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Thread: Questions on Vaishnavism and sampradayas

  1. #11

    Re: Questions on Vaishnavism and sampradayas

    Wow! I seem to have upset a hornet's nest unknowingly. I'm going to open a new thread in the Vaishnava forum as I am interested in the differences in the practice and views of Gaudiya and Nimbarki Vaishnavas.

  2. #12

    Re: Questions on Vaishnavism and sampradayas

    Am I missing something? Who exactly is upset, and over what?
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  3. #13
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    Arrow Re: Questions on Vaishnavism and sampradayas

    Quote Originally Posted by smaranam
    He said "mAyAvAdi bhAshya sunile sarvanAsh" => Once you hear MAyAvAd, you will tend to be lured by its convenience and it will destroy your bhakti-latA (creeper of devotion), or the seed or any potential for it to sprout.
    Namaste, bandhu.

    I think this is from " chaitanya charitamrita " in which there is a special chapter to defeat advaita .

    You want to say that if we hear advaita knowledge, we will get deviated from bhakti. However , this is not the reality. There were many advaitians who attained self / krushn through bhakti yoga. The evidence is from maharashtrian vaishnawas , like sant dnyaneshwar, sant eknath, tukaram, namdev, etc, who attained and personally experienced bhagavan through their topmost bhakti and said that there is no other than self , everything is atma or bhagavn kruahn. The interesting thing about them is that they were firmed in conviction of 'ahambramhasi ' and they experienced it , yet their devotion to lord krishna didn't get destroyed ! They said, " only through krushn bhakti or by chanting names of hari, one can easily attain supreme goal in this kaliyug " .
    We can know their topmost love towards lord krishna by their writings or by their charitra.

    This is one of the reason why no one is going to accept teachings of ' chaitanya charitamruta , at least we maharashtrian vaishnwas can't !


    Thank you! ( राम कृष्ण हरी )
    Last edited by hinduism♥krishna; 20 September 2013 at 08:03 AM.

  4. #14

    Re: Questions on Vaishnavism and sampradayas

    Quote Originally Posted by hinduism♥krishna View Post
    Namaste, bandhu.

    I think this is from " chaitanya charitamrita " in which there is a special chapter to defeat advaita .

    You want to say that if we hear advaita knowledge, we will get deviated from bhakti. However , this is not the reality. There were many advaitians who attained self / krushn through bhakti yoga. The evidence is from maharashtrian vaishnawas , like sant dnyaneshwar, sant eknath, tukaram, namdev, etc, who attained and personally experienced bhagavan through their topmost bhakti and said that there is no other than self , everything is atma or bhagavn kruahn. The interesting thing about them is that they were firmed in conviction of 'ahambramhasi ' and they experienced it , yet their devotion to lord krishna didn't get destroyed ! They said, " only through krushn bhakti or by chanting names of hari, one can easily attain supreme goal in this kaliyug " .
    We can know their topmost love towards lord krishna by their writings or by their charitra.

    This is one of the reason why no one is going to accept teachings of ' chaitanya charitamruta , at least we maharashtrian vaishnwas can't !


    Thank you! ( राम कृष्ण हरी )
    Since when are the opinions of Maharashtrian followers of HLK's non-Vedantic sect the standard for determining what is and is not authentic Vaishnavism?
    Philosoraptor

    "Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because they have to say something." - Plato

  5. #15

    Re: Questions on Vaishnavism and sampradayas

    Quote Originally Posted by hinduism♥krishna View Post
    You want to say that if we hear advaita knowledge, we will get deviated from bhakti. However , this is not the reality. There were many advaitians who attained self / krushn through bhakti yoga. The evidence is from maharashtrian vaishnawas , like sant dnyaneshwar, sant eknath, tukaram, namdev, etc, who attained and personally experienced bhagavan through their topmost bhakti and said that there is no other than self , everything is atma or bhagavn kruahn. The interesting thing about them is that they were firmed in conviction of 'ahambramhasi ' and they experienced it , yet their devotion to lord krishna didn't get destroyed ! They said, " only through krushn bhakti or by chanting names of hari, one can easily attain supreme goal in this kaliyug " .
    We can know their topmost love towards lord krishna by their writings or by their charitra.
    Namaste

    Just a quick note.

    Yes, Sant DnyAneshwar, NAmdev, EknAth, TukArAm Maharaj's messages are clear and sublime.
    While Dnyaneshwar (11th century) tilts more on yoga and jnana via bhakti, and says "bhAve viNa bhakti, bhakti viNa mukti, kaisi pahe...
    (You can't have bhakti without bhav and mukti without bhakti),

    by the time Tukaram arrived (17th century), it was bhakti nAma sankirtan full swing. Abhangas ruled the varkari world, although the message of jnana was always emphasized.

    Vitthal (KRshNa) takes the devotee all the way to jnana, and leaves the option of devotion intact. He wants you to have the realization.

    Although, Dnyaneshwar talks of bhakta's heart partitioned into two so Vitthal lives in one, AFTER Bramhan realization ( I am this entire Universe and beyond).
    While Tukaram says "anu renua thokada tuka akasha evahdha" (smaller than smallest atom/quark, TukA is as vast as the sky" => aham bramhasmi
    and on the other hand he says "nahi sute bhajan" meaning, AFTER Bramhan realization also, I fail to give up bhajan of that Shri Hari.

    These things are not completely contradictory to Lord Chaitanya really, but the varkari saints are more embracing, not rejecting or exclusive.
    Now the followers of Chaitanya have branched out into pockets like Rupanugas (followers of Rup Manjari) etc. and things get more and more rigid. His note of caution "mayavadi bhashya..." was for the local people in eastern India considering what was happening there.

    Anyways, I appreciate your efforts to get the beautiful message of the Varkari saints across They do bring out the vedas, but also note that they started off from nath sampraday , nivritti was dnyandev's guru.
    (Although nava-naths were nava-yogendras coming back on order of Dattatreya).

    It is just that shaba - words, especially vaikhari vANI (grosset of four sound forms), creates chaos, as we see on HDF. Those who get/appreciate the message --- It is for them only, not others.

    See you. No energy/time left for vaikhari vANI or sampradays. I never belonged to any, just to the One to Whom time and energy is dedicated (taken up by) --- that Tribhanga lalita GhanashyAm, and that bAla mukundam (baby mukundA) and as a result, the universe. That is His nice trick.

    vasudeva sutam devam kaumsa chANura mardanam devaki paramAnandam kRshNam vande jagatgurum
    _/\_

    RAma KRshNa Hari
    baala mukunda murAri
    pAnDuranga pAnduranga pAnDuranga Hari ~
    Last edited by smaranam; 20 September 2013 at 11:55 AM.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  6. #16
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    Arrow Re: Questions on Vaishnavism and sampradayas

    Namaste, smaranam.

    It's a nice post. You explained the things correctly.

    Quote Originally Posted by smaranam
    While Dnyaneshwar (11th century) tilts more on yoga and jnana via bhakti, and says "bhAve viNa bhakti, bhakti viNa mukti, kaisi pahe...
    (You can't have bhakti without bhav and mukti without bhakti),
    Yes, it is from ' haripath '.
    Quote Originally Posted by smaranam
    While Tukaram says "anu renua thokada tuka akasha evahdha" (smaller than smallest atom/quark, TukA is as vast as the sky" => aham bramhasmi
    Wouldn't this mean self is beyond the concepts of finite and infinite, as we cant explain the concept which is beyond finite and infinite. What tukaram said is the only way to describe it.
    Quote Originally Posted by smaranam
    on the other hand he says "nahi sute bhajan" meaning, AFTER Bramhan realization also, I fail to give up bhajan of that Shri Hari.
    Doesn't this mean saguna and nirguna bramh are one. Besides, sant eknath says " the absolute happiness we get from nirguna and saguna bramh is one, which is atmic bliss sat chit ananda . The self realised person doesn't give up bhakti , as it would be an inspiration for other devotees. Shukadev did the same

    धन्यवाद , श्री हरी गोविंद ।।

    ―――――――
    hinduism♥krishna
    Last edited by hinduism♥krishna; 20 September 2013 at 12:59 PM.

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