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Thread: Genuine Questions on Advaita

  1. #41
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    Re: Genuine Questions on Advaita

    Quote Originally Posted by smaranam View Post
    NO. The Self sees rope, but in some corner of this illusiory world, an illusiory figure called Amrut is seeing snakes and in that very illusion demands that the Self should thank the snake - not once, but twice!

    Before this the illusiory figure sees statements and makes wrong assumptions, sees questions where they were not asked, illusion within illusion, and gives basic Advaita lessons on an illusiory thread where they are unnecessary within the illusion itself. Another illusion.
    Calm down smaranam ji

    Namaste

    That demand was on lighter mode If concepts are not clear, they have to be cleared, as base has to be clear. the fact that you had used Atman and Jiva interchangeably in first post and query of avatadvAda, siddhi-s, etc have an a priori that Jiva still exists after Jnana.Your questions are very logical.

    First, premises or axiomatic understanding - subject to checks.

    1. AtmA inside body of a creature is consciousness - distinct from mind, intellect, ego
    2. Brahman is essentially all-pervading consciousness and substratum of everything.
    3. Shvetasvatara Up. says AtmA is atomic but pervades the body.
    4. Parameshvar/BhagavAn is essentially Brahman with a pure functional ahaMkAr, omnipotent, omnipresent,
    omniscient. Everywhere simultaneously, with infinite limbs, eyes...
    Post #40, post #1 and the double edited post #37 shows that you still need advaita lessons - don't mind.

    Jnana is permanent .. and no doubt arises in Jnana

    Remove pink glasses of Bhakti and wear Blue glass of Jnana (advaita) to understand advaita in advaita way.

    You are fine doing bhakti. If you have noticed PrasthAntrayi does not include study of purANa-s. So one may or may not study them. PurANa- are more important as they help bhakta to cultivate bhakti rasa.

    There is a knowledgeable member active in this thread. If anything is wrong, as a senior (because I consider myself as a beginner), kindly pin point my mistakes, as wrong info should be corrected.

    Jai Shri Krishna

    Hari OM
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  2. #42

    Re: Genuine Questions on Advaita

    om gurave namaḥ


    Namaste,

    If I might be so bold to add some thought here; In resonating with the Kashmir philosophy, all is essentially very real, and in essence it is all Naryana; We are like children in the playground.
    The thought which occurs to me, is this: How can one possibly uplift another who is struggling to swim, without getting ones own feet wet again?

    Surely, helping ones self is the assistance of another, themselves flailing, dying to be released; one must come down from ones abode, and get dirty in saṁskāra; I like to think that it is a matter of timing, which is why Jyotiṣ light is so very dear to me, that and my love of science ...

    Pertaining to your questions smaranam; I have a though upon reading one of them:

    Are these partial avatars not in the purest state? If yes, what makes them partial? What "covers" the Yoga shakti partially?


    Referring to the words and imagery of swami Lakshman Jū;
    Those of the coagulation of conciousness; this covering might it be just that. The necessity of coagulation in order that memory's form, how else would we otherwise know of such beings? This seems to me that it could be the cause of such covering.

    Thank you all for your reflection here, it is a positively delight to discover the language, knowledge and ideas, the legend, with which you are all so very well acquainted; I can't help but feel somewhat ill equipped for such a wonderful discussion, it is also a delight to be learning.

    It is a pleasure to read and learn from you All; your devotion imbues your words with
    a sweet flavour, the dance of a subtle tattva born of devotion, as elemental as it is divine; is this rasa not its self, of the self, and as such also very real? The mood of the playground, if you will.

    Kind regards.
    Last edited by Mana; 09 August 2013 at 05:10 AM.

  3. #43
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    Re: Genuine Questions on Advaita

    Quote Originally Posted by Mana View Post
    om gurave namaḥ


    Namaste,

    If I might be so bold to add some thought here; In resonating with the Kashmir philosophy, all is essentially very real, and in essence it is all Naryana; We are like children in the playground.
    The thought which occurs to me, is this: How can one possibly uplift another who is struggling to swim, without getting ones own feet wet again?

    Surely, helping ones self is the assistance of another, themselves flailing, dying to be released; one must come down from ones abode, and get dirty in saṁskāra; I like to think that it is a matter of timing, which is why Jyotiṣ light is so very dear to me, that and my love of science ...

    Pertaining to your questions smaranam; I have a though upon reading one of them:



    Referring to the words and imagery of swami Lakshman Jū;
    Those of the coagulation of conciousness; this covering might it be just that. The necessity of coagulation in order that memory's form, how else would we otherwise know of such beings? This seems to me that it could be the cause of such covering.

    Thank you all for your reflection here, it is a positively delight to discover the language, knowledge and ideas, the legend, with which you are all so very well acquainted; I can't help but feel somewhat ill equipped for such a wonderful discussion, it is also a delight to be learning.

    It is a pleasure to read and learn from you All; your devotion imbues your words with
    a sweet flavour, the dance of a subtle tattva born of devotion, as elemental as it is divine; is this rasa not its self, of the self, and as such also very real? The mood of the playground, if you will.

    Kind regards.
    Namaste,

    No questions are foolish or stupid.
    All (so-called) guru-s once were newbies.

    Never be afraid to put forth your opinion, but do not do it carelessly.

    What matters is to speak from heart. Even OP (Original Poster) speaks from heart, but at times gets irritated. Afterall we are all humans

    Coming back to topic, As far as advaita is concerned, as it considers this world as illusion or false perception or appearence (as some say), hence advaitins are taught not to focus or spend time on thinking about this world. We are taught to do dosha darshan i.e. fault finding. In the beginning one finds difficult to accept that this world, which we all experience, as just an illusion.

    Only after having some experience in meditation, one can convince oneself that this world is not real. So advaitin do not think of this world as divine play. We have different POV

    It is not that we are free form delusion the moment we are initiated into mahavakya-s or on OM or neti neti, etc.

    It is a journey in which is about to find the source of everything. 'I' accompanies our journey, as it is consciousness. Finally 'I' which is ego melts and the real 'I' expresses itself. It is the completeness, but no one other is there to experience. This is advaita state.

    I can't keep myself away from giving lessons

    Hari OM
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  4. #44

    Re: Genuine Questions on Advaita

    om gurave namaḥ


    Namaste Indiaspirituality Amrut,

    Thank you kindly! A fascinating conversation that it is indeed. I find the entirety of this beautiful tradition to be quite amazing, so please do keep on teaching, and smarnarm also, who's devotion is truly wonderful, matched by his/her knowledge also.

    I have only just got a copy of the Simrad Bhagava; so I am far from an commentary, but it is wonderful to hear of its content. My study of Jyotish are leading me to broader reading; Alas, I am a very slow reader ...

    Kind regards.

  5. #45
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    Re: Genuine Questions on Advaita

    Quote Originally Posted by Mana View Post
    om gurave namaḥ


    Namaste Indiaspirituality Amrut,

    Thank you kindly! A fascinating conversation that it is indeed. I find the entirety of this beautiful tradition to be quite amazing, so please do keep on teaching, and smarnarm also, who's devotion is truly wonderful, matched by his/her knowledge also.

    I have only just got a copy of the Simrad Bhagava; so I am far from an commentary, but it is wonderful to hear of its content. My study of Jyotish are leading me to broader reading; Alas, I am a very slow reader ...

    Kind regards.
    Namaste Mana ji,

    You are very humble. Go real slow. Take your time/ Digest teachings of our Shastra-s. Just dont be lazy. The more you try to rush, more you fall back.

    We cannot understanding everything. Keep praying to Bhagavan to Show you way. Keep your goal of being one with Shiva (or anything similar), as the only goal or primary goal of your life.

    Understanding occurs when Guru or Bhagavan gives us sAmarthya (potential) to grasp subtle teachings. Transformation occurs and coarse of life changes when one experiences what Shastra-s say. So just follow them the best you can.

    Good luck with Jyotish shastra.

    Om Namah Shivaya
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  6. #46
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    Re: Genuine Questions on Advaita

    Pranams,

    Advaitins will find Jivanmukti Viveka of Swami Vidyaranya
    useful. Summary by Shri S. N. Shastri

    Jivan Mukti by Swami Shantananda Puri

    Hari OM
    Last edited by Amrut; 11 August 2013 at 12:41 PM. Reason: added 2nd link
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  7. #47

    Re: Genuine Questions on Advaita

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality Amrut View Post
    the fact that you had used Atman and Jiva interchangeably in first post
    I did not. That is what I am trying to tell. You ASSUMED I did - without really reading. You JUMPED to conclusions and diverted the thread.

    I want the Truth, not Adi Shankara's views. The only reason this thread is in this forum is because it is based on the premise of ONE indivisible AtmA = Bramhan (- but it was a mistake to put it here. I should have known.)

    **Wait, let me finish.

    Remarks such as "We advaitins do not think like this"
    "Prashtan trayi does not mandate puranas"
    are not acceptable. If that is you answer, it means it is either unknown to you or BEYOND THE SCOPE OF your philosophy, in which case please do not reply. Let someone else do so.

    Jnana is permanent .. and no doubt arises in Jnana
    You might be surprised to hear that "permanent" ends at mahapralay according to some views, and this is what I was arriving at. Acc. to this view, no sanchit karma remain after mahapralay. So, the only way creatures can come into existence is if [points in] Bramhan get[s] deluded. For Bramhan to get deluded, the repository of Bramhajyoti becomes the candidate - these could potentially be ones 'vileen' (merged) into Bramhan in the past and forgotton all about it.

    Plus, "jnana is permanent" is only a theoretical statement, it may not be practical reality, even within a kalpa. Creation is a result of vAsanA, and vAsanA can arise from the weaker points in Bramhan, not just from the repository of sanchit karma.

    Kashmiri Shaiva says "Siva throttles Himself to become creatures"
    If that is so, I would rather not blend into Him, I don't want to "throttle" myself, sorry.

    Regarding individuality not going away after jnana, according to Shripad Shrivallabh who is Lord Dattatreya, and propounder of Advaitic oneness - He says those who are 'vileen' into me, can be brought back by Me if I want to for a purpose. It proves that the Lord knows who is who after they merge.

    This seems like practical reality irrespective of mahavakyas and irrespective of Bramhan-bhUta bhAv, or brAmhi-sthiti of an individual.

    Despite all of the above I can maintain Bramhan-bhAva. Nothing wrong. I can see that I am the Self, at this point. But I do feel the pain in the body if someone pinches it.

    Remove pink glasses of Bhakti
    Do not make assumptions about me.

    and wear Blue glass of Jnana (advaita) to understand advaita in advaita way.
    It is not enough to understand advaita in theory or even in bhAva. One has to see what actually is the case - ontological. For this, turning one's back on the 5th veda just for convenience, may not help.

    You are fine doing bhakti.
    You can't tell me what to do.

    PurANa- are more important as they help bhakta to cultivate bhakti rasa.
    Again you are mistaken. Puranas, especially the sAttvik purAN and its crown-jewel - Shrimad BhAgavat purAN, is FULL OF REAL TATTVA-JNANA UPTO THE BRIM, not just bhakti rasa. This tattva-jnana points to oneness (be it underlying or otherwise), yes, hence the thread is under "Advaita", but it tells a story beyond Adi-Shakara's story.

    No need to reply to this post. I am going to take the thread in another direction. Thanks.

    Jai Shri KRshNa
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  8. #48

    Re: Genuine Questions on Advaita

    Namaste smarnam,

    Quote Originally Posted by smaranam View Post
    Puranas, especially the sAttvik purAN and its crown-jewel - Shrimad BhAgavat purAN, is FULL OF REAL TATTVA-JNANA UPTO THE BRIM, not just bhakti rasa. This tattva-jnana points to oneness (be it underlying or otherwise), yes, hence the thread is under "Advaita", but it tells a story beyond Adi-Shakara's story.
    Just beginning to study these wonderful scriptures; they are full of highly relevant teachings for a Jyotiṣi. This is to my mind many years ahead of our current understanding of astrophysics and has remarkable relevance to today's neurology, the universal self, not the me self.

    These wonderful scriptures will help us to remember that; of that I am sure.

    Kind regards.

  9. #49

    Re: Genuine Questions on Advaita

    Namaste Mana

    I am happy to hear that you are studying the purAN, and especially Shrimad BhAgvat. It is the vAngmayi svarUp (literary incarnation) of Shri KRshNa.

    Just this thought that another has gotten hold of the jewel makes me so so happy. I can safely say "Mana is off on a journey for a while"

    Jai Shri KRshNa
    om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  10. #50

    Re: Genuine Questions on Advaita

    Namaste smarnam,

    I am so happy; I started reading last night and have found it instantly absorbing; this is a good sign for one who's mind has a tendency towards gymnastics ...

    I love the referance already to the importance of the energy contained in the telling, over and above the grammatical correctness.
    Śrī must be present in order to shine, like the heavenly body's, that Anugraha.

    This could take some time; I must pay tribute to modern technology, as I have the entire
    Śrīmad bhāgavatam, Bhāgavad gītā and the Viśnu purāṇa amongst others; all on the same e-reader!
    How wonderful it would be if there was a Sanskrit dictionary available with an index of Hindu nomenclature too; how fantastic that would be ...



    Kind regards.
    Last edited by Mana; 13 August 2013 at 12:23 AM.

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