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Thread: Questions on Changing Brahman

  1. #11

    Re: Questions on Changing Brahman

    Just as all the growth of snake is accommodated by the rope on which it is imagined about

    Please also see my answer before this.
    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  2. #12

    Re: Questions on Changing Brahman

    And even as the entire dream world is expanding in your Awareness .. and so awareness is that which grows faster than anything in your dream...
    Just remain with this ... and see.
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  3. #13

    Re: Questions on Changing Brahman

    Namaste silence speaks,

    Quote Originally Posted by silence_speaks View Post
    Just as all the growth of snake is accommodated by the rope on which it is imagined about

    I will be honest with you here, I find this analogy a little nonsensical; please forgive me for I do not understanding your analogy. Perhaps our experience differs?

    Quote Originally Posted by silence_speaks View Post
    And even as the entire dream world is expanding in your Awareness .. and so awareness is that which grows faster than anything in your dream...
    Just remain with this ... and see.

    I tend to differ in belief than that of yours expressed here, as I have understood it; a difference of perspective, the thread requests that I avoid diverging to differing philosophy's, I shall not introduce them here; but thank you none the less for expressing your perspective.

    I find that I refer regularly to the word fractal when expressing many of these wonderful philosophies; it is a relatively new word, coined in the 80's or early 90's. Perhaps realdemigod could find this model to be useful, when approaching the question originally posted?


    Dear all,
    I have had this doubt for long and decided to get some opinions. By the very definition of Brahman - it's continuously growing or expanding. Then how can it be the only ever permanent thing in the cosmos?


    When I read you here:

    And even as the entire dream world is expanding in your Awareness .. and so awareness is that which grows faster than anything in your dream...
    Just remain with this ... and see.


    I do not find this postulate to be satisfactory or in alignment with my understanding; my personal experience leads me to a different line of thought.

    Thank you for expressing your thoughts so
    vigorously, and divulging of your understanding.



    Kind regards.
    Last edited by Mana; 22 August 2013 at 04:50 PM.

  4. #14

    Re: Questions on Changing Brahman

    Dear Mana,
    Thank you !
    What can I say ? All you said is this is non-sense for you and that this is not clear to you ! Neither told your perspective nor asked mine ...

    So ..

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  5. #15

    Re: Questions on Changing Brahman

    namaste silence speaks,

    You are most welcome, quite right, you may be inferring to a script or doctrine of which I am unaware, yet in the context of this thread and in regards to what you could say ...

    Please explain from your understanding, the expansion, movement or flow of infinite awareness.

    To my mind, we must first meditate on the expansion into, and thus the quantity of dimensions. In the fractal model this is the number of iterations, interestingly the fractal model begins with a circle, or rather a dot.

    The eloquence of the Klein bottle is that it exists in 4 dimensions yet only has one surface ... where as the mobius strip is , 'nearly' only two dimensional, but this is an illusion as it does have square edges. Nit picking but there is a difference in what is real and exists, and what is theory or illusory, arguably delusion.

    The fractal model is in my opinion the most eloquent, as they can be felt to exist in nature, and indeed are proving to manifest most everywhere. As a meditative exercise, I like to think of the self as a pixel on the computer screen. Showing a finite part of something which is infinite, with an infinite amount of self-similar, repeating, expanding forms; should we zoom in to it. The pixel does not contain the whole set, as it has emerged from it, but it does contain reflections of the whole set.

    This expansion takes place within the framework of the 25 tattva; 36 in other schools of thought, (into which we are not supposed to be headed in this thread) thus my avoidance of awareness thinness and I-ness.
    The fractal, uses two axis and their junction with the complex plain, we need only look at a flower to see the staggering beauty that can manifest when these extra dimensions are expanded to 25 or more.

    I will repeat that the interesting infinity, on the Klein bottle, is most expansive at the point where three different surfaces join; notice there is also a duality present. Liquid no liquid, infinite space which penetrates the finite space

    Were you aware of this?

    Wow, I'm going to have to learn some maths, text can be so cumbersome ...

    Thank you for taking the time to read my rambles ...


    Kind regards.
    Last edited by Mana; 23 August 2013 at 01:04 AM.

  6. #16

    Re: Questions on Changing Brahman

    Dear Mana,
    Expansion is always w.r.t time.
    And Brahman is the "Adhishtana" --- it is what supports time.
    Brahman precedes time.
    So expansion and movement here must be used figuratively.

    You can read my other posts to understand this better. I am caught up with some work now, will respond to this a little later.

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  7. #17

    Re: Questions on Changing Brahman

    Quote Originally Posted by realdemigod View Post
    Necromancer, Brahman is derived from the Sanskrit root brmh meaning to grow, to expand, to bellow, to roar (source: sanskrit.org). I'm basing my question on this.

    I'm not really convinced with your explanations of 'no' to all my questions just on the fact why is Brahman derived from the root brmh if that is not its quality.

    wundermonk - care to reply?

    here is my reason why the word 'Brahman' which its intrinsic nature limitless come from the sanskrit root bṛh meaning to expand, to grow.

    example: we know from math, the series of odd number is infinite or limitless. when I follow the series, it keep growing, getting bigger-bigger and bigger..when I am sure that I find the biggest odd number, I am wrong, still there is one odd number bigger than I thought before..If I don't see the number is growing then odd number series is not limitless. If I can see the end of the growing, then it is limited.

    so one of the closest way to say something that is limitless, is using the word that means keep growing, getting bigger, that is brahman.

    Brahman's intrinsic nature is existence-consciousness-limitlessness...they are not 3 separate nature.
    Existence can not have limitation. If existence has limit, then you will ask, what is that exist beyond the limit? and someone will try to answer, "non-existence is exist". See? it is a contradiction to say non existence is exist.

    existence can only be established by consciousness. no conscious being can know the existence of something. only consciousness that is exist.
    so brahman is limitless existence and limitless consciousness.

    all thing in the universe, has the ultimate substance which is existence-consciousness-limitlessness. We can not divide the atom or anything and expect the result beyond existence. there is only existence.

    even the definition and word brahman can not really give us the exact meaning.
    we can correctly definite something, only if we can know the attribute of that thing that make it difference from other thing. example: the attribute of apel is different from orange. Therefore definition is requiring someone to point the attribute of something that will be defined.

    Brahman can not have attribute because it is limitless so it can not be defined precisely, that is the limitation of the language.
    and being limitless, what is left to be define?
    Brahman is also not an object that can be really defined. Brahman is not an object. When I say, " 'This' is brahman!". the implication is: 'that' thing is not brahman. brahman is limitless, 'this' and 'that' are brahman only
    Last edited by Lokavidu; 25 August 2013 at 08:18 AM.

  8. #18

    Re: Questions on Changing Brahman

    Namaste

    That dictionary meaning is just expressing the magnanimous nature of Bramhan - magnanimosity and grandiosity in ALL respects and aspects.

    Larger than the largest, smaller than the smallest,
    lighter than the lightest, heavier than the heaviest,
    subtler than the subtlest,
    more profound than the most profound
    more charming than the most charming
    more blissfull than the most blissful...

    There is always more to it. Bramhan is like the horizon.
    ------

    Many nice answers here already.
    "growth" is relative, just as "time" is.
    In the Absolute sense there is no time really, but in our relative world it appears to move.
    Similarly, growth is an appearance and is relative.

    A large balloon fits in a box. I get a larger ballon, oh that one also fits. Did the box grow? I did not
    know its capacity to begin with. Its like the horizon.
    -------

    The best thing is to study very carefully the Bhagavad Gita Chapter 13 shloka 12 to 17, and 8.3 for defN of Bramhan straight from Bramhan (Shri KRshNa).

    - knowable, to be known, highest and beginningless, giver of highest bliss
    - having eyes, hands, legs, heads, mouths everywhere because it contains the entire manifestation
    - knows all sense-objects despite having no senses,
    - unattached yet support and nourisher of all
    - untouched by modes of material nature (nirguNa), yet experiences (tastes, consumes) the effects of

    these modes (guNa-bhoktA)
    - inside and outside all beings, moving and stationary (all-pervading)
    - is those very beings yet extemely subtle hence undetectable
    - extremely near (being one's AtmA) yet very far (unreachable owing to either ignorance or lack of faith)
    - indivisible whole like the sky, yet appears divided like sky in pots (avibhaktam cha bhUteshu

    vibhaktamiva cha sthitam)
    - maintains all beings as VishNu, creates as BramhA and annhilates as Mahesh
    - flame of all flames (purest, innermost tattva - principle), beyond mAyA
    - knowledge itself by nature, to be known, and living in the hearts of all beings

    - imperishable, infallible, flawless, highest (akshara bramhan param - BG 8.3)


    mayi [cha] ananya yogena bhaktiravyabhichAriNi...
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

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