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Thread: How can this be?

  1. #1
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    How can this be?

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namast

    If one looks to the world, about 8 in 10 people identify with a religious group, so says the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life.

    Now if one thinks about this 8 out of 10 people that no doubt is a fine majority. Yet if we look around the world we see strife. How can this be ? How can one's religion not muster enough good-will that would bring some semblance of peace to the world ? Something is missing. Here's some of my opinions on this matter.
    • identify with a religious group does not suggest one practices the principles of that religion
    • practicing a religion inadequately is like not practicing it at all
    • the pride that one's religion is superior to another's magnifies differences
    • the motivation to 'recruit' more into a religious group suggesting bigger is better is a political mind set and not spiritually relevant
    • To recruit others, thinking you are saving them, is the fault of pride and ignorance
    The list above looks like reasonable assumptions, yet no matter what religion one practices, if one is completely attached to thinking they are the body and it is the final reality, then one is no less living in the herd (paśavya). And what is this ? Pravṛttimārga - active or worldly life , occupancy about the business and pleasures of the world.

    Now one needs to note that we must live in this world, function within it, and enjoy what it has to offer, but not be captivated by it. Why so?
    Because more often then not you will be disappointed. You wanted X to occur and Y shows up; You pointed out A, but you got B. Your expectations are not met. But I digress.

    If the very essence of the word religion is accomplished, then there is nothing to fear and each religion will bring one to the proper door step.

    Why then yajvan is sanātana dharma so attractive to you ? Because it suggests snāta... This word we know means bathed , washed , cleansed or purified from. Yet to it means one who has finished his religion. It wishes to bring to end religion for the practitioner. And what would that be ? Svādhisthāna means being stationed and delighted in one's own Self. Of what use is there for religion if one is grounded in one's own Self ? Religion would be as useful as a wicker basket for carrying water.

    iti śiva

    words and reference sites:
    • Pew Research study can be found here: http://www.pewforum.org/2012/12/18/g...andscape-exec/
      • 97% of all Hindus live in the world’s three Hindu-majority countries (India, Mauritius and Nepal)
    • paśu or paśnā - any tethered animal, singularly or collectively
      • 'a herd '; 5 kinds are enumerated , " men , kine , horses , goats and sheep "
      • paśutā - the state of an animal
      • paśutva - (with māheśvara-s and pāśupata-s) the being the individual soul
      • paśavya - belonging to a herd; a herd or drove of cattle
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #2

    Re: How can this be?

    Namaste

    the pride that one's religion is superior to another's magnifies differences

    Agree. However, viveka - discrimination, is a necessary factor while studying the truth - be it from one's own chosen angle/paramparA (tradition). Unfortunately, when like-minded people are discussing their school of thought, within a section reserved for them, many others read that and mistake their sharing of vichAr (thoughts) as feelings of pride and superiority.

    • the motivation to 'recruit' more into a religious group suggesting bigger is better is a political mind set and not spiritually relevant
    To recruit others, thinking you are saving them, is the fault of pride and ignorance

    If the very essence of the word religion is accomplished, then there is nothing to fear and each religion will bring one to the proper door step.
    agree, agree and agree.

    Of what use is there for religion if one is grounded in one's own Self ? Religion would be as useful as a wicker basket for carrying water.
    Let us ask Shukadev Goswami, the 4 (saNakAdi) KumAr, Adi Shesha, Devarshi NArada, Uddhav, Bheeshma, and numerous others established in the Self, whether continuing with their religion or newly following their chosen rasa is as useful as a wicker basket for carrying water.

    Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 1.7.10
    sūta uvāca
    ātmārāmāś ca munayo
    nirgranthā apy urukrame
    kurvanty ahaitukīḿ bhaktim
    ittham-bhūta-guṇo hariḥ
    All different varieties of ātmārāmas [those who take pleasure in ātmā, or spirit self], especially those established on the path of self-realization, though freed from all kinds of material bondage, desire to render unalloyed devotional service unto Shri Hari. This means that the Lord possesses transcendental qualities and therefore can attract everyone, including liberated souls.



    om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya ~
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  3. #3
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    Re: How can this be?

    Namaste.

    I think that a lot of statistics are just made up and/or the conditions and sampling size is just too limited.

    Like stated before, what does "identify with a religious group" actually mean?

    Just because it says I am Anglican on my birth certificate, that means I must be Anglican right?

    Well, I kinda believe in a 'God of My Own Understanding' so let's find a religion that fits...something tolerant of all my beliefs and something I can identify with, whether I go there every week or every year, I will still identify with it because if I ever die, I want to be buried/cremated there...

    So, I wouldn't take the survey as being any real indication of people's actual beliefs. Such surveys have a sensationalist nature.

    It is all based on the Pareto Principle (as nearly every survey is):
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle

    I could even 'say' that 20% of people sincerely believe in God and are active in their own religion and 80% of people are not.

    Why does Sanatana Dharma appeal to me? Freedom to be my Self.

    Aum Namah Shivaya

  4. #4

    Re: How can this be?

    Namaste,

    You make good points, but all of it seems to be going off of the assumption that religion is an intrinsically good thing. With the exceptions of the Dharmic religions of Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and Sikhism, as well as the various pagan/neo-pagan religions (which are on the rise) I would say that other religions are a major cause of much of the world's strife.

    Atheism/agnosticism/"no religion" are classifications that are dramatically on the rise worldwide. I can only speak from personal experience, and I know a good amount of religious people (mainly Christians) as well as non-religious people. The non-religious people that I know are noticeably more moral and compassionate people. They are not of the "militant atheist" variety in the likes of Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, etc who despise all forms of theism and think that all religious people are "deluded". On the other hand, they generally strive to do good and are good people who just don't believe in a deity. They are for the most part just average people without the self-righteousness and bigoted attitudes of Abrahamics.

    As the Abrahamic religions decline and atheism/agnosticism continue to rise, I think there will be less strife, violence, and oppression throughout the world. Please note that I am not saying that atheists are friends of Hinduism; but they are generally not foes, which Abrahamics, by definition are. Also, to coincide with the rise of atheism/agnosticism there is also a noticeable rising popularity of pagan/neo-pagan religions across the world, which is a splendid development as people are going back to the faiths of their forefathers before they were brutally wiped out by Abrahamics.

    Jai Sri Ram
    Sanatana Dharma ki Jai!
    Jai Hanuman

  5. #5
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    Re: How can this be?

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namast


    Quote Originally Posted by Ramakrishna View Post
    As the Abrahamic religions decline and atheism/agnosticism continue to rise, I think there will be less strife, violence, and oppression throughout the world. Please note that I am not saying that atheists are friends of Hinduism; but they are generally not foes, which Abrahamics, by definition are. Also, to coincide with the rise of atheism/agnosticism there is also a noticeable rising popularity of pagan/neo-pagan religions across the world, which is a splendid development as people are going back to the faiths of their forefathers before they were brutally wiped out by Abrahamics.
    No matter who is on the rise or fall , if one is possessed by the notion of 'me' the perpetual state of ignorance continues. The ego and pride continues to be fueled. Yet the issue is not so much with the ego, but of not knowing clearly who one really is. It boils down to conditioned worldliness. Once one captures the truth then ego, religion, all that is just play. But before then it is a serious matter and people tend to die and fight over it.

    iti śiva
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  6. #6
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    Re: How can this be?

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post


    [/FONT]If one looks to the world, about 8 in 10 people identify with a religious group, so says the Pew Research Centers Forum on Religion & Public Life.

    Now if one thinks about this 8 out of 10 people that no doubt is a fine majority. Yet if we look around the world we see strife. How can this be ? How can one's religion not muster enough good-will that would bring some semblance of peace to the world ? Something is missing. Here's some of my opinions on this matter.

    Dear Yajvan,

    The topic seems to be really interesting; here is our POV on this.

    Prophetic religions admit the existence of a most high God of Heaven, the creator of both mankind and the entire Universe. What man should do in order to attune with the cosmic system is to have faith in God and willingness to obey the instructions given by God through its messengers.

    The non-prophetic religions, on the other hand, have no prophets as such. Hinduism does not even know with whom it actually originated. The teachings of some unknown Risis (the seers of Reality) are the firm basis of it. Though Buddhism and Jainism have their originators, they were never considered prophets; they really were the enlightened ones. These non-prophetic religions direct man to realize the one all-underlying Reality where in man and the entire universe find their oneness.

    In short, the role of religion in human life is ensuring happiness even when his life is subject to the unpredictable whirling of nature or otherwise called suffering. This happiness is to be actualized by every individual, not by mankind in general nor by any particular society.

    What we precisely want to make clear is, religiousness is an individuals need, not a creed of any social group having a distinctive culture.

    But what makes one a religionist or a religious zealot?

    Love
    ॐ इदम् न मम
    be just l we happy

  7. #7
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    Re: How can this be?

    Hari Om

    Namaste to all

    Off point to start: Like the very friendly formatting you present Brahman.

    In dismissing semantics, word religion for "research" means those Abrahamic faiths, some forms of Buddhism, etc. So, to me, cannot take away these faith's texts as being important. To me, with no hatred meant, if one reads the three main Islamic texts, the Torah along with the non-sanitized Talmud, it is very clear what world we would have for extremely faithful follower. To Christianity, since is child of Judaism, have to factor the forerunner text. To the Christian text with many things such as threats of eternal damnation, being squished through a wine press, etc., and can see even with many wise words attributed to Jesus, why, EVEN, if not especially, the adherents followed faithfully the written tenants of their faith, what world we would have.

    Think where people of these other traditions find the binding to/with/of God, it is despite the tenants of their teachings.

    For me, there is only one path that shows what is the goal. This path, its observance, does not make me wish to shove anything down anyone's throat, and even though think it is true way, ultimately and with time, it does not make me feel superior, only humble. It is Hinduism. To me, the truths and practices taught here, can lead to what YajvanJi teaches, DUE to what is taught and contained within scripture, not in spite of. Meaning, this is path that teaches not to consider Jiva superior and of knowing who one really is. This knowing is only offered herein, via texts. Think, some of most beautiful followers of the other traditions, traversed their traditions, and obtained some of truths taught within Sanatana Dharma. To me, this path answers some issues that OP brings forth with poll, as well as the problem and solution.

    Think so much richness is found below:
    No matter who is on the rise or fall , if one is possessed by the notion of 'me' the perpetual state of ignorance continues. The ego and pride continues to be fueled. Yet the issue is not so much with the ego, but of not knowing clearly who one really is. It boils down to conditioned worldliness. Once one captures the truth then ego, religion, all that is just play. But before then it is a serious matter and people tend to die and fight over it.

    Om NamahShivaya

    FFTW

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