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Thread: Ganapathi pooja in Vaishnavism

  1. #131
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    Re: Ganapathi pooja in Vaishnavism

    Quote Originally Posted by jignyAsu View Post
    Are you stating this from a Vaishnava POV or your understanding as a Shaiva?
    It is the view of most Shaivas as far as I have seen, and the view of most Shaiva Acharyas. It is also my personal opinion based on my understanding of scripture.
    I do know that most Sri Vaishnavas do not accept Ganesha's existence, but the Madhva Vaiahnavas do, and consider him a jiva. I have not read enough about other Vaishnava traditions to comment on their views about Ganesha.
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


    A Shaivite library
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  2. #132

    Re: Ganapathi pooja in Vaishnavism

    Just FYI, here is Rg veda saMhitA 2.23 with Griffith's translation, for anyone who is interested. As a smArtha, I'm inclined to believe in a Vedic basis for gaNesha, but I'm not entirely convinced from reading this. The word "gaNapati" is clearly there, but it isn't a proper noun and apparently is not taken as such in Griffith's translation (who follows Shayana if I am not mistaken). The rest of the mantras do not contain any reference to distinguishing features of gaNesha (i.e. being remover of obstacles, having four arms, having rudra/shiva as father, having elephant-face, etc).

    ghaṇānāṃ tvā ghaṇapatiṃ havāmahe kaviṃ kavīnāmupamaśravastamam |
    jyeṣṭharājaṃ brahmaṇāṃ brahmaṇas pata ā naḥ ṣṛṇvannūtibhiḥ sīda sādanam ||
    devāścit te asurya pracetaso bṛhaspate yajñiyaṃ bhāghamānaśuḥ |
    usrā iva sūryo jyotiṣā maho viśveṣāmijjanitā brahmaṇāmasi ||
    ā vibādhyā parirāpastamāṃsi ca jyotiṣmantaṃ rathaṃ ṛtasya tiṣṭhasi |
    bṛhaspate bhīmamamitradambhanaṃ rakṣohaṇaṃghotrabhidaṃ svarvidam ||
    sunītibhirnayasi trāyase janaṃ yastubhyaṃ dāśān na tamaṃho aśnavat |
    brahmadviṣastapano manyumīrasi bṛhaspate mahi tat te mahitvanam ||
    na tamaṃho na duritaṃ kutaścana nārātayastitirurna dvayāvinaḥ |
    viśvā idasmād dhvaraso vi bādhase yaṃ sughopā rakṣasi brahmaṇas pate ||
    tvaṃ no ghopāḥ pathikṛd vicakṣaṇastava vratāya matibhirjarāmahe |
    bṛhaspate yo no abhi hvaro dadhe svā taṃ marmartu duchunā harasvatī ||
    uta vā yo no marcayādanāghaso.arātīvā martaḥ sānuko vṛkaḥ |
    bṛhaspate apa taṃ vartayā pathaḥ sughaṃ no asyai devavītaye kṛdhi ||
    trātāraṃ tvā tanūnāṃ havāmahe.avaspartaradhivaktāramasmayum |
    bṛhaspate devanido ni barhaya mā durevā uttaraṃ sumnamun naśan ||
    tvayā vayaṃ suvṛdhā brahmaṇas pate spārhā vasu manuṣyā dadīmahi |
    yā no dūre taḷito yā arātayo.abhi santi jambhayā tā anapnasaḥ ||
    tvayā vayamuttamaṃ dhīmahe vayo bṛhaspate papriṇā sasninā yujā |
    mā no duḥśaṃso abhidipsurīśata pra suśaṃsā matibhistāriṣīmahi ||
    anānudo vṛṣabho jaghmirāhavaṃ niṣṭaptā śatruṃ pṛtanāsusāsahiḥ |
    asi satya ṛṇayā brahmaṇas pata ughrasya cid damitā vīḷuharṣiṇaḥ ||
    adevena manasā yo riśaṇyati śāsāmughro manyamāno jighāṃsati |
    bṛhaspate ma praṇak tasya no vadho ni karma manyuṃ durevasya śardhataḥ ||
    bhareṣu havyo namasopasadyo ghantā vājeṣu sanitā dhanaṃ dhanam |
    viśvā idaryo abhidipsvo mṛdho bṛhaspatirvi vavarhā rathāṃ iva ||
    tejiṣthayā tapani rakṣasastapa ye tvā nide dadhire dṛṣṭavīryam |
    āvistat kṛṣva yadasat ta ukthyaṃ bṛhaspate vi parirāpo ardaya ||
    bṛhaspate ati yadaryo arhād dyumad vibhāti kratumajjaneṣu |
    yad dīdayacchavasa ṛtaprajāta tadasmasu draviṇaṃ dhehicitram ||
    mā na stenebhyo ye abhi druhas pade nirāmiṇo ripavo.anneṣu jāghṛdhuḥ |
    ā devānāmohate vi vrayo hṛdi bṛhaspate naparaḥ sāmno viduḥ ||
    viśvebhyo hi tvā bhuvanebhyas pari tvaṣṭājanat sāmnaḥ sāmnaḥ kaviḥ |
    sa ṛṇacid ṛṇayā brahmaṇas patirdruho hantā maha ṛtasya dhartari ||
    tava śriye vyajihīta parvato ghavāṃ ghotramudasṛjo yadaṅghiraḥ |
    indreṇa yujā tamasā parīvṛtaṃ bṛhaspate nirapāmaubjo arṇavam ||
    brahmaṇas pate tvamasya yantā sūktasya bodhi tanayaṃ ca jinva |
    viśvaṃ tad bhadraṃ yadavanti devā bṛhad vadema ... ||

    1. WE call thee, Lord and Leader of the heavenly hosts, the wise among the wise, the famousest of all,
    The King supreme of prayers, O Brahmaṇaspati: hear us with help; sit down in place of sacrifice.
    2 Bṛhaspati, God immortal! verily the Gods have gained from thee, the wise, a share in holy rites.
    As with great light the Sun brings forth the rays of morn, so thou alone art Father of all sacred prayer.
    3 When thou hast chased away revilers and the gloom, thou mountest the refulgent car of sacrifice;
    The awful car, Bṛhaspati, that quells the foe, slays demons, cleaves the stall of kine, and finds the light.
    4 Thou leadest with good guidance and preservest men; distress o’ertakes not him who offers gifts to thee.
    Him who hates prayer thou punishest, Bṛhaspati, quelling his wrath: herein is thy great mightiness.
    5 No sorrow, no distress from any side, no foes, no creatures double-tongued have overcome the man,—
    Thou drivest all seductive fiends away from him whom, careful guard, thou keepest Brahmaṇaspati.
    6 Thou art our keeper, wise, preparer of our paths: we, for thy service, sing to thee with hymns of praise.
    Bṛhaspati, whoever lays a snare for us, him may his evil fate, precipitate, destroy.
    7 Him, too, who threatens us without offence of ours, the evilminded, arrogant, rapacious man,—
    Him turn thou from our path away, Bṛhaspati: give us fair access to this banquet of the Gods.
    8 Thee as protector of our bodies we invoke, thee, saviour, as the comforter who loveth us.
    Strike, O Bṛhaspati, the Gods’ revilers down, and let not the unrighteous come to highest bliss.
    9 Through thee, kind prosperer, O Brahmaṇaspati, may we obtain the wealth of Men which all desire:
    And all our enemies, who near or far away prevail against us, crush, and leave them destitute.
    10 With thee as our own rich and liberal ally may we, Bṛhaspati, gain highest power of life.
    Let not the guileful wicked man be lord of us:—still may we prosper, singing goodly hymns of praise.
    11 Strong, never yielding, hastening to the battle-cry, consumer of the foe, victorious in the strife,
    Thou art sin's true avenger, Brahmaṇaspati, who tamest e’en the fierce, the wildly passionate.
    12 Whoso with mind ungodly seeks to do us harm, who, deeming him a man of might mid lords, would slay,—
    Let not his deadly blow reach us, Bṛhaspati; may we humiliate the strong ill-doer's wrath.
    13 The mover mid the spoil, the winner of all wealth, to be invoked in fight and reverently adored,
    Bṛhaspati hath overthrown like cars of war all wicked enemies who fain would injure us.
    14 Burn up the demons with thy fiercest flaming brand, those who have scorned thee in thy manifested might.
    Show forth that power that shall deserve the hymn of praise: destroy the evil speakers, O Bṛhaspati.
    15 Bṛhaspati, that which the foe deserves not which shines among the folk effectual, splendid,
    That, Son of Law I which is with might refulgent-that treasure wonderful bestow thou on us.
    16 Give us not up to those who, foes in ambuscade, are greedy for the wealth of him who sits at ease,
    Who cherish in their heart abandonment of Gods. Bṛhaspati, no further rest shall they obtain.
    17 For Tvaṣṭar, he who knows each sacred song, brought thee to life, preeminent o’er all the things that be.
    Guilt-scourger, guilt-avenger is Bṛhaspati, who slays the spoiler and upholds the mighty Law.
    18 The mountain, for thy glory, cleft itself apart when, Aṅgiras! thou openedst the stall of kine.
    Thou, O Bṛhaspati, with Indra for ally didst hurl down water-floods which gloom had compassed round.
    19 O Brahmaṇaspati, be thou controller of this our hymn and prosper thou our children.
    All that the Gods regard with love is blessed. Loud may we speak, with heroes, in assembly.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  3. #133

    Re: Ganapathi pooja in Vaishnavism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    Pranam



    And you think your statement has any meaning!
    OK GP, have it your way. It's meaningless to say that nArAyaNa is the supreme brahman based on statements from the taittirIya AraNyaka, which all vedAnta schools, including that of Adi shankara, accept as shruti. Meanwhile, it's meaningful to say that the name "nArAyaNa" not being mentioned in currently extant saMhitA-s implies something, even though all vedAnta schools, including that of Adi shankara, give no more significance to the saMhitA than to the rest of shruti.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  4. #134
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    Re: Ganapathi pooja in Vaishnavism

    Pranam

    Quote Originally Posted by philosoraptor View Post
    OK GP, have it your way. ---, including that of Adi shankara,

    It is meaningless to say have it your way only then to explain it your way.

    Mentioning Narayan was only to draw to your attention, your own statement about sruti or lack of it for Ganesha.

    Since you are so fixed on Vedanta at least give some credit to Adi Shankara, he would not have eulogised Ganesha if he was not a Vedic deity, would he?

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  5. #135
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    Re: Ganapathi pooja in Vaishnavism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post

    Since you are so fixed on Vedanta at least give some credit to Adi Shankara, he would not have eulogised Ganesha if he was not a Vedic deity, would he?
    The stotra you have cited is a later work falsely attributed to Shankaracharya. Shankaracharya has explicitly mentioned in his Gita Bhashya that Vinayaka is not to be worshipped in the commentary to verse 9.23.
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


    A Shaivite library
    http://www.scribd.com/HinduismLibrary

  6. #136

    Re: Ganapathi pooja in Vaishnavism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    It is meaningless to say have it your way only then to explain it your way.

    Mentioning Narayan was only to draw to your attention, your own statement about sruti or lack of it for Ganesha.
    You don't have any idea what you are talking about. Again, let me just restate my point: mahAnArayaNa upaniShad which equates nArAyaNa with brahman is recognized as an authentic shruti even by non-Vaishnavas. It's acceptance across different sampradAya lines reinforces its authenticity. By contrast, there is no universally-accepted shruti pramAna I am aware of which recognizes the existence of gaNesha. I am happy to be proven wrong on this; I don't have a strong feeling about it one way or another.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  7. #137

    Re: Ganapathi pooja in Vaishnavism

    Quote Originally Posted by Omkara View Post
    The stotra you have cited is a later work falsely attributed to Shankaracharya. Shankaracharya has explicitly mentioned in his Gita Bhashya that Vinayaka is not to be worshipped in the commentary to verse 9.23.
    Omkar, are you sure about that reference? I checked shankara's commentary to 9.23 in Sanskrit and found no reference to gaNesha or viNAyaka.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  8. #138

    Re: Ganapathi pooja in Vaishnavism

    Quote Originally Posted by philosoraptor View Post
    You don't have any idea what you are talking about. Again, let me just restate my point: mahAnArayaNa upaniShad which equates nArAyaNa with brahman is recognized as an authentic shruti even by non-Vaishnavas. It's acceptance across different sampradAya lines reinforces its authenticity. By contrast, there is no universally-accepted shruti pramAna I am aware of which recognizes the existence of gaNesha. I am happy to be proven wrong on this; I don't have a strong feeling about it one way or another.
    I dislike responding to my own postings, but I just remembered the following reference which is germane to our discussion:

    tatpuruShAya vihmahe vakratuNDAya dhImahi |
    tanno dantiH prachodayAt || MNU (dp) 25 ||
    "We meditate upon that Purusha. For that purpose, we meditate upon 'Vakratunda' - the Lord of the curved trunk. May the Lord with the elephant face invigorate us." (mahAnArAyaNa upaniShad 25 - NASR)


    That would indeed seem to be a stronger reference in favor of gaNesha. How do Sri Vaishnavas interpret this?
    Last edited by philosoraptor; 22 September 2013 at 11:50 AM.
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  9. #139
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    Re: Ganapathi pooja in Vaishnavism

    Quote Originally Posted by Omkara View Post
    The stotra you have cited is a later work falsely attributed to Shankaracharya. Shankaracharya has explicitly mentioned in his Gita Bhashya that Vinayaka is not to be worshipped in the commentary to verse 9.23.
    Namaste,

    I did not find mention of Vinayaka in 9.23, but found in 9.25. It does mention the word vinayaka, but from Hindi Commentary, vinayaka could mean a 'particular class of demon'

    Sanskrit:

    भूतानि विनायकमातृगणचतुर्भगिन्यादीनि यान्ति भूतेज्याः भूतानां पूजकाः। यान्ति मद्याजिनः मद्यजनशीलाः वैष्णवाः मामेव यान्ति। 9.25

    Hindi

    भूतोंकी पूजा करनेवाले विनायक, षोडशमातृकागण और चतुर्भगिनी आदि भूतगणोंको पाते हैं तथा मेरा पूजन करनेवाले वैष्णव भक्त अवश्यमेव मुझे ही पाते हैं। 9.25



    ---------

    I have searched for atharvashirsha and Ganesh atharvashirsha is not hard to find by

    The question is whether it is genuine. It is very popular in Maharashtra. It is embedded in Ganesh temple at Ranjangaon. Some say it was written in 16th - 17th century.

    According to Gita Press, all 5 atharvashirsha are from atharveda and ancient. As a pramana, they are find their mention in smriti-s like atri, vasistha, gautam, shankha, etc.

    शतरुद्रियमथर्वशिरस्त्रिसुपर्ण ... महाव्रतम्* ।
    Shankha Smriti 19.4,

    म्धून्यघमर्षणमथर्वशिरो रुद्रा ... पावनानि ।
    Gautam Smriti 19.6

    Further, the author of book, Radhe Shyam Khemkha, says. Prior to Adi Shankara, Shrihansayogi in his Gita bhashya mentions devi atharvashirsha

    He further says that the all-acceptance of atharvashirsha-s can be concluded by saying that in Veda-shakha-s karmakand and granthas teaching samskara find mention of moola atharvashirsha paatha.

    Ganesh Atharvashirsha

    Om Namaste Ganpataye
    Tvameva Pratyaksham Tatvamasi
    Tvamev Kevalam Kartasi
    Tvamev Kevalam Dhartasi
    Tvamev Kevlam Hartasi
    Tvamev Sarvam Khalvidam Bramhasi
    Tvam Sakshadatmasi Nityam || 1 ||


    O Lord Ganesha
    I Pay my deep homage to you, the Lord of the Deva-Gana
    You are the first facet of the Bramha-Tatva to arise
    You have alone created this Entire universe
    You alone can maintain this universe
    You are indeed the all conquering supreme Lord
    Indeed you are the "ATMA" || 1 ||

    http://www.adwaitjoshi.com/atharvashirsha.php
    http://www.panditjiusa.com/ganapati_atharvashirsha.htm

    scribd

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/52740011/ATHARVASHIRSHA
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/63794707/atharvashirsha
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/119732763/...Atharvashirsha

    Though my family's main deity or central deity is Lord Shiva, I have equal respect for 'Supreme Personality of Godhead', as we daily worship him along with nava-graha puja - Nahi ninda Nyaya

    Namo Naranayana
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  10. #140
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    Re: Ganapathi pooja in Vaishnavism

    Quote Originally Posted by philosoraptor View Post
    Omkar, are you sure about that reference? I checked shankara's commentary to 9.23 in Sanskrit and found no reference to gaNesha or viNAyaka.
    It is 9.25. My mistake. I was quoting from memory.

    There was a long discussion about it on the advaita mailing list here- http://www.advaita-vedanta.org/archi...ead.html#27958
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


    A Shaivite library
    http://www.scribd.com/HinduismLibrary

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