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Thread: Lets Meditate The Right Way

  1. #1

    Lets Meditate The Right Way

    Friends,
    I have been discussing in various forums on this topic and may be I can summarize something useful for everyone here.

    Lets take a case study based approach and see how we can really improve meditation. No! I am not trying to be a salesman. But may be I can share a little understanding "Free" [of course nothing is free... one has to apply oneself and read and digest this, isn't it ?].

    Case Study 1:

    A relative of mine, once told me "My son does not have any concentration on his studies. I think meditation can help him". This is very common. And many swami ji's would say "yes yes, take him through a meditation session , its just Rs 1500 only !"

    When I went to her home I saw this guy watching a cricket match ... he was watching it with so much concentration that even if you yell he would not even pay attention! Now is that not concentration ?

    Now friends ... please understand ... mind is like this. Its designed to be like this. Where there is interest, there is concentration. Automatic. One needs no practice for it. And if something does not interest you ... however hard you may try, concentrating would be very difficult. This is how the mind is designed. So when my concentration is lacking , what does it mean ? I do not like it ! Or my interest is elsewhere. So what do I correct first ? The interest levels or the practice ?

    That's why I often say "Long before sitting for meditation, become meditative"! This is common experience ... some times , after reading a few pages of gospel of Ramakrishna or Ramana or may be after studying some spiritual text ... mind behaves exceptionally! You just sit down for meditation and its as if you can sit like that for any long ! That's simply because one is meditative... the interest levels are high, thanks to the readings. So long before I can meditate, I have to become meditative.

    Ok, so is this the suggestion: "Before sitting for meditation study a book of Ramakrishna/Ramana etc" ?
    No! Because its temporary suggestion. A temporary high. A transient phase ... wont help.

    So what can be done ?

    The purpose of this thread is exactly this. I will continue this thread ... slowly and based upon reader involvement. Those interested may benefit.

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  2. #2

    Re: Lets Meditate The Right Way

    so here we are...
    where there is interest there is automatic concentration.
    clear.

    there is another point also.
    suppose there is no interest.
    why is there distraction ?
    lets see this ..
    whats distraction ? i am here, but i want to be elsewhere.
    do we see that?
    i am here, but want to be elsewhere ... that's distraction.
    so if mind is distracted, it means "its here, but wants to be elsewhere"


    I will break here to allow this point to be taken

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  3. #3
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    Smile Re: Lets Meditate The Right Way

    I do agree. I am also one such person who has REALIZED it in my own life. Many a time mind is not doing bad however its not doing what is is supposed as well. Means interest/inclination towards a particular subject will love to think about that & however may try to distract it,it effortlessly goes back to the same suject.

    Her the Subject & the intention is very important. As long as the intention & the subject is for welfare of self & the others in the society corresponding to the path shown by AAGAMA ? NIGAMA, its ok. However if the same is not corrsponding to Aagama/ Nigama marga, then we need to show the right Sugject & Right intention by practicing Meditation.

    Meditation is required more when we are spiritually advancing though slowly.

    Some time we have to train the mind by proving correct nutrients like surrendering the Self to the almighty( if one is fortunate enough to have a Sadguru who teaches you & takes you to the realization of the Almighty) & then everything starts rolling the way it should.

    Everymoment of life gets the Bliss & the same world looks different.......

    I have seen it.... Jai Shri Maa

  4. #4
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    Re: Lets Meditate The Right Way

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namast

    Quote Originally Posted by silence_speaks View Post
    so whats distraction ? i am here, but i want to be elsewhere.
    do we see that?
    i am here, but want to be elsewhere ... that's distraction.
    so if mind is distracted, it means "its here, but wants to be elsewhere"

    I will break here to allow this point to be taken

    Love!
    Silence
    I see it slightly differently; not opposed, just from a different vantage point.
    The mind goes from thought-to-thought no different then a bee glides from flower to flower. It ~seems~ the bee's activity is random, but with further observation it is quite purposeful.
    The mind goes from thought to thought or from idea to idea, or from one thing to another i.e.a smell, sight, touch from the wind on the skin. The mind alights onto these things. It even alights onto a distraction. It, like the bee, is looking for nectar, for something to experience, to have some taste for more. Doesn't matter what that 'more' is , as long as it is another experience for 'more' from the last experience , as the last experience subsided. Like that , the mind goes here and there.

    So, one needs to comprehend this and apply the proper upāya so one may advance in one's practice.

    Yet I can inform the reader this - the mind does not respond favorably ( in kali yuga) to high levels of control. It is like a child that does not take discipline well. One needs to coax the child with the proper inspiration and tools ( candy, food, toys). What then is the proper inspiration for the mind ? This comes from the teacher to evaluate what level the student is at for proper instruction. Three levels are usually considered ; within these 3 levels there are no less then 112 dhāraṇa-s ( 1+1+2 = 4 = a mokṣa house in jyotish).

    iti śiva

    words
    • upāya - that by which one reaches one's aim
    • dhāraṇa -techniques; holding , bearing , keeping (in remembrance) , retention , preserving , protecting , maintaining , possessing
    • 3 levels - please see this HDF post:
      http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...39&postcount=4
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  5. #5
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    Re: Lets Meditate The Right Way

    Namaste.

    A lot of problems in meditation arise when the sadhak tries to consciously 'control' their thoughts.

    They are taught that thoughts are bad, or the wanderings of the mind should be 'tamed' somehow.

    This leads to many situations where it's like "there's no way I can meditate, because my mind races too much" or "I just cannot concentrate enough to meditate".

    Fact is, that meditation and concentration are two different things.

    I was taught the 'right way' to meditate, in that one should just become an observer of their thoughts...letting them arise, then fade away...just watching them and not getting too involved or 'hung up' on a single thought.

    The mind is like an annoying toddler, always wanting attention...always pestering you to act. You cannot just 'ignore' it or hope that it will go away.

    Of course there are going to be distractions in the initial stages, but the 'mantra' of meditation is always 'are you quite done yet? let's move on, shall we?'

    That applies to anything from the mind wanting to be elsewhere, to 'experiences' and 'heightened states of consciousness' in meditation.

    Nothing is real or important, until you reach the stage whereby 'are you quite done yet? let's move on, shall we?' no longer applies.

    It's like a form of lucid dreaming, but you are awake the entire time.

    After a while of letting your thoughts all go with peace and love, trying not to dwell on a single thought, they start to slow down automatically.

    Focusing your awareness on your breath and bringing your attention back to your breathing when thoughts start to overwhelm you, that's the key.

    You can even imagine your breath as a certain colour...like orange or green...one colour going in and another colour going out.

    Yes, you are still 'thinking' but at least your thoughts won't be random after that.

    Aum Namah Shivaya

  6. #6

    Re: Lets Meditate The Right Way

    Dear Friends,
    Thank you for the inputs. We will discuss all these points in detail a little later today. . I really appreciate your participation in this thread.

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  7. #7

    Re: Lets Meditate The Right Way

    praNAm

    Nice thread. I collected these keywords from each of you above:

    interest, distraction, nectar, thoughts, surrender

    interest = IN KRshNa
    distraction = TOWARDS KRshNa
    nectar = ABOUT KRshNa
    next nectar = FOR KRshNa
    thoughts = OF KRshNa
    surrender = TO KRshNa
    samadhi = IN KRshNa

    I am either IN samAdhi or NOT. So there are only TWO possible states.

    Sometimes the Self is ONE without knowing it, so it is as if there is NONE, but sometimes the Self is TWO. Who can stop the Self from being TWO? We bypass the seer-seen-sought exercises and just live with each other.

    Who can convince the Self they are in mAyA just because they are TWO?
    Who can stop the Self from adoring the Beloved?
    Who can detain the Self from Govardhan ParikramA, be it in bhUlok VRndAvan, Goloka VRndAvan or mAnas-VRndAvan?
    Who can deny the Self the joy of offering a zillion praNAms to the entire bhakta vRndA, and to the entire
    creation?
    Who can tell the Self dancing and singing in kirtan is mAyA?

    QUESTION: Can you? If yes, then who are you [in tattva] ?
    ---------

    So what am I doing on HDF? I am IN samAdhi. The wierdest threads on HDF can be KRshNa these days. Scary. Yes, HDF is a once-a-day distraction, certainly - that is a very high frequency. A dangerous one, comes along with heavy dependance on material resources such as electricity, electronic equipment and software, but more significantly, possible addiction to e-satsang. Well, then this is just a crude material
    manifestation of the Gopis stealing out of the house to meet Shri KRshNa, since He is HDF too!
    HDF by itself is a sahasramUrti sahasrAksha sahasrapAda sahasra-thread NArAyaNa. Thanks Satay.

    So what is NON-samAdhi? When the ego called KAliyA shows His poisonous hoods.
    What do you do then? Ask KRshNa to dance on the hoods and make KAliyA go away and never be seen in the Yamuna.

    Please ignore if that was too boring or too much out of line.

    _/\_
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  8. #8

    Re: Lets Meditate The Right Way

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajeet View Post
    I do agree. I am also one such person who has REALIZED it in my own life. Many a time mind is not doing bad however its not doing what is is supposed as well. Means interest/inclination towards a particular subject will love to think about that & however may try to distract it,it effortlessly goes back to the same suject.
    Dear Ajeet,

    Very true.
    And why does the mind get distracted ? Only because of the kind of ideas we have fed it with.

    We have fed it with some ideas ... we have said , earlier ... for a long time ... "Indulgence in the world is a means to find happiness" ... so its trying.


    We can observe that whenever the mind moves ... it moves either towards a raga or away from a dvesha! So its our own raga-dveshas which we have cultivated in our subconscious over a period of time ... that dictate our mind's movement.


    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  9. #9

    Re: Lets Meditate The Right Way

    Dear Yajvan,
    Namasthe!

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namast

    I see it slightly differently; not opposed, just from a different vantage point.

    The mind goes from thought-to-thought no different then a bee glides from flower to flower. It ~seems~ the bee's activity is random, but with further observation it is quite purposeful.
    The mind goes from thought to thought or from idea to idea, or from one thing to another i.e.a smell, sight, touch from the wind on the skin. The mind alights onto these things. It even alights onto a distraction. It, like the bee, is looking for nectar, for something to experience, to have some taste for more. Doesn't matter what that 'more' is , as long as it is another experience for 'more' from the last experience , as the last experience subsided. Like that , the mind goes here and there.

    So that wanting another is a distraction. So this far, its exactly in line with the post.

    The following point on Upaayas, is something I am not completely in agreement. I know its a very commonly accepted view point, but I would prefer to defer and please be a little open minded when I say this. I will explain my perspective in the next few posts.

    Finally: yajvan, a small request. Can you please let me know the source of this "Upaayas thread" that you posted. I have been searching for this material, just heard it from someone. Is it from one of the Tantras ?


    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post

    So, one needs to comprehend this and apply the proper upāya so one may advance in one's practice.

    Yet I can inform the reader this - the mind does not respond favorably ( in kali yuga) to high levels of control. It is like a child that does not take discipline well. One needs to coax the child with the proper inspiration and tools ( candy, food, toys). What then is the proper inspiration for the mind ? This comes from the teacher to evaluate what level the student is at for proper instruction. Three levels are usually considered ; within these 3 levels there are no less then 112 dhāraṇa-s ( 1+1+2 = 4 = a mokṣa house in jyotish).

    iti śiva

    words
    • upāya - that by which one reaches one's aim
    • dhāraṇa -techniques; holding , bearing , keeping (in remembrance) , retention , preserving , protecting , maintaining , possessing
    • 3 levels - please see this HDF post:
      http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...39&postcount=4

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  10. #10

    Re: Lets Meditate The Right Way

    Dear Necromancer,
    Namasthe!


    Quote Originally Posted by Necromancer View Post
    Namaste.

    A lot of problems in meditation arise when the sadhak tries to consciously 'control' their thoughts.

    They are taught that thoughts are bad, or the wanderings of the mind should be 'tamed' somehow.

    This leads to many situations where it's like "there's no way I can meditate, because my mind races too much" or "I just cannot concentrate enough to meditate".

    Fact is, that meditation and concentration are two different things.
    Absolutely correct! I like the underlined statement particularly. It shows objectivity.


    Quote Originally Posted by Necromancer View Post

    I was taught the 'right way' to meditate, in that one should just become an observer of their thoughts...letting them arise, then fade away...just watching them and not getting too involved or 'hung up' on a single thought.

    ......

    After a while of letting your thoughts all go with peace and love, trying not to dwell on a single thought, they start to slow down automatically.

    Focusing your awareness on your breath and bringing your attention back to your breathing when thoughts start to overwhelm you, that's the key.


    I agree with this only partially. This is another popular notion. I like it and myself do it some times. Please see my next post to understand why I am not in total agreement with this. This is not to dismiss the sadhana... its beautiful method.



    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

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