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Thread: Genuine Questions on Advaita

  1. #21

    Re: Genuine Questions on Advaita

    Namaste

    After skimming the cream from the milk, we have the above, and getting ghee from the cream, we end up with this:

    aMsha avatars are not the direct descent of Ishwara. Ishwara instead chooses a body and then enters into it.

    This need not be a general rule for all aMsha. However, what this means is, jiva-bhUta are evolving. What makes them living and sentient is the AtmA or Bramhan. Now, when Ishwar has a sankalpa - resolve at a point in time, He looks around for an appropriately evolved entity - "kAyA" - not the sthUla - gross body, but sUkshma - subtle, kAraN - causal, linga - marker/identifier sharIra - body.
    Evolved enough for His sankalpa. What does this mean? The entity has to be Self-realized of course, so a jnAni dovetailed to the infinite Bramhan, but not necessarily a perfect yogi tending towards either YogIshwar or Yogeshwar. This explains realization + less than 16 kalA. This is how a prior evolved jnAni becomes a partial avatAr.

    Narayana was born as Krishna with full 16 kalA-s. Rama was born of 12 kalA-s and parashurama of 6-7 kala-s.

    Yes, but these are direct descent of NArAyaNa, all transcendental, including Matsya, KUrma, VarAha. The case above does not apply here.

    The bhAgvat says in this regard:
    SB1.3.28
    ete cāḿśa-kalāḥ puḿsaḥ
    kṛṣṇas tubhagavānsvayam
    indrāri-vyākulaḿ lokaḿ
    mṛḍayanti yuge yuge
    All of the above-mentioned incarnations (KumArs, Matsya KUrma VarAha VAman DattAtreya, ParshurAm, RAm... ) are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord ŚrīKṛṣṇa is the original Personality of Godhead. All of them appear on planets whenever there is a disturbance created by the atheists. The Lord incarnates to protect the theists.

    It is said that Mind is the cause of body i.e. Mind creates body. Here the mind of Ishwara is all powerful and purest.
    Hence the cosmic mind, which is all powerful and purest of the pure, can create any body and can take any of the 16 kala-s.

    Certainly. However, regarding the Cosmic Mind of Ishwar.
    Since Bramhan is ONE without a second, is this Bramhan-Mind also ONE without a second? i.e. Are there other Bramhan-minds (of Bramhan-jnAnis) as satelites of/ parts of / aMshas of this Cosmic Mind of Ishwar ?

    MY understanding is, There are - for the sake of the devotees, but all of them are tightly interconnected as ONE Cosmic Mind. This is their sAyujja. It is either
    A] the same avatAr re-appearing over time, as in case of DattAtreya (ShripAd Vallabh, NRsaMha Saraswati, Swami Samartha, Gajanan Maharaj, Sai Baba, ...), OR,
    B] simultaneously present like a network-graph with the Cosmic Mind in the center and a path from each jnAni's Bramhan-mind to the Cosmic Bramhan Mind (of Ishwar).

    Like this: siddhAtmA1 <-----> Parameshwar <--------> siddhAtmA2

    This is also how unspoken (parA) communication happens between Guru and disciple. Disciple may not, but Guru knows. Like this: Guru <-----> Parameshwar as antaryAmi <----------> Shishya (disciple)
    This is why, many disciples speak of their Self-realized spiritual master as their antaryAmi directly, and consider the Guru as BhagvAn/Ishwar.

    _/\_

    om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya
    Last edited by smaranam; 30 July 2013 at 01:55 AM.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  2. #22

    Re: Genuine Questions on Advaita

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality Amrut View Post
    Namaste Smaranamji,



    I will reply in detail later. Just a few quick points.

    According to Tatva Bodh, Jiva and Atman are different

    Jiva in plain words is the indwelling spirit

    the attachment of body and the feeling that 'I' am body is the one that produces bondage. Such a bound soul is called Jiva-atman or simply Jiva.

    Jiva is defined by Adi Shankara in Tatva Bodh and other prakaraNa granths as the one who associates itself with karma and fruits of karma, experiences pleasure and pain by associating with mind, body, intellect and ego. Jiva travels from one body to another and is trapped in the cycle of birth and death.

    Atman is Sat-Chit-Ananda same as Brahman.

    If you look at Sv Up. verse 5.8 just the verse before you quoted i.. 5.9, irt says

    Of the size of a thumb, but effulgent like the Sun, the Jiva possesses both volition and individuality. It is endowed with the qualities of the mind and heart (Atman). Therefore it is seen as another entity, small as the point of a goad. 5.8

    The individual soul (Jiva) is extremely subtle like the point of a hair divided and subdivided many times. Yet it has the potential for infinity. He is to be realised (as none other than the paramatman). 5.9

    Same is said in Shiva Gita 10.26 (as in Sv. Up. 5.9)

    Later in 10.37 and 10.38 it says that without Knowledge or before merging with Brahman, Jiva is not destroyed.

    After merging with Brahman, jiva is destroyed.

    Now the question is Jiva or Jiva-bhAva? It has to be found out

    According to Advaita, Brahman never really divides itself, as it voids it's definition
    It cannot transform into anything. Brahman is unchanging.

    So it is Brahman under to illusion of mAyA (the illusionary creative power) called Ishwara appears to create this universe. This is the theory of Advaita, as I have understood.

    So jiva-bhava is false superimposition upon Brahman under the false notion of Ego. 'I' associates with panch-mahabhuta.

    Ishwara has upAdhi-s. It takes AdhAra of vidha mAyA, but is mAyA's swami and so not bound by it.

    Jiva has upAdhi-s of a-vidhA mAyA i.e. panch mahAbhuta

    If you remove both upAdhi-s what remains is NirguNa Brahman.

    In your 1st point, there is a a priori i.e pre-assumption that jiva is separate, which in reality is not. Hence no question of merging. Only wrong notion is realized.

    Now regarding confusion of jiva, ishwara, Brahman.

    there are 3 types of shruti-s -

    bheda shruti-s: they describe jiva nad ishwara / Brahman as completely different
    a-bheda shruti-s: They talk about oneness of Jiva nad Shia i.e Brahman
    ghaTak shruti-s: They connect bheda nad abheda, like ishwara is antar yAmi.

    Now regarding the quote by H-L-K

    Please read it very slowly with cool mind.



    The only consistency according to GauDapAda, Adi Shankara and later on re-discovered by Swami Sacchidanandendra Saraswati is adhyAropa apavAda

    It is false Superimposition (adhyAropa) Followed by Retraction (apavAda)

    As HLK has said, first attributes are attached and then contradicted later on in the same shruti.

    e.g. Attribute of witness is added and then it is said that it cannot be reached through mind, eyes, speech, etc.

    The concept of witness is introduced since the objective is to indicate that 'I' am not any object of observation. But later on, even the attribute of being a witness is removed, as to see something, there has to be another (an object that can be seen and oberver).

    Hence Brahman cannot be a witness also. So the false attribute of being a witness is also negated by saying that Brahman is beyond 5 senses and mind.

    It is not possible to describe Brahman, hence it cannot be taught positively. No attribute can be given to describe it. It shows that all attributes are also false and they also has to be negated. Hence the only method to explain Brahman is negative approach or false superimposition and retraction or negation of false super imposition.

    In gita same thing is observed in 13.13 and 13.14 (note in some version version 1 in chapter 13 is not found, and was not commented by Adi shankara. Hence the number in followers of Ramanuja might by 13.14 and 13.15)

    ज्ञेयं यत्तत्प्रवक्ष्यामि यज्ज्ञात्वाऽमृतमश्नुते।
    अनादिमत्परं ब्रह्म न सत्तन्नासदुच्यते।।13.13।।

    13.13 I shall speak of that which is to be known, by realizing which one attains Immortality. The supreme Brahman is without any beginning. That is called neither being nor non-being.

    सर्वतः पाणिपादं तत्सर्वतोऽक्षिशिरोमुखम्।
    सर्वतः श्रुतिमल्लोके सर्वमावृत्य तिष्ठति।।13.14।।

    13.14 That (Knowable), which has hands and feet everwhere, which has eyes, heads and mouths everywhere, which has ears everywhere, exists in creatures by pervading them all.


    सर्वेन्द्रियगुणाभासं सर्वेन्द्रियविवर्जितम्।
    असक्तं सर्वभृच्चैव निर्गुणं गुणभोक्तृ च।।13.15।।

    13.15 Shining through the functions of all the organs, (yet) devoid of all the organs; unattached, and verily the supporter of all; without quality, and the perceiver of qualities;


    did you notice - neither being nor non-being. Then attributes of omnipresence -- then retraction of these qualities as devoid of all organs, without quality.

    Please refer to shankara bhasya from link in my signature 'Gita Super Site' in verse 13.14. Select both hindi commentary (Sri Harikrishandas Goenka ) and english commentary (Swami Gambhirananda)

    another e.g. to make things easy.

    न हि कश्चित्क्षणमपि जातु तिष्ठत्यकर्मकृत्।
    कार्यते ह्यवशः कर्म सर्वः प्रकृतिजैर्गुणैः।।3.5।।

    3.5 Because, no one ever remains even for a moment without doing work. For all are made to work under compulsion by the gunas born of Nature.

    यथैधांसि समिद्धोऽग्निर्भस्मसात्कुरुतेऽर्जुन।
    ज्ञानाग्निः सर्वकर्माणि भस्मसात्कुरुते तथा।।4.37।।

    4.37 Just as burning fire turns fuel to ashes, O Arjuna, so does the fire of knowledge turn all Karma to ashes.

    Is this not contradictory? So first something is said, then it is retracted or negated.

    To a matured sadhaka, shastras say that all karmas are destroyed. All means prArabhdha, AgAmi and sanchit. So even prArabhdha is destroyed. Gita also says that one cannot be free from any karma and so one should practice nitya karmas.

    Upadeshas are said from adhikAra bheda.

    Now you got he point as why in Sv. Up. even though the size of jiva is given, it says, it has to be experienced as infinite.

    I hope the theory of Advaita is understood.


    Regarding bhakti, without bhakti, one cannot under Jnana. Bhakti is the foundation.

    If you notice the reason or incident of spontaneous composition of Bhaja Govindam, you will understand why it was created and why it is necessary to surrender to Ishwara (God with form)

    I will write about avatar and jnani later, but one word sums up, it is I am Brahman and not I am Ishwara.

    To sum up

    • Jiva and Atman are different in Adviata
    • bhakti is important for mental purification (bhakti not from Vaishnava POV)
    • Bhakti means an attitude of non-difference with Brahman
    • False Superimposition followed by Retraction is traditional teaching according to Swami Sacchidanandendra Saraswati.


    Aum

    Amrut


    I see that you have a very clear understanding of the philosophy. And you dissect the philosophy like an expert. I appreciate all that you share which is an exhaustive research. However, when I meditate on God, I see Atman. I see Brahman meditating on himself through atma. I see the universe in atma. I hope that this does not contradict the philosophy.

  3. #23

    Re: Genuine Questions on Advaita

    What do you folks have to say about Jiddu Krishnamurti, he says, if you read books and live accordingly then you are a "second hand" human being. Because, you live according to what "others" have thought... One has to set everything aside (scriptures, books... etc) and think on his own, to see the 'truth'.

  4. #24
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    Re: Genuine Questions on Advaita

    Quote Originally Posted by jthomasnaz View Post
    I see the universe in atma. I hope that this does not contradict the philosophy.

    Dear jthomasnaz,


    'I' and Atman are not Two( अहम् आत्मा aham ātmā) ,


    Likewise is the inseparability of the Universe and Atman; there lies an ineffable secret relation of mutual dependence between them. Love
    ॐ इदम् न मम
    be just l we happy

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    Re: Genuine Questions on Advaita

    I will try to talk in brief. I may not reply on quote-2-quote basis but will try to cover as many points as possible.

    *Regarding Siddhis,it is said that all Jnani-s are purNa or full of shakti.Some exhibit some not, all according to divine plan.I do not know if they have all asTasiddhi.

    **Notice the slight contradiction. Jnani is pUrNa, full of shakti, but may not have ashTa-siddhi? Also, it implies removal of ignorance brings Brahman back to being Brahman, hence 100% purity makes shakti walk up to Him, but it is not so simple or black-and-white - as seen next.

    As I have said, from Advaita POV, avatarvAda is not given importance, as the final destination is turiya, in which no mAyA exists, just pure consciousness. Hence I took the help of Yoga and logic.

    First, we should separate kosha-s from jiva.

    So a jnani, is not born a jnani. The jiva-bhava is destroyed, mind is destroyed, all desires ar destroyed. Sri Ramana Maharshi also said that mind of Jnani is Brahman itself.

    In evolutionary process in kosha-s may or may not develop. But the 'I' is detached from kosha-s and merges in Brahman loosing it's individual identity.

    Hence I said that they may or may not exhibit 8 siddhi-s.

    But the catch is, all siddhis are connected with mind. Hence technically they have full energy at their disposal. Again, the word Bhagavan indicates 'all powerful, capable of doing anything'.

    But in turiya state, there is no second. After 21 days, for most people body drops says Sri Ramakrishna. If there is any wish, then one has cannot go beyond mind, as Bhagavan in Gita says that all vAsanA-s are inside mind. Hence the logic of free will from Advaita POV after Self Realization is not supported. For us, sAdhaka-s, it is a dead end, we reach a point of no return. Jnani like snake casts off his skin (5 kosha-s)

    But if God wishes, then Jnani-s consciousness can again be brought down. Now we enter dual plane. God gives false ego / functional ego / pseudo ego to retain individuality. This is very rare. There is a concept of Jivamukta, but Sri Ramakrishna says they are very rare and most people do not return back.

    To explain the unequal distribution of power in Jnani-s and various avatAra-s, the concept of qualitatively same and qualtitatively different has to be adopted.

    As I have said, kosha-s and their evolution might be different. Kosha-s are always dead. The only thing that makes them to function is Jiva, the consciousness, which is technically Brahman.

    The difference between dead body and living body is the soul, Jiva or Brahman. Eyes are instruments, even dead body has instruments but not vision.

    For a sAdhaka, it is an ascend, while for Avatar of Ishwara, it is a descend.

    If Bhagavan brings a Jnani back to duality, then he must retain duality, at the same time be aware of his true nature.Hence qualitatively same, qualitatively different Here comes the differences of power distribution. It depends upon the capacity a body can handle. On other note, Bhagavan will make the body capable of doing work which Bhagavan wants to do for the good of all. Jnani-s return for good of all. If you have noticed, even though a Jnani may speak of non-duality, he is doing as per command of Bhagavan. This is duality. It has to be, as in pure non-dual state, there is no mAyA, no world, no second to help.

    I guess this helps us to understand difference of power distribution, capacity and potential of Jnani-s and avatAra-s. Again, free will is given, as observed. In turiya state, Sri Ramana Maharshi, Sri Ramakrishna and Paramhansa Hariharananda all experienced the breathless, pulseless non-dual state. So in this state, that we know as nirvikalp samAdhi, no question of any 'vikalp' (change).

    To advaita sAdhaka-s this non-dual state is the central focus and not to have free will after Self Realization nor to transform this world and serve Bhagavan. This approach is necessary to enter into non-dual state. Being absolutely neutral, unconcerned and anything & everything, without any will or desire, one actually becomes a perfect 'instrument' of Bhagavan to do any work. A jivan mukta is a true bhakta, a true karma yogi, as there is no desire, no want. So there is no resistence, it's total surrender absolute surrender. Advaitin never thinks of even doing seva nor gets trapped in dayA says rAjA Janak in AshtAvakra Gita.

    I hope you are getting my point as to why this approach is needed. It is left to Bhagavan to stop moksha, or bring back to duality and assign some work. Bhagavan may give some ability, give some bhava like dayA, etc, It is not the choice of Jnani. Mind of Jnani is like plain water. Bhagavan adds whatever colour he wants to add and play accordingly.

    To a Jnani, work of body has been done. Time to cast off the body. Get it. Such is the attitude of Advaitins (like me ).

    Earlier I said,

    Miracles of saints like Raghvendra Swami, Sai Baba, Ranchoddas ji Maharaj, etc are unknown after their leaving of their physical body.

    You can pull my ear. I forgot to add the word 'not' before unknown

    Miracles of saints like Raghvendra Swami, Sai Baba, Ranchoddas ji Maharaj, etc are not unknown after their leaving of their physical body.

    This need not be a general rule for all aMsha. However, what this means is, jiva-bhUta are evolving. What makes them living and sentient is the AtmA or Bramhan. Now, when Ishwar has asankalpa - resolveat a point in time, He looks around for an appropriately evolved entity -"kAyA"- not thesthUla- gross body, butsUkshma- subtle,kAraN- causal,linga- marker/identifiersharIra- body.

    Evolved enough for His sankalpa. What does this mean? The entity has to be Self-realized of course, so a jnAni dovetailed to the infinite Bramhan, but not necessarily a perfect yogi tending towards either YogIshwar or Yogeshwar. This explains realization + less than 16 kalA. This is how a prior evolved jnAni becomes a partial avatAr.
    Ishwara may transform a weak body into strong enough and equip it with powers that are needed. Again concept of qualitatiely same, qualitatively different has to be taken

    Since Bramhan is ONE without a second, is this Bramhan-Mind also ONE without a second? i.e. Are there other Bramhan-minds (of Bramhan-jnAnis) as satelites of/ parts of / aMshas of this Cosmic Mind of Ishwar ?
    Please do not mix NirguNa and SaguNa Brahman. NirguNa is one, in case of SaguNa Brahman with relation ot this world and jiva, again, the concept of qualitatiely same, qualiitatively different has to be taken

    Else if even the power is equally distributed, then how is it possible that one person can fight 10 persons? This is true for Jnani-s and avatAra-s too.

    Sri Ramakrishna says that,

    Jnani is like a big wooden log. At most 3-4 people can hang onto it and cross the ocean of samsAra (world), while an avatAra is like a big boat. Many people can comfortably sit and cross the ocean of samsAra.

    Sri Ramakrishna says, Guru is middleman. He takes bhakta to Bhagavan


    Conclusion and Summary:

    1. So NirguNa brahman is pure consciousness the true non-dual state without mAyA and hence no question of any difference of power distribution. There is no second.
    2. Answers regarding the doubts about free will after Self Realization, unequal power distribution, unequal capacity, etc has to be explained from either Yoga or from 'qualitatively same, quantitatively different' POV.
    3. Jnani or an advaitin does not think as to what will happen after Self Realization. There can be nothing beyond it. IF at all Ishwara wishes to bring Jnani down to dual plane or in other words, wishes to work through the body of Jnani, it is left to God and Jnani has not choice either to help or not to help. People regularly meditating will understand this POV easily.


    Aum

    Amrut
    Last edited by Amrut; 03 August 2013 at 10:24 AM.
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  6. #26
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    Re: Genuine Questions on Advaita

    Quote Originally Posted by Anima Deorum View Post
    Namaste,

    Thank you for the clear and illuminating explanation of jivatman and paramatman, which I have been seeking. So Jiva describes the extraverted binding of the soul through false identification. Atman describes how the immanent effulgence of the soul can unbind it. Is this right?

    That I can understand, but not paramatman or Brahma, or, ultimately, principles of union and division. This is because there are no such ultimate principles. Perhaps the real knowledge is simple. There is a way. Walk upon it.

    Pranam.
    Namaste,

    I did not get your point. There is no effulgence in Atman. In simple words Advaita asks one to rise above dvaita. There is a way, and one has to walk on the path, but in the end, nothing except Brahman remains.

    @jthomasnaz

    Namaste my pleasure

    Aum

    Amrut
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  7. #27
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    Re: Genuine Questions on Advaita

    Namaste,


    Quote Originally Posted by jthomasnaz View Post
    I see that you have a very clear understanding of the philosophy. And you dissect the philosophy like an expert. I appreciate all that you share which is an exhaustive research. However, when I meditate on God, I see Atman. I see Brahman meditating on himself through atma. I see the universe in atma. I hope that this does not contradict the philosophy.
    For explanation purposes, what you say is right. But if you mean that you are witness of witness and that you see Brahman, then it is not a correct perception. It violates shruti. Brahman is indescribable.
    Seeing universe inside Atma is fine, but it is not the final state, hence wise men advise to neglect this state and go further until no second one remains.

    Quote Originally Posted by dharma321 View Post
    What do you folks have to say about Jiddu Krishnamurti, he says, if you read books and live accordingly then you are a "second hand" human being. Because, you live according to what "others" have thought... One has to set everything aside (scriptures, books... etc) and think on his own, to see the 'truth'.
    Never read J. Krishnamurti. So no comments on his philosophy.

    Just a note that when someone asked Sri Ramana Maharshi that,

    'J. Krishnamurti says that there is no need of Guru',

    Sri Ramana Maharshi replied.

    'Who says so? After realization, one can say, but not before'

    Aum

    Amrut
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  8. #28

    Re: Genuine Questions on Advaita

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality Amrut View Post
    Namaste,

    Never read J. Krishnamurti. So no comments on his philosophy.

    Just a note that when someone asked Sri Ramana Maharshi that,

    'J. Krishnamurti says that there is no need of Guru',

    Sri Ramana Maharshi replied.

    'Who says so? After realization, one can say, but not before'

    Aum

    Amrut
    I think you should read J. Krishnamurti, he says all this is a propaganda of thousands (millions?) of years, and people are 'conditioned' to think, act, be in a certain way... I hope there is someone in this forum who has read J. K.

  9. #29
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    Re: Genuine Questions on Advaita

    Smaranam ji,

    You have caught me in one thing for which I am yet to find a convincing answer. It is 'Free will of Jnani-s'.

    Leaving aside all divine and ancient personalities, bhakta-s and Jnani-s are also have free will.

    Jai Shri Krishna
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  10. #30

    Re: Genuine Questions on Advaita

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality Amrut View Post
    Smaranam ji,

    You have caught me in one thing for which I am yet to find a convincing answer. It is 'Free will of Jnani-s'.

    Leaving aside all divine and ancient personalities, bhakta-s and Jnani-s are also have free will.

    Jai Shri Krishna
    Namaste

    1. Regarding the free will of a jnAni bhakta (because there is no such thing as just a jnani or just a bhakta), only a delta amount may be left, but technically or theoretically it is all lost. This is the whole idea - To let go of individual sankalpa[*1] (will) and let the sankalpa (Will) of Parameshwar take charge of things. Some (bhakta) retain one sankalpa. Rest is with KRshNa. This is KRshNa-consciousness.

    The jnAni who was once an ajnani, theoretically does not have any sankalpa[*1] left once merged (vileen) into Bramhan (the Universal Self), but they do not stop existing as an individual point in the infinite Bramhan. This is what is "dormant in the Bramhan-jyoti" acc. to achintya-bheda-abheda.

    2. In this regard, the stmt "The jnani can take avatar" is not right in the sense of keval advaita - This is what I was pointing out - that it indicates free will that the jnani is not supposed to have.
    Already gave a link to a post on Shripad Shrivallabh who says:

    Parameshwar = sacchidananda Bramhan with sankalpa and
    the disembodied siddha/jnani = sacchidananda without sankalpa.

    Perhaps you did not read it, since I saw the same thing repeated in the last post. If Ishwar makes a sankalpa to dispatch this jnani some place after leaving the body, the jnani goes there. For this, the disembodied jnani's existence has to be individual (has to have a marker, identifier), although consciousness is that of Bramhan. This is the difference between individual existence and individual consciousness - was my point.

    3. I am not mixing NirguNa and SaguNa. By "Bramhan-minds" I mean minds of Jnanis who have realized that they are that Bramhan. These are connected to but distinct from the Cosmic Mind of Ishwar.
    I said this: siddhAtmA1 <-------> Parameshwar <-----> SiddhAtmA2. (Siddhatma need not be embodied).
    Moeover, "the Cosmic Mind of Ishwar" was not my addition.

    Jnani or an advaitin does not think as to what will happen after Self Realization. There can be nothing beyond it. IF at all Ishwara wishes to bring Jnani down to dual plane or in other words, wishes to work through the body of Jnani, it is left to God and Jnani has not choice either to help or not to help. People regularly meditating will understand this POV easily.
    Yes, this we can relate to easily, no question of that once the sankalpa tendency is dropped.

    Jai Shri KRshNa
    ____________________
    [*1] sankalpa = resolve, motive, intent (a result of desire).
    Last edited by smaranam; 03 August 2013 at 11:58 AM.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

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