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Thread: Ganapathi pooja in Vaishnavism

  1. #91

    Re: Ganapathi pooja in Vaishnavism

    bramhaNyam sarva-dharmadnyam lokAnAm kIrtivardhanam
    lokanatham mahatbhUtam sarva-bhUta-bhavot-bhavam

    esha me sarvadharmANAm dharmo-adhikatamo matah:
    yadbhaktyA punDarIkAksham stavairarchennarah: sadA

    paramam yo mahatteja paramam yo mahattapah:
    paramam yo mahat-bramha paramam yah: parAyaNam
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  2. #92

    Re: Ganapathi pooja in Vaishnavism

    pavitrANAm pavitram yo mangalAnAm cha mangalam
    daivatam devatAnAm cha bhutAnAm yo avyayah: pitAh:

    yatah: sarvANi bhUtAni bhavantyAdiyugAgame
    yasminscha pralayan yA anti punar eva yugakshaye

    tasya loka-pradhAnasya jagannAthasya bhUpate
    vishNornAmasahasram me shruNu pApabhayApaham

    yAni nAmAni gauNAni vikhyAtAni mahAtmanah:
    Rshibhih: parigitAni tAni vakshyAmi bhUtaye...

    (Conversation between YudhishThir and Bheeshma - last 3 posts,
    just before VishNusahasranAma - which is Bheeshma's real ans to Yudhishthir's QN. Please refer to Vishnusahasranama for translation. If there is interest I can post it here.)

    _/\_

    om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya ~
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  3. #93
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    Arrow Re: Ganapathi pooja in Vaishnavism

    Namaste, smaranam, jignyasu, viraja and phil.

    I read all posts but really i didn't find any satisfactory reason for neglecting worship of ganesha .
    Here everyone want to say that we shouldn't worship lord ganesha in vaishnawism, but i think this has no authority in shastras. However we get many pramanas that state we should worship him before starting of any worship.

    If really we shouldn't worship ganesha then what about that boon? Lord shiva bestowed upon Ganesha the boon that before every new venture and every worship , people would always invoke the name of lord Ganesha first and foremost and now we are seeing impact of this in every hindu families. Every hindu ( vaishnawa, shiva or devi-bhakta ) , invokes ganesha at the starting of the worship. I don't think vaishnawas are exceptions for it.Because lord shiva didn't say that you would be worshipped only by non-vaishnawas.

    Besides , Sar khandam Ramayana Chapter 10 talks about RAma's worship : Before building the bridge(sEtu) on the ocean, RAma did pooja for Lord VignEswara (GaNapati); with NaLan's help, He established 9 stones for Navagrahams and prayed to Navagrahams.
    This is how lord ram invoked ganesha before construction of bridge .As far as vedic tradition matters, lord ganesha is first worshipped . All great sages gave salutations to ganesha in their commentries on shastras before writing any word !

    Thank you. Hare Krishna

  4. #94

    Re: Ganapathi pooja in Vaishnavism

    Quote Originally Posted by hinduism♥krishna View Post
    Namaste, smaranam, jignyasu, viraja and phil.

    I read all posts but really i didn't find any satisfactory reason for neglecting worship of ganesha .
    Here everyone want to say that we shouldn't worship lord ganesha in vaishnawism, but i think this has no authority in shastras. However we get many pramanas that state we should worship him before starting of any worship.
    Again, you have not quoted any such pramANa-s. Even the bhAgavatam verse mentions worship of viNAyaka in conjunction with the Lord, not as a prerequisite.

    Nobody will take you seriously if you merely assert the truth of something without providing good evidence. So far, the few sources you have quoted are obscure ones that are not used by any vedAnta tradition. You seem to have some basic confusion about the difference between shruti and smRiti. Moreover, your concept of advaita philosophy, is starkly different from that developed by Adi shankarAchArya, a fact which you seem completely oblivious to.

    Besides , Sar khandam Ramayana Chapter 10 talks about RAma's worship : Before building the bridge(sEtu) on the ocean, RAma did pooja for Lord VignEswara (GaNapati); with NaLan's help, He established 9 stones for Navagrahams and prayed to Navagrahams.
    This is false. The building of the bridge is mentioned in sarga 22 of the yuddha-kANDa of vALmIki rAmAyaNa. There is no mention therein of rAma doing pUja to gaNapati.

    You haven't given any convincing reason for your position, other than that Hindus all over India whose practices you happen to approve of, endorse it. Meanwhile, real Vaishnavas who actually have a scholarly tradition upon which they base their practices, like those following Madhva and Ramanuja, do not do this Ganesha puja. Seeing as how their traditions predate yours by centuries, and that they have scholarly commentaries on a wide variety of mainstream shAstra-s, they have more of a right to call themselves Vaishnavas than you do, and consequently more of a right to set the standard for what is, and what is not, "ideal Vaishnavism."
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

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    Re: Ganapathi pooja in Vaishnavism

    Namaste, phil.

    Here is my understanding of ganesha tattva and why we should worship him.
    In simple language, the goal of man is to reach divinity. But evil feelings come in the way. But Lord Ganesh is the remover all difficulties. That’s why , since ancient times in Hinduism, any ‘upasana’ or ritual begins with ‘Ganesh Pooja’.

    Beginning with a Vedic prayer to Ganesh, is done everywhere. The religious books say that Lord Shiva and Parvati worshipped Shree Ganesh on the occasion of their marriage. Many people find this surprising. But in 100th verse of Bal Kand of ‘Ramcharitamanas’ composed by Tulsidas this is explained very convincingly. He said: This ‘Leela’ can only be understood by a true believer. As long as Shree Ganesh remains in the form of Maha Ganesh, he is the first complete free person from the beginning, middle and end of the creation of the universe. But when he takes the form of the son of Shiva and Parvati, a new chapter begins in his Leela. Undoubtedly this chapter is an inspiration to all of us.

    Thank you.

    ――――――――
    hinduism♥krishna
    Last edited by hinduism♥krishna; 06 September 2013 at 05:17 AM.

  6. #96
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    Re: Ganapathi pooja in Vaishnavism

    Quote Originally Posted by hinduism♥krishna View Post
    Besides , Sar khandam Ramayana Chapter 10 talks about RAma's worship : Before building the bridge(sEtu) on the ocean, RAma did pooja for Lord VignEswara (GaNapati); with NaLan's help, He established 9 stones for Navagrahams and prayed to Navagrahams.
    This is how lord ram invoked ganesha before construction of bridge .As far as vedic tradition matters, lord ganesha is first worshipped . All great sages gave salutations to ganesha in their commentries on shastras before writing any word !
    Namaste HLK,

    I opine that Sri Rama should not be looked upon as a model Sri Vaishnava. Either that or there are interpolations added later on to make Rama worship Sri Ganesha, Lord Shiva and so forth. I checked with Philosoraptor who had read the original Valmiki Ramayana and he says none of these are given in the text. Rama worshiped the present day Ranganatha in SriRangam for his ishta-devata (that is how the idol in SriRangam came to be there, through Rama) and he worshiped Sri Suryanarayana for victory in battle wit Ravana. If it is indeed true that he worshiped Sri Ganapathi and Lord Shiva, and it is for sure not interpolations, then also, we cannot look at his behaviour for a model Sri Vaishnava as told by Acharya Ramanuja.

    I even have a picture of Lord Shiva worshiping Rama, but this can only be understood as 'Lord Shiva doing Manasika prayer of Rama at Rama's coronation' and never can be understood as Lord Shiva physically being present at the Coronation ceremony. It is doubtful as to whether really Sri Rama prayed to Sri Ganesha and Lord Shiva, except for one time when Rama built the Shivling at Rameswaram to pray get rid of his 'brahmahatya' of slaying Ravana. So we cannot reach to conclusions from Ramayana, as we do not know what the original held!
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

  7. #97

    Re: Ganapathi pooja in Vaishnavism

    Quote Originally Posted by hinduism♥krishna View Post
    Namaste, phil.

    Here is my understanding of ganesha tattva and why we should worship him.
    Precisely. This is your understanding, not the understanding of shruti/smRiti.

    In simple language, the goal of man is to reach divinity. But evil feelings come in the way. But Lord Ganesh is the remover all difficulties. That’s why , since ancient times in Hinduism, any ‘upasana’ or ritual begins with ‘Ganesh Pooja’.
    We have no proof that "since ancient times in Hinduism, any 'upasana' or ritual begins with 'Ganesh Pooja." I can think of several upAsana-s/yagna mentioned in itihAsa/purANa where a preliminary worship of gaNesha is not done. These include, but are not limited to, rAma's worship of the family deity jagannAtha-nArAyaNa (who became the main deity of shrI rangam temple) described at the beginning of ayodhya-kANDa, rAma's appeasement of varuNa in order to get permission to build the bridge to lanka, dasharatha's putra-kAmEShTi-yagna described in bALa-kANDa, and many more. In each and every one of these events, a preliminary worship of gaNesha is not described.

    Beginning with a Vedic prayer to Ganesh, is done everywhere.
    It is not done in Vaishnava sampradAya-s of madhva, rAmAnuja, chaitanya and others.

    Moreover, being "done everywhere" is not the criterion for determining right action in sanAtana-dharma. Meat-eating is "done everywhere." God-man worship is "done everywhere." Politically-correct revisionism of conservative, dharmic, social standards is "done everywhere." That does not make those things correct.

    The religious books say that Lord Shiva and Parvati worshipped Shree Ganesh on the occasion of their marriage.
    In sanAtana-dharma, the only "religious books" which enjoy universal authority are the shruti-s and those smRiti-s which uphold the shruti-s.

    Many people find this surprising. But in 100th verse of Bal Kand of ‘Ramcharitamanas’ composed by Tulsidas
    .... is not the authority on the rAmAyaNa. The original work by vALmIki is the oldest, extant version of the events of the rAmAyaNa, and is universally accepted as the undisputed authority (with the exception of mAdhva-vaiShNava-s who consider an older version of the epic to be the original).

    this is explained very convincingly. He said: This ‘Leela’ can only be understood by a true believer. As long as Shree Ganesh remains in the form of Maha Ganesh, he is the first complete free person from the beginning, middle and end of the creation of the universe. But when he takes the form of the son of Shiva and Parvati, a new chapter begins in his Leela. Undoubtedly this chapter is an inspiration to all of us.
    Whether this is true of tuLasi-dAs or not, I cannot say. But if he did indeed write that, then it contradicts what is stated in shruti, which is that nArAyaNa is brahman, and He is the only free person from the beginning, middle, and end of the creation of the universe. It is He from whom everything originates, and He into whom it all returns. Before the creation, it is He only who exists. This is a cardinal teaching of vedAnta, and hence, anyone who considers that there is another free person who transcends all this, is accepting a non-vedAntic view of a second brahman, which is a heretical doctrine. People who propose such views have no business arrogating to themselves the authority of determining what is and is not authentic Vaishnavism.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

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    Re: Ganapathi pooja in Vaishnavism

    Pranam

    वक्रतुण्ड महाकाय सुर्यकोटि समप्रभ

    निर्विघ्नं कुरु मे देव सर्वकार्येषु सर्वदा

    It would be wrong for me insist or expect, on a Vaisnava thread, the worship of Ganesha the foremost of ganas.

    It is up an individual or sect to follow their rules and interpretation of Ganesh as they see fit. There is no denying, the agra puja of Ganesh the gori putra in Satyanarayan Katha. Most Hindus will see Ganesh or Vinayak as Gori putra, with a few exception of Vaishnava sect and may be, come up as some different deity but they would not be convincing the majority of Hindus.

    There are many Vaishnava especially in north, east and west who are largely influenced by Go-Swami Tulsidas that they would invoke Ganesha first in any endeavour.

    There is also one very interesting past time that is performed within JaganNath lila, in Puri, every year on snan yatra day after bathing the deities both Krishna and Baladev are decorated in the image of Lord Ganesh.

    Off course there are reference in sruti/smriti text of Ganapati, subject to interpretation which would convince some and not the others depending on predilection

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

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    Re: Ganapathi pooja in Vaishnavism

    Namaste all
    Quote Originally Posted by Viraja View Post
    I think if we felt we need not worship Sri Ganapathi or any other devata other than Sriman Narayana, we have the freedom to do so (as per VA we do not need other deities). But, I think we need to keep this information to ourselves, merely posting in this forum with this question itself, generates feelings among others that we are disrespecting Sri Ganapathi, when actually the fact is that we are merely questioning our right to fall to the feet of only 1 lord as opposed to many! (For example, tell a strict Shaiva that he has to worship mother Lakshmi, he will ask why?).
    Quote Originally Posted by jignyAsu View Post
    I would like to add one more point towards the thread. A/c to SriVaishnavas there is nothing that one can get from any deity that Vishnu can't give. If we require Lord Ganesha to raise our Muladhara Chakra or remove obstacle, it would equate to saying that Krishna cannot do that. If we require Navagraha to rid us of our problem then it would mean that Rama cannot solve that problem. That's the reason why looking upto another deity is considered a setback. This is true not only for moksha but also for money, yogic siddhi, kaivalya, beautiful wife etc.
    Scriptures approve worship of the gods, eternally liberated souls, etc., the only question is what of all that is common for Vaishnava practice.
    Here I will give a brief passage from the Brahma-vaivarta purana
    (Brahma-vaivarta puranam. Translated into English by Rajendra Nath Sen. Published 1920 by Panini Office in Allahabad)
    http://www.archive.org/stream/brahma...ge/11/mode/1up

    Krishna janma khanda, ch. CXXIII.54-59, p. 534.
    where Radha eulogised Ganesha "You are the supreme Brahma ... there is none superior to you ... you cause the gods to manifest themselves".

    Some people do not understand how this kind of worship of deities such as Ganesha is not actually addressed to him, ie is not addressed to Ganesha but is addressed to the Supreme Lord, Supreme Brahman. If we carefully examine Radha's eulogy we can clearly see that the words "You are the supreme Brahma ... there is none superior to you ... you cause the gods to manifest themselves" can not be applied to Ganesha who is just a jiva soul (jivatma).
    How do we know that these words are not really addressed to Ganesha?
    Not one jiva soul or jivatma is supreme Brahman, not one jiva soul or jivatma can be described as "there is none superior to you" and also "you cause the gods to manifest themselves". Obviously only the Supreme Lord who is supreme Brahman or paramatma can be described with these words. So Radha's eulogy of Ganesha is, obviously, addressed not to him but to the paramatma or the supreme Lord situated in his heart. This paramatma is called antaryami or the Supersoul existing in everyone's heart.
    That's the point. A Vaishnava should keep in mind when gods (sometimes called "demigods"), eternally liberated souls and other divine beings have been eulogised in this manner, these words are addressed to the Lord. So they are not worshiped as an independent divinities.

    There is no provision for Vaishnavas that only the supreme Lord should be worshiped. For example shruti scriptures enjoin worship of the guru:

    yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau

    "we should have bhakti (devotion) towards both the Lord and the spiritual master" (Svetasvatara Upanisad 6.23)


    Should a Vaishnava think "I do not need to worship anyone other than God (the Supreme Lord)"?
    Obviously not.

    regards

  10. #100

    Re: Ganapathi pooja in Vaishnavism

    Quote Originally Posted by brahma jijnasa View Post
    Scriptures approve worship of the gods, eternally liberated souls, etc., the only question is what of all that is common for Vaishnava practice.
    By "Vaishnava practice," brahma jijnasa is of course referring to his understanding of "Hare Krishna practice." Hare Krishnas don't represent Vaishnavaism, and brahma-jijnasa does not exactly represent Hare Krishnas.

    There is no provision for Vaishnavas that only the supreme Lord should be worshiped. For example shruti scriptures enjoin worship of the guru:

    yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau

    "we should have bhakti (devotion) towards both the Lord and the spiritual master" (Svetasvatara Upanisad 6.23)


    Should a Vaishnava think "I do not need to worship anyone other than God (the Supreme Lord)"?
    Obviously not.
    This is a typical example of what is known as a strawman. The original position is that a Vaishnava need not worship any other deva. Now brahma-jijnasa hopes to refute this by pointing to the worship of the guru as requirement for a Vaishnava. Except that the guru is not a deva, and saying that one need not worship any other deva is not contradicted by a requirement that one should worship one's guru.

    It really is bizarre, that a member of a sect that elevates one specific form of Vishnu as being superior to the rest, will nevertheless try to rationalize worship of other devas.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

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