happens afterwards or what the implications are, but it is OK now, I kind of have the answer and/or do not have the questions anymore.

    Jai Shri KRshNa
    Last edited by smaranam; 26 August 2013 at 06:10 AM.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  3. #53

    Re: Genuine Questions on Advaita

    KRshNa does equip the devotee with the "tools", just in case they are needed. You see, He cannot stand conflicts in the heart of the Beloved (perhaps becs its a shared heart?) so He supplies the skills to
    resolve the conflict. It happens so fast - before the mind realizes what just happened.

    Years ago I would get angry at myself for not being able to talk back when people hurt me or behaved unfairly. You see the ego was a lot more immature then. No matter how much I decided to "be on guard next time" when the previously offending person came along, I would forget the past and be friendly, and they would trap me again. I met a zillion of those. But years later, I thanked KRshNa for NOT giving me those weapons - in the form of the ability to talk back right away on the spot. Becs I know how much I would be wounded by hurting them. In layman terms we call it empathy. In spiritual terms today we know - it is becs your AtmA/IshTa lies in their heart.

    Funnily enough, now He has made the mind assertive. And to think I tell Him make me Your pen, Your flute... but He feeds this soul instead - never to leave a corner creased.

    And here, cases of the past where the other person is deliberately trying things do not apply here at all. Yet, something else got triggered - patience, as mentioned above.
    Last edited by smaranam; 14 August 2013 at 03:25 PM.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  4. #54
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    Re: Genuine Questions on Advaita

    Namaste,

    It is true in my case that at times, 'I see only that I want to see'.

    I have already forgotten the issue. It is all blank here. Only blurr memory remains and I need to stress to recall.

    Be assured that there can be mata bheda, but not mana bheda

    All is well here Today is a new day.

    I came back to collect some of my notes from this thread. Thats how landed on this page, else I had already unsubscribed from this thread.

    If you would like to continue, please create a new thread or ask admin to clear the mess. I have already taken backup of what I need form this thread.

    Jai Shri Krishna.
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  5. #55

    Re: Genuine Questions on Advaita

    Namaste Smaranam,

    Following is your question,

    "1. When the individual is Self-realized fully, NO ignorance, No vikAr (blemishes, faults), No shadripU (six vices of kaam krodh lobh moha matsar), beyond guNa, NO ego, NO sense of individuality, identity, me you they,
    is this not what Brahman is? So then, the purest of the pure one as above, are they supposed to be that very same Brahman as in omniscient-omnipotent-omnipresent and when manifest, are necessarily with 8 major and 18 siddhis including Ishitva?
    Why or Why not?
    "

    The rest of your questions is same, well up on realisation of Brahman there are no special powers acquired, the reason is that there is a slight distinction between Brahman and Ishwara, I am no doubt Brahman but I cannot be Ishwara. It is like the clay mouse and the clay elephant, although both the clay mouse and clay elephant are both clay, there is definitely a difference with respect to the size of the elephant and the size of the mouse. Both the elephant and mouse can claim to be clay but the mouse cannot claim to be the elephant. Similarly both Ishwara and me can claim to be Brahman, but I cannot claim to be Ishwara.

    Due to this distinction inspite of Brahma Jnana I cannot have Ishitva. This differentiation is made due to the inscrutable power called Maya. It is not real nor is it unreal.
    I won't be able to explain the concept of "Maya" in this post. But just understand that this differentiation is due to Maya and Maya is not separate from Brahman. It is the power of Brahman.

    You next question is on Amsa avatar Purnavatar and so on ?

    All Avatars are within Maya since Ishwara is Brahman + Maya. Now the Jiva Samuha or bulk of Jivas is the mind of Ishwara, hence when the bulk of Jivas are actually praying to the Lord or Ishwara. The whole mind of Ishwara is on a single resolve and this resolve comes down as an Avatar. in such a case since all Jivas have willed for something to come, this resolve is what comes as an Avatar, in this case a Purna Avatar. For Amsa Avatar and so on, is dependent on the demand, if the bulk of the Jivas have a certain demand for that demand we get different Vyuha Avatars and so on.

    Although I hate getting into the theoretical part of Advaita, I have answered you the questions since you were telling that these were genuine questions.

  6. #56
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    Re: Genuine Questions on Advaita

    Dear.,

    Sorry for interrupting.

    If elephant and rat are not essentially same, then what you say is right. If elephant and rat are supposed to be essentially same, an elephant can say i am rat as well ! ( as here its not elephant which will say i am rat but the clay that will as it is clay which is both elephant and rat)

    Just trying to confuse you. Take it easy





    Quote Originally Posted by Sriram257 View Post
    Namaste Smaranam,

    Following is your question,

    "1. When the individual is Self-realized fully, NO ignorance, No vikAr (blemishes, faults), No shadripU (six vices of kaam krodh lobh moha matsar), beyond guNa, NO ego, NO sense of individuality, identity, me you they,
    is this not what Brahman is? So then, the purest of the pure one as above, are they supposed to be that very same Brahman as in omniscient-omnipotent-omnipresent and when manifest, are necessarily with 8 major and 18 siddhis including Ishitva?
    Why or Why not?
    "

    The rest of your questions is same, well up on realisation of Brahman there are no special powers acquired, the reason is that there is a slight distinction between Brahman and Ishwara, I am no doubt Brahman but I cannot be Ishwara. It is like the clay mouse and the clay elephant, although both the clay mouse and clay elephant are both clay, there is definitely a difference with respect to the size of the elephant and the size of the mouse. Both the elephant and mouse can claim to be clay but the mouse cannot claim to be the elephant. Similarly both Ishwara and me can claim to be Brahman, but I cannot claim to be Ishwara.

    Due to this distinction inspite of Brahma Jnana I cannot have Ishitva. This differentiation is made due to the inscrutable power called Maya. It is not real nor is it unreal.
    I won't be able to explain the concept of "Maya" in this post. But just understand that this differentiation is due to Maya and Maya is not separate from Brahman. It is the power of Brahman.

    You next question is on Amsa avatar Purnavatar and so on ?

    All Avatars are within Maya since Ishwara is Brahman + Maya. Now the Jiva Samuha or bulk of Jivas is the mind of Ishwara, hence when the bulk of Jivas are actually praying to the Lord or Ishwara. The whole mind of Ishwara is on a single resolve and this resolve comes down as an Avatar. in such a case since all Jivas have willed for something to come, this resolve is what comes as an Avatar, in this case a Purna Avatar. For Amsa Avatar and so on, is dependent on the demand, if the bulk of the Jivas have a certain demand for that demand we get different Vyuha Avatars and so on.

    Although I hate getting into the theoretical part of Advaita, I have answered you the questions since you were telling that these were genuine questions.

  7. #57

    Re: Genuine Questions on Advaita

    Namaste Grames,

    It is fine, I am ok to live with interruptions, as I told you before I am absolutely fine with you having your assumptions.

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