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Philosoraptor
"Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato
praNAm
Just for the record, smaranam did not say this on this thread, not in so many words or these words anyway such as downfall. However, this is indirectly implied by the 10 offences to Shri Hari's Holy names, padma purAN. It falls in the category of nAmaparAdh for those who chant harinAm, but all of these are implications.As Smaranam says, for a Vaishnava to resort to anyone other than Lord Vishnu is strictly prohibited and is a source of downfall.
Smaranam only pointed out what is and is not "a VaishNav thing to do"
In fact, a devotee does not need these rules - they are an automatic reaction. "I shall not join you in Ganpati Atharvasheersha, no way. Not even once, 21 times is out of the question"
Why? It is simple. MhAro ri giridhara gopAla, dUsarA na koyA...
________
Aside from this, all good points jignyAsuji, noted. For some, it may mean resorting to Atma-tattva-jnAna, to live in harmony with surroundings, but if a Hari-bhakta can stay in it like a kamala-patra (Lotus leaf), untouched, without having to resort to jnana, a big Haribol! After all, pure devotion is free of karma, jnana, anyAbhilAshA acc. to Rup Goswami.
_/\_
|| Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||
Namaste
To me, vaishnab in the line of sri chaitanya mahaprabhu should offer prem bhakti towads sri krishna only and in that way shiva ganapati etc gods are automatically satisfied.
I am quoting some lines from chaitanya charitamrita madhya lila 22nd chapter
1. krishna kripalu Arjunere lakshya kariya // Jagatere rakhiachen upadesh diya
Translation :: “Krishna is very much kripalu (mercyful) and so he has given instructions to the whole world by aiming at Arjuna”.
“ Hear again My supreme word, the most secret of all. As you are dearly beloved of Me, I tell you what is the best for you” -BG-18.64
“ Become my minded, My lover and adorer, a sacrificer to Me, bow yourself to Me, to Me you shall come; this is My pledge and promise to you, for dear are you to Me” -BG 18.65
2. Purba ajna veda dharma karma yoga jnan // sab sadhi seshe ai ajna balvan
Translation :: executing the procesess of previous orders such as vedic ritualistic ceremonies,karma, yoga and jnan etc , at the end ‘this order’ is balvan or powerful”. ‘ this order ‘ means above order.
3. “ Ai ajna bale bhakter sradhya yadi hoya // sarva karma tyag kari se krishna bhajaya”
Translation :: If the bhaktas have faith( sradhya) on ‘this order’ , leaving aside all other activities (sarva karma) they perform krishna bhajan or serve sri krishna
4. “sradhya sabde biswas kahe sudida nischoy // krishne bhakti kaile sarva karma krita haya
Translation :: the word sradhya means firm faith unto sri krishna. All the activities ( sarva karma) are done simply by rendering bhakti towards sri krishna.
5 “ Yatha tarurmula nishechanena // trapyanti tat-skandha bhujopasakha
Pranopaharacha cha yathendriyanam // tathaiba sarvarhanam uchyutejya”
Translation :: “ we need not pour water on the trunk braches or sub branches of a tree if we pour water on the root of it similarly when we supply food to the stomach the remaining indriyas or senses automatically satisfied. In the same way, if we render bhakti with firm faith to sri krishna , we need not satisfy other gods. ( Sri Mad Bhagavat-4.31.14)
6. “ bhakta batsal kritajna samartha badanya // hena krishna chadi pandit nahi bhaje anya”
Krishna is very kind to his bhaktas,he is always grateful and magnanimous , he posses all abilities. A pandit doees not give up Krishna to worship any one else.
All these above quotations from sri chaitanya charitamrita only show that vaishnab in the line of chaitanya mahaprabhu need not worship shiva ganesha narayana Vishnu etc etc because all these gods are satisfied when vaishnab offer bhakti with firm faith to sri Krishna.
Vishnu Sarvottama!
jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar
What you said is true for a mumuxu Srivaishnava, who are really hard to come by these days.
If you can beg for admissions in schools and colleges by paying donations or other means, and bow down or pay or take bribes to any number of human beings to get your job done, I don't see any problems whatsoever in anya devata upasana.
What really happens is people pick and choose religeous doctrines convenient to them and bypass whatever is inconvenient and start judging others as real or fake Vaishnavas. Do you take medicines if you are sick? Do you seek a lawyers's help if find yourself in legal trouble? How is worshipping of anya devata worse than these? What happened to your trust in Srimannarayana in these situations? So this is all selective choosing of whatever is convenient.
Most important thing is see the Lord's presence in all the Gods and honor them like you do to your parents, Acharyas, other devotees, and the whole of humanity with all its innumerable creatures.
Guard your Dharma, Burn the Myth, Promote the Truth, Crush the superstition.
Seeing shrIman nArAyaNa's presence in other devas is not mutually exclusive from the doctrine of worshiping nArAyaNa alone. On the contrary, it is precisely because the jnAni can see His presence in the other devas that he makes no separate effort to worship the devas.
As far as the issue of "picking religious doctrines that are convenient," I must say very frankly that I don't find Vaishnavism to be convenient in the least. All this reading of shAstra, waking up early in the morning to do sandhya-vandana, doing pUja, etc. etc. I just don't have much time left for recreational activities...
Philosoraptor
"Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato
Every SriVaishnava who has adminstered Pancha Samaskaram through a bonafide SriVaishnava Acharya is a mumuxu only. Because he wishes to do uninterrupted Kainkaryam to Sriman Narayana here and hereafter. I guess what you mean here by a 'mumuxu SriVaishnava' is someone that is ideal like Alwar Saints without any limitations. The instructions of exclusive Vishnu worship is meant for saints and sinners alike.
It is also pointed out that in Bhagavad Gita after discouraging worship of other gods, the kind Lord praises His exclusive worshippers even if they are not mumuxus and after Him for money only.
We resort to Sriman Narayana only to cure us of these limitations born out of anAdhi Karma. In Gita He says that His devotee even though a sinner should be considered great because having made the right decision he very soon gets rid of all his sins.
Resorting (or not) to other deities has got nothing to do with if one does dharma or adharma. For that matter, we are even advised against eating outside food. It cannot mean that those who are not ideal SriVaishnavas
should start eating outside.
This is not about judging anyone but laying out what the tradition actually is. No one talked about any Vaishnava being a fake.
I don't know why Sriman Narayana wouldn't want me to go to a doctor or a lawyer. As mentioned above if I am not an Alwar, it doesn't mean I should resort to other deities.
We SriVaishnavas do respect all devas and follow basic rules of respect like not pointing feet in their direction etc like we do to our parents or elders in general. We just refrain from worshipping any of these devas (or parents) as being a jagat karana with Vedic hymns and consume their prasad.
We Hindus are an amalgamation of very different traditions like Vaishnava, Shaiva, Shakta or recent Sai worshippers etc. holding mutual respect for each other. We will continue to teach the world on how to coexist peacefully with our differences. We should understand our differences and not be frowned upon if we take our Acharyas a bit more seriously.
Jai Sri Krishna!
In The Nectar of Devotion commentary by Srila Prabhupada it even says one should worship Ganapati before beginning anything else - I haven't ever seen anyone in ISKCON actually do that though.
Philosoraptor
"Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato
Namaste.Jai shri narayana. श्री गणेशाय नमः
Worshipping ganesha in vaishnwism is general thing. However vaishnwa doesn't worship ganesha is very weird and strange thing!
Traditional vaishnwas worship ganesha with same devotion as they worship Vishnu.
Sant eknath, who was a great of lord krishna was a maharashtrian vaishnwa. He taught the devotion to lord krishna and how to surrender him. In his commentey of bhagavat purana he praises both ganesha and sarasvati. Because they both r gods of knowledge and liberation is not possible without knowledge !
He praised him like this:
1) Shri Ekadanta Gajanana, I also bow to You. In the Present, You are making manifest the
Multiplicity in Unity, yet You are not disturbing the Unity (Advaita = Non-duality).
3)You are called Lambodara (having a big belly) because within You the whole world – both
moving and stationary exists and, therefore, You are really the nearest relative of all Beings!
(4) The family-life of the man who gets Your (auspicious) glimpse becomes happy and therefore, the
name Wighnaharta is becoming You very aptly.
(5) O Ganaraja! (the king of Ganas), Your face is joy itself. All the four accomplishments of human
life are Your face, arms, and Your tooth, which shines, gives light to the luminous bodies (stars,
planets etc).
(6) The Vedas and the Upanishads (which are respectively the ‘Primary doctrine’ and the
‘Secondary doctrine’, called Poorva-meemansa, and the Uttar-meemansa) are attached with love
to both of Your ears, and all the four kinds of speech, viz, the soundless Para, Pashyanti,
Madhyama, and Waikhari – are standing with folded hands in Your mouth. (They are at your
command).
(7) O, Vinayaka! Your vision is such that by its power, the whole world is seen as Atman and is
divine and gives happiness and contentment.
(8) Your belly is big which is full of joy, there is joy also in the navel; and the girdle around Your
middle, which is called Nagabandha, is enhancing your beauty.
(9) You are wearing the white cloth of Shuddha Sattwa (Pure Piety), and the golden ornaments on
Your body are appearing beautiful because of the beauty of Your own body.
(10) Prakriti and Purusha (the Female and the Male Principles) are Your two feet. You have
pressed them down under Your body and seated in the natural easy posture, You are very
graceful in Your completeness.
(11) If even for a moment, we have the fortune to look at You, calamity is not found though we hunt
for it. This is because of the spade in Your hand, which destroys the bondage of worldly life.
(12) You pull, by your crooked goad, such devotee who is very dear to you, and freeing him from
the disaster of wordly life, keep him safe with You.
(13) By giving the sweet 'modaka’ which is joy itself, to Your devotee, who is really desireless,
You give him real ecstasy of divine joy.
(14) You are easily established in the smallest object and, therefore, the adjective ‘Mouse-Rider’
is very properly fitting for you.
(15) If we observe carefully, You are neither man nor elephant, thus You are beyond the visible and
invisible. Knowing You to be beyond any modification, (Vikara) I worship you as a supreme bramhan only.
So did u understand who is lord ganesha?
Last edited by hinduism♥krishna; 01 September 2013 at 01:48 AM. Reason: deleted sentenses as per admins instruction
Hari On!
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