Ganapathi pooja in Vaishnavism

[Viraja]

Regarding elephant faced Nitya Suri, the Sri Vaishnavas worship one called Gajananar - He has a Thiruman and His tusk is not broken. He is celebrated as Vishwaksenar's minister in Vishnu Sahasrana slokham - yasya dwirada vaktrAdyAH.... NathamunigaL is considered to be His amsam. I believe there is a Sannadhi of the Nitya Suri somewhere - in Tirumala or so. He is not to be confused with the Rudra GaNa Vinayaka.

Oh, wow! This is new to me.. I wonder if then, that in Vaishnava pujas such as Sri Satyanarayana puja, it is meant to give respect first to this Sri Gajananar first, and in the course of time, people started believing it is to Sri Ganesha instead...

[Anirudh]

I now understand that Sri Ganesha is an eternally liberated associate of Sriman Narayana in Vaikuntha, who lives in the spiritual sky. But this view is not so much heard-of in Vaishnavam? I have not read any work anywhere about Sri Ganesha's association in any kind with Lord Sriman Narayana? Where can I learn more about this?

May be time to check with Islamic website or Zakir and grace us with the details they offer ...

[jignyAsu]

Oh, wow! This is new to me.. I wonder if then, that in Vaishnava pujas such as Sri Satyanarayana puja, it is meant to give respect first to this Sri Gajananar first, and in the course of time, people started believing it is to Sri Ganesha instead...

SathyaNarayana pooja is not a part of the Sri Vaishnava tradition as commonly misunderstood. It seems to be of recent origin and I am sure they are not concerned with worshipping any Nitya Suri like Gajananar etc. They are also not associated with an ancient Guru Parampara of any kind. So, we shouldn't understand the Sri Vaishnava tradition based on this. He is worshipped in all US Sri Vaishnava temple because He has many Andra devotees and since He is Narayana, it is considered ok. Again an example on how only the 80 or so south Indian Divya Desas are to be considered a model for SriVaishnava practices.

In Sri Vaishnavam, Sri Vishwaksenar is always worshipped during the start of every Yagna and Gajananar worship is not very widespread. But irrespective, none of the associates are worshipped separetly or without Vaishnava symbols. This is a very important point to note.

[smaranam]

Thank you for the clarification, I now understand that Sri Ganesha is an eternally liberated associate of Sriman Narayana in Vaikuntha, who lives in the spiritual sky. But this view is not so much heard-of in Vaishnavam? I have not read any work anywhere about Sri Ganesha's association in any kind with Lord Sriman Narayana? Where can I learn more about this?

Namaste VirajaJi

What this is saying, is that the devas are pure devotees of BhagvAn in VaikunTha. DurgA, GaNesh, BramhA, SadAshiva, Lakshmi, Saraswati...

When Lakshmi (stand-alone without NArAyaNa), DurgA/KAli, Saraswati, GaNesh are worshipped in the material world, it is sakAm bhakti, fruitive prayers with expectation of some gain (as opposed to nishkAm bhakti). People who want material gains are "in the material world" Therefore such worship is of this world, and this is what Shri KRshNa calls "avidhipUrvakam" saying it gives temporary fruits.
It is not shAsvat - eternal.

Here Jiva Goswami is saying these are the material-world demigod positions for sakAm bhakti.
We can see this.
Saraswati - to do well in exams / musical career
Ganesh - wealth/obstacles
Lakshmi -prosperity
DurgA - for kula (family) well-being & prosperity

Whereas, in VaikunTha (which by the way includes the spiritual KailAsh of SadAshiva), they are not playing this role. They are pure devotee associates of NArAyaNa, and glorify Him. They are one big family.

To know which DurgA you are worshipping, you would introspect yr motives - are they pure, spiritual? nishkAm? Also, VaishNav do not worship all these as the Supreme Lord, but as His pArshads, associates.
Therefore the verse says "abhimukhAn" - facing the Lord. They make a semicircle around Him.

Haribol _/\_

[Viraja]

Namaste jignyAsu ji and Smaranam ji

Thank you for the clarifications. To sum it up:

i) As per jignyAsu ji's clarification, it appears to me that worship of Sri Ganesha has no grounding in Sri Vaishnava pujas.

ii) As per Smaranam ji's clarification, it appears that Sri Ganesha (and Durga, Lakshmi...) being the pure devotees and eternal associates of Sriman Narayana, that they are worshiped first during Sri Vaishnav pujas, but the devotees doing so mainly for reasons of removal of obstacles, prosperity and such..

Thank you both!

[smaranam]

So if your community is having GaNesh Utsav (festival) for several days from GaNesh Chaturthi, or yr friend does, as a VaishNav you can always be there to welcome Him in that consciousness, not as THE Supreme.

In Maharashtra, the tradition is to sing all aartis of 5-6 devas starting with GaNesh and ending with the Supreme NArAyaNa -

kAyena vAchA manas endriyervat
budhyAtmanavA prakRti svabhAvAt
karomi yadyat sakalam parasmai
NArAyaNAyeti samarapayAmi ... (SB quote)

Why? Because when GaNesh visits towns, communities and homes each year, all Devas are present on the occasion always. Even if you cannot see them there.
Or at any time, this is the bhAv. I am not suggesting this is a VaishNav thing, but there is this oneness spirit.

So, the aarati series (Ganesh durga shankar vitthal dattatreya) ends with a beautiful aarti of the Supreme Whole NArAyaNa composed by Sant NAmdev (a great devotee of ViTThal i.e. KRshNa in sakhya ras), which includes this SB verse above, sharanagati verse sung by Ramanuj always (tvameva mata...)
and finally all names of Ram KRshNa Hari and the Mahamantra.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIDlXNSNwA4


Same is said in Gauranga's aarati - Shiva Shuka NArad BramhA all attend Gauranga's aarti (shive shuke narada preme gada gada...)

Hari Hari Bol

[smaranam]

Thank you for the clarifications. To sum it up:

ii) As per Smaranam ji's clarification, it appears that Sri Ganesha (and Durga, Lakshmi...) being the pure devotees and eternal associates of Sriman Narayana, that they are worshiped first during Sri Vaishnav pujas, but the devotees doing so mainly for reasons of removal of obstacles, prosperity and such..

No, it is because the Lord tells Uddhav to worship Him with His associates, merely to honor them as that, not for material gains. Please do not mix the two.

The stand-alone worship of these as Supreme is not VaishNav.

I think the pArshad worship is followed mostly in Madhva tradition. However, VaishNavas do not generally worship them explicitly, following the Gita and because

aakAshAt patitam toyam yathA gacchati sAgaram
sarva deva namaskaran keshavam prati gacchati ||

Just as raindrops from the sky ultimately meet the ocean,
namaskAr to any deva reaches Keshav (KRshNa, VishNu) alone.

Keshava is the Lord of Ka (BramhA) and Isha (Shiva).

[Viraja]

Oh, yes, you bet, Smaranamji! I'll be the first one at the temple to celebrate Sri Ganesh chaturthi. When I ran my Ketu Mahadasha earlier, honestly, I worshiped Sri Ganesha to rid of my obstacles with my career. I used to prepare 51 modaks to be offered in to the yagna fire at the temple on Ganesh Chaturthi day for 3 subsequent years!

Now I shall attend Sri Ganesh ji's puja with a sincere devotion to Lord Narayan's purest devotee. Thank you.

[jignyAsu]

Now I shall attend Sri Ganesh ji's puja with a sincere devotion to Lord Narayan's purest devotee. Thank you.

A Sri Vaishnava would say that in that puja Sri Ganesh has already been worshipped as the highest Brahman using Vedic mantras and Shaiva agamas etc. So that is not equivalent to worshipping a pure devotee of Sriman Narayana. There's no pure eternal devotee version of gods in SriVaishnavam.

Nor is it intended by the thousands of devotees assembled there to worship Sri Ganesh as a devotee. Saying so may hurt their feelings.

Its the difference between worshipping a Vaishnava as a servant of Lord Narayana as opposed to worshipping him/her as being a Jagat Karana - both are different. And the theerta prasada that one receives here is influenced by the mantras. If you think Narayana mantras/prasad have one effect worship of other deities must certainly have another effect.

Just making sure you understand the difference in Vaishnava philosophies, that's all and one is not to be confused with the other. In the end, it is the tradition that appeals to you the most be it Shaiva or Vaishnava or Shakta.

[smaranam]

Oh, yes, you bet, Smaranamji! I'll be the first one at the temple to celebrate Sri Ganesh chaturthi.

Sure, that is totally upto you as long as the consciousness is VaishNav.

Just so we are all on the same page...

When I ran my Ketu Mahadasha earlier, honestly, I worshiped Sri Ganesha to rid of my obstacles with my career. I used to prepare 51 modaks to be offered in to the yagna fire at the temple on Ganesh Chaturthi day for 3 subsequent years!

This is not a VaishNav thing to do.

Now I shall attend Sri Ganesh ji's puja with a sincere devotion to Lord Narayan's purest devotee. Thank you.

This is VaishNav, but optional