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Thread: Clarification on BG 2.47

  1. #21
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    Re: Clarification on BG 2.47

    Quote Originally Posted by rcscwc View Post
    ----


    IMHO, icha was never brought into this shloka even indirectly.
    --

    No sir. Whatever the decision, the outcome was not phalheen.

    In fact it is easy to grasp that karma has to be done. Food will not jump into your mouth unless you do the karma of putting it there.

    This reference is not in context please. It runs counter to 2.47.

    PS: -- Try and try again.


    --
    pranam

    it seems to me you want to argue for the sake of argument, if you want to prove 2.47 and thus Krishna wrong be my guest.

    who said anything about phalheen? you will always get result of any given action be it good or bad, success or failure, lord krishna is merely asking you to do your duty without attachment to its fruits, outcome will remain always an unknown, not in our hand there would be many factors involved. when one works in that frame of mind one will always be calm and would not be overly effected by its outcome.

    desire is never far from any action, you are defeating your own arguments here, what is phal, what is phalheen if not desired why would you act in the first place?
    one does not try without desires.

    Ghana karmana gait; it is not as if Karma is difficult to do but what you fail to grasp is the outcome, sure you can put the the food in your mouth but what you don't know if it will give you indigestion or diarrhoea or what ever.

    there is nothing out of context or counter in 3.25/26 in relation to 2.47 only thing differs is our perception of it. Krishna never contradicts, if you think he does then we might as well stop this conversation.



    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  2. #22
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    Re: Clarification on BG 2.47

    Quote Originally Posted by rcscwc View Post
    Namaste.
    This shloka too is very subtle. It becomes hard to explain it to those who are driven by objective, like Western societies.

    It is your duty to perform your task but you have no rights to duty thereof.

    Why would any one develop a life saving drugs he he is not entitled to some profit therefrom?

    A person is advised to first attain education and then become a householder. As a householder he utilises his knowledge for earning wealth ie artha. Why earning of wealth is removed then why would a man study hard?

    Thanks in advance.
    Namaste.

    I haven't studied the Bhagavad Gita in years, but I am familiar with the shloka:

    karmany evadhikaras te
    ma phalesu kadacana
    ma karma-phala-hetur bhur
    ma te sango 'stv akarmani

    Translation: You have a right to perform your prescribed duty, but you are not entitled to the fruits of action. Never consider yourself to be the cause of the results of your activities, and never be attached to not doing your duty.

    I shall reply to your questions with another passage from the Gita:

    Chapter 3 verse 27:

    prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
    guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
    ahańkāra-vimūḍhātmā
    kartāham iti manyate

    The spirit soul bewildered by the influence of false ego thinks himself the doer of activities that are in actuality carried out by the three modes of material nature.

    What Lord Krishna is saying, is to do your duty, but not be attached to performing that duty or the fruits thereof.

    The moment one thinks "I am the 'do-er' and thus I am entitled to whatever rewards I get for doing it" puts them in the mode of ignorance.

    It is not 'fatalism' to place everything in the hands of Sri Krishna, because ultimately, everything is anyway - we just need to accept this.

    That's not to say we must become lazy and shirk our duty, because dharma is what keeps society and religion stable.

    We all have to be 'well oiled cogs in the wheels of progress' for things to advance and not stagnate.

    What Lord Krishna is saying, is not to become a greedy money-grabber or seek fame and fortune, but to do what one has to do in regards to their birth, their means and their destiny while keeping their heart and mind firmly established in Sri Krishna.

    It is a shloka in praise of Karma Yoga. That's what it's all about.

    Aum Namah Shivaya

  3. #23
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    Re: Clarification on BG 2.47

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    pranam

    it seems to me you want to argue for the sake of argument, if you want to prove 2.47 and thus Krishna wrong be my guest.

    who said anything about phalheen? you will always get result of any given action be it good or bad, success or failure, lord krishna is merely asking you to do your duty without attachment to its fruits, outcome will remain always an unknown, not in our hand there would be many factors involved. when one works in that frame of mind one will always be calm and would not be overly effected by its outcome.

    desire is never far from any action, you are defeating your own arguments here, what is phal, what is phalheen if not desired why would you act in the first place?
    one does not try without desires.

    Ghana karmana gait; it is not as if Karma is difficult to do but what you fail to grasp is the outcome, sure you can put the the food in your mouth but what you don't know if it will give you indigestion or diarrhoea or what ever.

    there is nothing out of context or counter in 3.25/26 in relation to 2.47 only thing differs is our perception of it. Krishna never contradicts, if you think he does then we might as well stop this conversation.



    Jai Shree Krishna
    Don't behave like a loser. If you are convinced then please lead the way.

    I have clearly told the kind of arguments that you shall face if you try to write about Gita!!

    If you are not able to remove the inconsistencies, you might as well abandon the discussion.

    PS: You put food in your mouth believing that it is not poisoned or contaminate. If you have the least doubt you will leave it alone. You do know what the phal of a poisoned food, death.

    Anyway you eat to satiate your hunger, not because it is your duty to do so.

    Ganeshji, Krishna explained to Arjuna with lots of patience, never calling him like that. Getting exasperated is sure way of losing your reason. What if Krishna was impatient and exasperated? He would have taken up the fight and finished it quickly, but we would be deprived of the Great Message.

    Ganeshji, please try to post on some xian forum. This one is quite a mild one, but post and see what happens.
    http://christiansvsnonchristians.yuku.com/directory
    I post only when I have first anticipated the arguments and got answers for them.
    ***
    Necromancer, please study BG. It is a treasure trove and worth exploring.
    Last edited by rcscwc; 09 September 2013 at 08:13 AM.

  4. #24
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    Re: Clarification on BG 2.47

    Quote Originally Posted by rcscwc View Post
    Necromancer, please study BG. It is a treasure trove and worth exploring.
    Namaste.

    I have before and I shall again. You didn't comment on what I said though.

    It's just that being a Shaiva, there's a lot more stuff I got to study that I haven't yet, so revisiting Gita is way down on the list.

    I just thought I'd reply to bring the subject back on topic and to stop all the bickering.

    I see that didn't work.

    Aum Namah Shivaya

  5. #25
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    Re: Clarification on BG 2.47

    Pranam

    Quote Originally Posted by rcscwc View Post
    Don't behave like a loser. --
    oh let me get this straight i am a loser because!!!!

    I have clearly told the kind of arguments that you shall face if you try to write about Gita!!
    i am not bothered by any kind of arguments, i wonder if these arguments are made to mask your own doubts weather you understand properly what Lord Krishna is saying?

    You think karma is very simple to grasp in direct contrast to what krishna says 'gahana karmano gatih' The intricacies of action are very hard to understand.

    If you are not able to remove the inconsistencies, you might as well abandon the discussion.
    since i do not see any contradiction or inconsistencies in what Lord Krishna is saying i have nothing to remove, where else you have doubt in what Lord Krishna is saying worst still you think he contradict so i wonder what value is there for you to defend or discuss Bhagvat Gita?

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  6. #26
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    Re: Clarification on BG 2.47

    Pranam

    Quote Originally Posted by rcscwc View Post
    PS: You put food in your mouth believing that it is not poisoned or contaminate. If you have the least doubt you will leave it alone. You do know what the phal of a poisoned food, death.

    Anyway you eat to satiate your hunger, not because it is your duty to do so.
    Oh please, this was your example proving how easy the Karma was in response i said one would not know the result of what one might eat.

    Ganeshji, Krishna explained to Arjuna with lots of patience, never calling him like that. Getting exasperated is sure way of losing your reason. What if Krishna was impatient and exasperated? He would have taken up the fight and finished it quickly, but we would be deprived of the Great Message.
    i am sorry now you have lost me

    Ganeshji, please try to post on some xian forum. This one is quite a mild one, but post and see what happens.
    http://christiansvsnonchristians.yuku.com/directory
    I post only when I have first anticipated the arguments and got answers for them.
    ***
    Necromancer, please study BG. It is a treasure trove and worth exploring.
    I have no desire to engage with them, if the occasion required for me to defend Dharma i would do so, there is no need to go convince a hostile adversary.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  7. #27

    Re: Clarification on BG 2.47

    This thread is a perfect example candidate for BG 18.67

    BG 18.67
    idaḿ te nātapaskāya
    nābhaktāya kadācana
    na cāśuśrūṣave vācyaḿ
    na ca māḿ yo 'bhyasūyati

    This confidential knowledge may never be explained to those who are not austere, or devoted, or engaged in devotional service, nor to one who is envious of Me.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  8. #28
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    Re: Clarification on BG 2.47

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    Pranam

    oh let me get this straight i am a loser because!!!!

    i am not bothered by any kind of arguments, i wonder if these arguments are made to mask your own doubts weather you understand properly what Lord Krishna is saying?

    You think karma is very simple to grasp in direct contrast to what krishna says 'gahana karmano gatih' The intricacies of action are very hard to understand.

    since i do not see any contradiction or inconsistencies in what Lord Krishna is saying i have nothing to remove, where else you have doubt in what Lord Krishna is saying worst still you think he contradict so i wonder what value is there for you to defend or discuss Bhagvat Gita?

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Ganeshji, you are clear, I am clear, almost all members are clear. Is a xian or a western atheist clear? Can you make it clear to them? That is the test.

    You say I am masking my ignorance. I am not a scholar ar par with Shankara, not even at par with you, I admit. But this remark on a xian forum will be a mark of intolerance and impatience. Either my way or you are a fool. No, no, Ganeshji, that is not how it works elsewhere.

    Did I not say in the OP what my thrust is? How to paraphrase to make it fit for a xian forum? Are you afraid of facing them? Can you discuss it with them without being overly defensive?

    Ganeshgji, I will be direct. You have no desire to engage hostile xians/atheists, because you are afraid. Arjuna at least was not afraid of battle, he knew he was unbeatable in battle.

    Whenever a xian expresses that he has no desire to engage hostile adversaries, he is immediately branded a loser. I have many times engaged in heasted discussions on bible and biblegod.
    Last edited by rcscwc; 09 September 2013 at 09:57 PM.

  9. #29
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    Re: Clarification on BG 2.47

    Namaste.

    I thought I would just drop this here, to help explain Karma Yoga and Shri Krishna's message in a way that Christians can understand it - it helped me to understand it - from a Western perspective:

    On Work

    You work that you may keep pace with the earth and the soul of the earth.

    For to be idle is to become a stranger unto the seasons, and to step out of life's procession, that marches in majesty and proud submission towards the infinite.

    When you work you are a flute through whose heart the whispering of the hours turns to music.

    Which of you would be a reed, dumb and silent, when all else sings together in unison?

    Always you have been told that work is a curse and labour a misfortune.

    But I say to you that when you work you fulfil a part of earth's furthest dream, assigned to you when that dream was born,

    And in keeping yourself with labour you are in truth loving life,
    And to love life through labour is to be intimate with life's inmost secret.

    But if you in your pain call birth an affliction and the support of the flesh a curse written upon your brow, then I answer that naught but the sweat of your brow shall wash away that which is written.

    You have been told also that life is darkness, and in your weariness you echo what was said by the weary.

    And I say that life is indeed darkness save when there is urge,
    And all urge is blind save when there is knowledge,
    And all knowledge is vain save when there is work,
    And all work is empty save when there is love;
    And when you work with love you bind yourself to yourself, and to one another, and to God.

    And what is it to work with love?

    It is to weave the cloth with threads drawn from your heart,
    even as if your beloved were to wear that cloth.

    It is to build a house with affection,
    even as if your beloved were to dwell in that house.

    It is to sow seeds with tenderness and reap the harvest with joy,
    even as if your beloved were to eat the fruit.

    It is to charge all things you fashion with a breath of your own spirit,
    And to know that all the blessed dead are standing about you and watching.

    Often have I heard you say, as if speaking in sleep, "He who works in marble, and finds the shape of his own soul in the stone, is nobler than he who ploughs the soil.

    And he who seizes the rainbow to lay it on a cloth in the likeness of man, is more than he who makes the sandals for our feet."

    But I say, not in sleep but in the overwakefulness of noontide, that the wind speaks not more sweetly to the giant oaks than to the least of all the blades of grass;
    And he alone is great who turns the voice of the wind into a song made sweeter by his own loving.

    Work is love made visible.

    And if you cannot work with love but only with distaste, it is better that you should leave your work and sit at the gate of the temple and take alms of those who work with joy.

    For if you bake bread with indifference, you bake a bitter bread that feeds but half man's hunger.

    And if you grudge the crushing of the grapes, your grudge distils a poison in the wine.

    And if you sing though as angels, and love not the singing, you muffle man's ears to the voices of the day and the voices of the night.
    -Khalil Gibran

    *crying now because that is just so beautiful.

    Aum Namah Shivaya

  10. #30
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    Re: Clarification on BG 2.47

    nice one.

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