Ganapathi pooja in Vaishnavism

[Viraja]

A Sri Vaishnava would say that in that puja Sri Ganesh has already been worshipped as the highest Brahman using Vedic mantras and Shaiva agamas etc. So that is not equivalent to worshipping a pure devotee of Sriman Narayana. There's no pure eternal devotee version of gods in SriVaishnavam.

Nor is it intended by the thousands of devotees assembled there to worship Sri Ganesh as a devotee. Saying so may hurt their feelings.

Its the difference between worshipping a Vaishnava as a servant of Lord Narayana as opposed to worshipping him/her as being a Jagat Karana - both are different. And the theerta prasada that one receives here is influenced by the mantras. If you think Narayana mantras/prasad have one effect worship of other deities must certainly have another effect.

Just making sure you understand the difference in Vaishnava philosophies, that's all and one is not to be confused with the other. In the end, it is the tradition that appeals to you the most be it Shaiva or Vaishnava or Shakta.

You have a very important point here, jignyAsu ji. Maybe that explains why Vaishnavas might celebrate Ganesh Chaturthi at home but might not visit him at his temple? Anyway, I have noted your point well.

[smaranam]

A Sri Vaishnava would say that in that puja Sri Ganesh has already been worshipped as the highest Brahman using Vedic mantras and Shaiva agamas etc. So that is not equivalent to worshipping a pure devotee of Sriman Narayana. There's no pure eternal devotee version of gods in SriVaishnavam.

Nor is it intended by the thousands of devotees assembled there to worship Sri Ganesh as a devotee. Saying so may hurt their feelings.

Its the difference between worshipping a Vaishnava as a servant of Lord Narayana as opposed to worshipping him/her as being a Jagat Karana - both are different. And the theerta prasada that one receives here is influenced by the mantras. If you think Narayana mantras/prasad have one effect worship of other deities must certainly have another effect.

Just making sure you understand the difference in Vaishnava philosophies, that's all and one is not to be confused with the other. In the end, it is the tradition that appeals to you the most be it Shaiva or Vaishnava or Shakta.

Namaste,

Agreed, but how can you refuse prasad? Also, KRshNa in your heart knows your consciousness.
These are community celebrations and generally you don't find people saying to their next door neighbors "I am VaishNav I cannot participate" although, Virajaji has a choice

Don't join into chanting the Ganapati Atharvasheersha for instance, which says things like "tvam bramhaa tvam vishnu tvam rudra tvam indrascha agnischa vayuscha..."

Also, the aaratis praise each Deity as Supreme - This is a smarta thing to do and highly prevalent in Maharashtra. e.g. Durga - "you alone can protect us, who else can?" etc.

So, you don't have to sing all that. You don't have to declare to the others assembled that Ganesh is a pure devotee either.

You don't do the puja yourself, but just passive participation.
And oh yes, don't see the moon that day

_/\_ Haribol

[smaranam]

The whole idea is that they all share a common AtmA, the Lord also says in the BhAgvatam Canto4 - "never distinguish between Bramha Shiva and Me",
but surely this taken directly is not VaishNav.

[jignyAsu]

You have a very important point here, jignyAsu ji. Maybe that explains why Vaishnavas might celebrate Ganesh Chaturthi at home but might not visit him at his temple? Anyway, I have noted your point well.

This point is the instruction from all the Srivaishnava Acharyas of the great Guru Parampara. For a Sri Vaishnava, to seek another deity is strictly prohibited just like for a wife another man's association is. As per Sri Krishna, there is no need to resort to any deity for any purpose anyway.

And by "Vaishnava" I think you mean Sri Vaishnava here. No, they genuinely believe that not praying to Sri Ganesha will affect them. They will be visiting Ganesh temple for sure. Similarly with Nava grahas, too. As Smaranam says, for a Vaishnava to resort to anyone other than Lord Vishnu is strictly prohibited and is a source of downfall. I know that the Nava Grahas are a weakness for iyengars, but even for that we have Sriman Narayana who stands as Rahu, Ketu etc. in a divya desam out of His causeless mercy.

[philosoraptor]

In the yajur veda upAkarma vidhi which we did yesterday, there is a part in the beginning where one pays homage to ?Ganesha as per the Sri Vaishnava manual - it occurs before the mahA-sankalpa. However, I think it is not "Ganesha" per se but rather Vishvaksena or another associate - maybe someone could clarify.

EDIT: I just checked both of the Sri Vaishnava upAkarma manuals that I have - it is indeed "vighna navAraNam/vishvaksena dhyAnam" and NOT ganesha. Is Vishvaksena also considered to have an elephant's head? There is mention of a tusk in the shloka...

[jignyAsu]

Agreed, but how can you refuse prasad? Also, KRshNa in your heart knows your consciousness.
These are community celebrations and generally you don't find people saying to their next door neighbors "I am VaishNav I cannot participate" although, Virajaji has a choice

I do understand what you mean here. Some Hindus gets offended by the refusal and it is unfortunate. After all, the Vaishnava and Shaiva tradition is age old and we are not making up new things here.

And we have to stop somewhere here. It will be Lord Ganesh, Shiva prasad first. Then someone will offer us Sai or Aiyappa or Aiyanaar or Kalki baba prasad. If you believe that Krishna prasad effects you, then we can't assume that other prasads don't have any effect at all. All in all a very sensitive topic.

But with my own exprience, they sooner or later tend to understand. All my close friends know that I am a pure Vaishnava. They include Iyers, Shaivas and Murugan devotees and I only encourage them to become better in the tradition they have embraced.

One pointed devotion to one deity is not the same as hating other deities. The tragedy of today's Hinduism is not because we iyengars, iyers, shaivas and shaktas have our differences but its because we are less informed about our own tradition.

[jignyAsu]

In the yajur veda upAkarma vidhi which we did yesterday, there is a part in the beginning where one pays homage to ?Ganesha as per the Sri Vaishnava manual - it occurs before the mahA-sankalpa. However, I think it is not "Ganesha" per se but rather Vishvaksena or another associate - maybe someone could clarify.

EDIT: I just checked both of the Sri Vaishnava upAkarma manuals that I have - it is indeed "vighna navAraNam/vishvaksena dhyAnam" and NOT ganesha. Is Vishvaksena also considered to have an elephant's head? There is mention of a tusk in the shloka...

Yes indeed the Vignam in this slokha and also in Suklam Bhadaram Vishnum is strangely confused with Lord Ganesh. Sri Vishvaksenar is the leader of the Vishnu Ganas is invoked in all Yagnas in Sri Vaishnava temples.

He does not have a elephant head but Sri Gajananar does. The verse says that Vishvaksenar or Senai Mudaliyar has several Nitya suris reporting to Him including the elephant faced (Gajananar). We have Senai Mudaliyar's sannadhi is several Divya Desams and He is not elephant faced.

http://photos.divyadesam.com/aug-09/...ug-27-09.shtml


Sri Visvaksenar is an Acharya is our Sri Vaishnava Guru Parampara.

[smaranam]

If you believe that Krishna prasad effects you, then we can't assume that other prasads don't have any effect at all. All in all a very sensitive topic.

I have some good news. Guess who eats all that you offer to anyone on your list above? Of course it is that natkhat Gopal who does

BG 9.23: Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith actually worship only Me, O son of Kuntī, but they do so in a wrong way.
BG 9.24: I am the only enjoyer and master of all sacrifices. Therefore, those who do not recognize My true transcendental nature fall down.

The Lord is yadnya and yadnya-pati, yadnya-bhoktA. He accepts all offerings and all sacrifices. People put tulasi leaf on naivedya for DurgA Devi. Guess why? Because You Know Who is going to be the bhoktA.

upadRshTA amumantA bhartA bhoktA maheshwara... BG Chapter 13

Hari bolo _/\_

[philosoraptor]

Namaste,

Agreed, but how can you refuse prasad? Also, KRshNa in your heart knows your consciousness.
These are community celebrations and generally you don't find people saying to their next door neighbors "I am VaishNav I cannot participate" although, Virajaji has a choice

Don't join into chanting the Ganapati Atharvasheersha for instance, which says things like "tvam bramhaa tvam vishnu tvam rudra tvam indrascha agnischa vayuscha..."

Also, the aaratis praise each Deity as Supreme - This is a smarta thing to do and highly prevalent in Maharashtra. e.g. Durga - "you alone can protect us, who else can?" etc.

So, you don't have to sing all that. You don't have to declare to the others assembled that Ganesh is a pure devotee either.

You don't do the puja yourself, but just passive participation.
And oh yes, don't see the moon that day

_/\_ Haribol

Pranams,

I think the issue is one of propriety. Just like when a boy is married to a girl, is it ok for that boy to be seen speaking casually and being friendly to other girls who are not his wife? Similarly, if one has surrendered to shrIman nArAyaNa, then he does not seek to worship any other deva. This is my understanding of the culture. Also, just FYI, I was born a smArtha and my family does do these puja-s. But I honestly just go along with it because it is expected. I would not be bothered if our family stopped doing them.

[jignyAsu]

I have some good news. Guess who eats all that you offer to anyone on your list above? Of course it is that natkhat Gopal who does

Hare Krsna Mataji,

The effect of a prasad depends on the deity, the Agamas with which the deity was installed, mantras chanted in the temple, the preists, saints who have sung praise of the deity, the devotees assembled etc. The individual's mindset cannot change the effect of a prasad - atleast not significantly enough.

And we are not even talking about the Vedic deities here. There are so many babas in the country of different reputation and what about taking food offered by a Christian or a Muslim? Just by thinking that Keshava is the consumer of all prasad cannot possibly make all prasad auspicious. The Prasad changes one's mind and it is not the other way. A baby consuming different prasad also has different effects.

Atleast I always assert that no Hindu should deviate from a Vedic deity like Sriman Narayana, Lord Shiva, Kartikeya (Muruga), Shakti etc. The effect of prasad of even these great Vedic deities are different and the non-Vedic ones are not even in the picture here. This is the logical conclusion that comes out of philosophy that holds Vishnu supremacy.

The view of Sri Vaishnavas is that the worshippers of all these deities are great. However having coming this far by developing the mindset that VAsudevam sarvam iti, to worship other deities and consume their prasad is a (relative) set back. Again, yagnas or Sandhya Vandanam where various deities are worshipped is different from worshipping them in their own temples.

Ofcourse, Sri Vaishnavas still bow in respect to other deities but don't hang out there or consume any prasad that's all.