The Wisdom of Our Moderators

[Jeffery D. Long]

I don't think we should talk about Abrahamic personas on HDF. I really do believe there is a secret proselytizing going on perhaps.

Paijavana

Namaste, Paijavanaji,

If there is proselytizing going on, it's a weird, sneaky kind of proselytizing. Most Christian proselytizers would not want us worshiping their deity alongside our Hindu deities, but would want us instead to worship him exclusively. Most Christians, I think, would react to "mixing" deities exactly as many Hindus do--with outrage--but from the opposite direction, as it were.

But maybe it is proselytizing. As one of our members recently said in another context, who knows why irrational people do what they do?

A couple of years ago, there was a Christian church that had a website in which they were attacking Hindu Dharma. It really upset me and I began arguing with them in their comment section. Pretty soon, another Hindu guy, a Shaiva going by the screen name Tandava, joined me. (Maybe he's also on HDF.) We pretty quickly demolished the Christians' arguments, but in the course of things, we also struck up an online friendship. We started using the comment section of the Christian website to chat about Vedanta philosophy, our sadhana experiences, temples we had visited, and so on. Soon, that church website looked like a miniature HDF! After a few weeks, the church took it down. Tandava and I had more or less hijacked it for Hindu Dharma.

I believe our moderators want to prevent something similar from happening to HDF, but from the other direction. And they are wise to do so.

HDF is for internal Hindu conversation on Hindu matters. There are plenty of other venues for inter-religious dialogue, alternative theologies, and so on. That is where those conversations should occur.

Pranam.

[Eastern Mind]

Tandava and I had more or less hijacked it for Hindu Dharma.

Vannakkam: Good for you guys. Not that it would change too many minds. Funny that people just don't wisely put more controls on their comments sections. Tandava does come here occasionally.

Aum Namasivaya

[Jeffery D. Long]

Vannakkam: Good for you guys. Not that it would change too many minds. Funny that people just don't wisely put more controls on their comments sections. Tandava does come here occasionally.

Aum Namasivaya

I don't think they could even conceive of Hindus "talking back." They eventually lapsed into stunned silence, and then just shut the whole thing down.

[Sudas Paijavana]

Namaste,

Yes, finally a thread where we can discuss our worries on this serious matter.

In all honesty (and this will be brief), I am not afraid, but I am highly worried and concerned for the future of Hinduism.

It isn't the proselytizers that worry me too much, but the warm heart of Hindus that does.

Hindu Dharma isn't a one way road. It has so many paths to choose from. Hinduism has its originality.

Why should one admire other faiths on HDF, when we can promote the infinitude of Hinduism? Sometimes, Hindus can be persuaded too easily and are reluctant to engage in sophisticated confrontation. To keep matters appeased, many Hindus resort to "okay, you are right".

I am glad you and Tandava went academic on that forum. It should send a clear message that we Hindus aren't tamed and flocked as non-Hindus would have thought.

Let this thread be orientated around our concerns for keeping Abrahamic influences not only away from HDF, but come up with ways of addressing on keeping those influences out of Hindu Dharma in general.

Jai Shri VishveDevah

Paijavana

[Avyaydya]

Namaste, Paijavanaji,

If there is proselytizing going on, it's a weird, sneaky kind of proselytizing. Most Christian proselytizers would not want us worshiping their deity alongside our Hindu deities, but would want us instead to worship him exclusively. Most Christians, I think, would react to "mixing" deities exactly as many Hindus do--with outrage--but from the opposite direction, as it were.

But maybe it is proselytizing. As one of our members recently said in another context, who knows why irrational people do what they do?

A couple of years ago, there was a Christian church that had a website in which they were attacking Hindu Dharma. It really upset me and I began arguing with them in their comment section. Pretty soon, another Hindu guy, a Shaiva going by the screen name Tandava, joined me. (Maybe he's also on HDF.) We pretty quickly demolished the Christians' arguments, but in the course of things, we also struck up an online friendship. We started using the comment section of the Christian website to chat about Vedanta philosophy, our sadhana experiences, temples we had visited, and so on. Soon, that church website looked like a miniature HDF! After a few weeks, the church took it down. Tandava and I had more or less hijacked it for Hindu Dharma.

I believe our moderators want to prevent something similar from happening to HDF, but from the other direction. And they are wise to do so.

HDF is for internal Hindu conversation on Hindu matters. There are plenty of other venues for inter-religious dialogue, alternative theologies, and so on. That is where those conversations should occur.

Pranam.

Lets not be gullible, there is a secret war going on. Christians have been destroying Pagans by all means for two thousand years. And they are ruthless.

But Hinduism is still there. Why? Dharm and Deva worship. Deva's guide us on the path of Dharm. As long as we walk the path of Dharm no Asura can destroy our faith, and as long as we worship Deva's we stay on the path of Dharm. They can only seduce us, because we create our own Karma.

That is why Christians are trying to lure us away from Deva worship, overstating that Hinduism is a monotheistic religion and presenting it as Universalism in which all Gods are the same, either Krishna or Christ. They want to make us believe Deva worship is inferior. They also continuously confront us with stories of Hindu's worshipping Jesus to make it seem like a normal thing to do for a Hindu. This way they can present themselves as Hindu's that also worship Christ, and getting others to do the same. In the next stage they must worship Christ first, and at some point get rid of the Deva's. Universalist create the idea that people that reject Jesus are small-minded and extreme fundamentalists. Bull ****, In Christian countries you will not find Hindu Deva's on altars, they regard it as worship of the Devil.

Universalism is an Abrahamic idea, not a Hindu one. They are Asura worshippers who see it as their holy task to destroy all dharmic religions and bring all people under their Asura. They do not follow Dharma, but aDharma. Hindu's do not worship Asura's, only Deva's, because Deva's protect Dharm. There can not be a happy universal religion in which Dharm and aDharm are mixed. They are like fire and water. Hindu's want no war, and do not seek to convert people, but they must keep their religion pure.

Only following Dharm will protect us, but lets try to keep the media clean from the Christian lies and deceit Jesus puts his servants up too. Like when he says in the book that among unbelievers Christians must be "innocent like doves and cunning like snakes". No wonder the Germanics regarded Roman missionaries as spies trying to create division in the enemy camp. Their tactic is always: divide and weaken, conquer, destroy all knowledge and brainwash the people.

If it comes to the internet I trust no one. It is an excellent rule to forbid people to share personal information as this used by Christians to get closer to people. I have seen enough sophisticated deceit by Christians to know their dealings. They play any role, often more roles at a time. They are extremely well organized and work as a pack so they can easier manipulate the discussion. They often control forums or set them up themselves. Private mail? Forget it. They follow courses to acquire superior knowledge to gain trust and authority. Don't be surprised that they are experts on the Veda's and have studied Sanskrit.

It might be interesting to create a thread to discuss the various ways and techniques Christian converters use. That way people become more vigilant and we can make it more difficult for them.

[Eastern Mind]

I don't think they could even conceive of Hindus "talking back." They eventually lapsed into stunned silence, and then just shut the whole thing down.

Vannakkam: My Gurudeva advised to say "Yes, thank you very much," and then boldly close the door.

People do learn. I had some very interesting conversations outside my hotel room in Madurai with the Tamil Hindus there. Many have picked up the cue, but we still have a long ways to go.

Aum Namasivaya

[Friend from the West]

Hari Om

Namaste

From my observation, which means could be so very wrong, when Satay closed up the Abrahamic section, this helped much in what Sudas Paijavana speaks of (hope not injuring your meaning of post).

Do not think this solution lends itself in this case. As just one Jiva, do think an attempt at a solution is needed as often times the mere mention of something leads no where good. At same time, think what Satay has created here is just incredible, due in part to open discussions. Also, it appears that both NRIs and non-NRIs are not united in offense to these discussions, and this is often times influenced by what particular form they follow. Why should they be silenced? Would hate to see forced censure in this case and would hate to see in attempt to do good by silencing this, Something that can not become that, be made to appear to be no different then what is disliked.

My completely unsolicited recommendation is a stand alone article (no comments or such to detract from it) from a member (both may not appreciate me saying this, but perhaps SaidevoJi or Jai Maa Durga) explaining why even the brush up of traditions like Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, strike such a nerve.

This would permit discussions to carry on but also give a frame of reference that may serve all well by making folks more sensitive in their postings and allow for new members, especially those from other traditions, to become hip to some history that they may not have been familiar with.

To all, take the best of care.

Om NamahShivaya

FFTW