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Thread: Adi shankara Posts - Jalpa Thread 2

  1. #51
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    Re: Ganapathi pooja in Vaishnavism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    Pranam

    Did say that, did I even mention Kena UP!

    "For an acharya who established adwaita it is hard to believe he would go against sruti vakya, "ekam sat vipra"he also does not deny Vayu in his commentary on shanti mantra From Taittiriya Upanishad:"

    Jai Shree Krishna
    I have aldready quoted from Shankaracharya's commentaries on Kena Upanishad,Bhagavad Gita and Brahma Sutras to show that Shankaracharya regarded the devas as different from and inferior to Brahman. You refused to touch that evidence. bhagavatafan has cited a work by an advaitin who lived a few centuries after Shankaracharya confirming that Shankaracharya never wore bhasma. bhagavatafan has also cited Shankaracharya's Bhashyas on Brahma Sutras and Brihadaranyaka Upanishad to prove that Shankaracharya regarded Shiva and Surya as jivas. Both the correct interpretation of the Shanti mantra as well as the actual meaning of Shankaracharya's commentary on it have been explained to you before.

    You have not said one word to counter any of this mountain of evidence but keep repeating yourself. Will you try to offer a rebuttal atleast now?

    Also according to uou the Shanti Mantra depicts Vayu as the supreme Brahman. But the Kena upanishad clearly depicts Vayu as inferior to and different from Brahman. How is this consistent with your interpretation of Taittriya Upanishad?
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


    A Shaivite library
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  2. Re: Adi shankara Posts - Jalpa Thread 2

    Dear Omkara,

    Padmapada whose work panchapadika I quoted did not live a couple of centuries later as you stated. He was Shankaracharya's direct disciple and hence a contemporary. This makes our argument even stronger.

  3. #53
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    Re: Ganapathi pooja in Vaishnavism

    Pranam

    Quote Originally Posted by Omkara View Post
    ---. bhagavatafan has cited a work by an advaitin who lived a few centuries after Shankaracharya confirming that Shankaracharya never wore bhasma.
    Oh really what has been offered is an interpretation of his verse by a Vaishnava, with that highlight entendre says it all, against that we have traditional that has been carried since the inception by four separate maths take you pick, I know what I am choosing.

    You have not said one word to counter any of this mountain of evidence but keep repeating yourself. Will you try to offer a rebuttal atleast now?

    Also according to uou the Shanti Mantra depicts Vayu as the supreme Brahman. But the Kena upanishad clearly depicts Vayu as inferior to and different from Brahman. How is this consistent with your interpretation of Taittriya Upanishad?
    No sooner you say Vayu no other form or deity is invoked, feel the cool breeze, the air that you breath. Be my guest if the shanti mantra is invoking anyone else but Vayu.
    I am not given to speculation nor in a habit to interpret in a way that look so absurd as to wonder how is that one who cognise the brahm got it so wrong, that we need to alien all those different deities to our predilection.

    All doctrines have engaged in interpretation - as necessary - to produce that homogenous system. Problem is then if the literal reading of the verse aligns with the doctrine, then go with it (also criticize opponents for not being literal). If the literal reading does not quite align, then it is free for all even if at being absurd to the point that Rudram of yajurveda is not Rudra or Vishnu is only a minor deity or Durga is different or Ganesh is not in Vedas or he is different from the Shaiva Ganesh

    Can we have Yagya with out Agni, no Agni no Vedas, no Vayu no Prana.

    One God with many aspects ~ all equally divine ~ The One true God is known by many Names; and these Names evoke Forms.
    And yet, the One true God encompasses and surpasses All Names, and All Forms.

    That One God is effectively unimaginable, unnameable, and unable to be given worldly tribute.(Sarbhanga)

    Manduka UP
    7. He who is neither inward-wise, nor outward-wise, nor both inward- and outward-wise, nor wisdom
    self-gathered, nor possessed of wisdom, nor unpossessed of wisdom, He Who is unseen and
    incommunicable, unseizable, featureless, unthinkable, and unnameable, Whose essentiality is
    awareness of the Self in its single existence, in Whom all phenomena dissolve, Who is Calm,
    Who is Good, Who is the One than Whom there is no other, Him they deem the fourth ;
    He is the Self, He is the object of Knowledge.


    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  4. #54
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    Re: Adi shankara Posts - Jalpa Thread 2

    Will you answer as to why Vayu's ego is crushed by Brahman in Kena Upanishad if he is the supreme being?

    And also all the other proof about Adi Shankara instead of beating around the bush?
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


    A Shaivite library
    http://www.scribd.com/HinduismLibrary

  5. #55
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    Re: Adi shankara Posts - Jalpa Thread 2

    Pranam


    Quote Originally Posted by Omkara View Post
    Will you answer as to why Vayu's ego is crushed by Brahman in Kena Upanishad if he is the supreme being?

    And also all the other proof about Adi Shankara instead of beating around the bush?
    I am sorry you do not get to talk to me like that, I am afraid there is no other clarification coming from me to you, I suggest if you are really honest then try any four math, they may be able to help but looking at your portraying or understanding of Sankracharya Bhasya on Vinayakas I very much doubt you will accept their clarifications

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  6. #56
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    Re: Ganapathi pooja in Vaishnavism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post


    "Om Sham No Mitra Sham Varunah Sham No Bhavatvaryamaa,
    Sham Na Indro Brihaspatih Sham No Vishnururukramah,
    Namo Brahmane Namaste Vaayo Tvameva Pratyaksham,
    Brahmaasi Tvaameva Pratyaksham Brahma Vadishyaami,
    Rtam Vadishyaami Satyam Vadishyaami,
    Tanmaamavatu Tadvaktaaramavatu Avatu Maam Avatu Vaktaaram,
    Om Shantih Shantih Shantih"

    Jai Shree Krishna
    How much proof one needs when Samhita louds Vayu thus

    Rig Veda Mandala 10 Hymn 186

    वात आ वातु भेषजं शम्भु मयोभु नो हर्दे |
    पर णायूंषि तारिषत ||
    उत वात पितासि न उत भरातोत नः सखा |
    स नोजीवातवे कर्धि ||
    यददो वात ते गर्हे.अम्र्तस्य निधिर्हितः |
    ततो नो देहिजीवसे ||
    vāta ā vātu bheṣajaṃ śambhu mayobhu no hṛde |
    pra ṇaāyūṃṣi tāriṣat ||
    uta vāta pitāsi na uta bhrātota naḥ sakhā |
    sa nojīvātave kṛdhi ||
    yadado vāta te ghṛhe.amṛtasya nidhirhitaḥ |
    tato no dehijīvase ||

    1. FILLING our hearts with health and joy, may Vāta breathe his balm on us
    May he prolong our days of life.
    2 Thou art our Father, Vāta, yea, thou art a Brother and a friend,
    So give us strength that we may live.
    3 The store of Amṛta laid away yonder, O Vāta, in thine home,—
    Give us thereof that we may live.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  7. #57

    Re: Ganapathi pooja in Vaishnavism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    How much proof one needs when Samhita louds Vayu thus

    Rig Veda Mandala 10 Hymn 186

    वात आ वातु भेषजं शम्भु मयोभु नो हर्दे |
    पर णायूंषि तारिषत ||
    उत वात पितासि न उत भरातोत नः सखा |
    स नोजीवातवे कर्धि ||
    यददो वात ते गर्हे.अम्र्तस्य निधिर्हितः |
    ततो नो देहिजीवसे ||
    vāta ā vātu bheṣajaṃ śambhu mayobhu no hṛde |
    pra ṇaāyūṃṣi tāriṣat ||
    uta vāta pitāsi na uta bhrātota naḥ sakhā |
    sa nojīvātave kṛdhi ||
    yadado vāta te ghṛhe.amṛtasya nidhirhitaḥ |
    tato no dehijīvase ||

    1. FILLING our hearts with health and joy, may Vāta breathe his balm on us
    May he prolong our days of life.
    2 Thou art our Father, Vāta, yea, thou art a Brother and a friend,
    So give us strength that we may live.
    3 The store of Amṛta laid away yonder, O Vāta, in thine home,—
    Give us thereof that we may live.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Highest Pranam-s, Ganeshprasad:

    It is very important that you mention this verse. From what we know about the Upanishads, the Upanishadic BrahmAn is able to be many things at once. "He" is able to be Deva, life force, atma, brother, sister, father, and mother...amongst numerous other things - at the same time. This is the core concept of the Upanishadic BrahmAn.

    What the hymn above reveals to us from the most high and most noble Rig Veda, on the other hand, is that Shri Vayu/Vāta is many things at the same time, just like how the Upanishadic BrahmAn is as well. Shri Vayu is a father, a brother, and a friend. He is the eternal amrita in his supreme abode. To be a part of him, we, as Hindus, ask Shri Vayu to give us some of that eternal amrita in order to be one with him, to be part of Shri Vayu: who is the father, brother, and friend amongst numerous other things.

    In other words, this hymn, as per Rig-Vedic theology, is lauding Shri Vayu as supreme in his own right, since many Shri Gods are lauded in the most high and most noble Rig Veda as supreme since neither is younger nor older than the other, and the mentioning of Shri Agni as always young signifies Shri Agni's youth in material form: the fire that is rekindled in front of us and fed with oblations through the ladling of Ghee. But, in the spiritual realms, Shri Agni, like Shri Vayu is not younger nor older than the other Shri 33 Supremes, as per Rig Vedic theology.

    This fact is attested in Mandala 1 when the All-Gods are recited as Ekam Sat. They, pluralistically, are given the epithet of being one-truth. In simpler terms, this one-truth is all of them combined, yet we give each of them separate summonings or callings in order to praise them individually through the conduction of the noble Yagyas. They are this one-truth. They are everything. They are one. They are also, as per the most high and most noble Rig Veda, summoned through prayer through Brahmanas Pati (who is Shri Ganesha). It is Shri Ganesha that codifies these prayers for he is the Lord of Prayer. Each Rig-Vedic hymn addresses a Deva as supreme in his/her own right. Meaning, One God At a Time.

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    Re: Adi shankara Posts - Jalpa Thread 2

    Quote Originally Posted by bhagavatafan View Post
    Dear Omkara,

    Padmapada whose work panchapadika I quoted did not live a couple of centuries later as you stated. He was Shankaracharya's direct disciple and hence a contemporary. This makes our argument even stronger.
    Oops. Yes, that makes the case stronger.
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


    A Shaivite library
    http://www.scribd.com/HinduismLibrary

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    Re: Adi shankara Posts - Jalpa Thread 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    I am sorry you do not get to talk to me like that, I am afraid there is no other clarification coming from me to you, I suggest if you are really honest then try any four math, they may be able to help but looking at your portraying or understanding of Sankracharya Bhasya on Vinayakas I very much doubt you will accept their clarifications
    So basically you have no idea how to inretpret Kena Upanishad which contradicts your views. Why do you have to express an opinion when you have no idea how to reconcile it with Shruti?
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


    A Shaivite library
    http://www.scribd.com/HinduismLibrary

  10. #60
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    Re: Ganapathi pooja in Vaishnavism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    Oh really what has been offered is an interpretation of his verse by a Vaishnava, with that highlight entendre says it all, against that we have traditional that has been carried since the inception by four separate maths take you pick, I know what I am choosing.
    You were offered translations of Gita Bhashya by Gambhirananda (an advaitin) and Brahma Sutra Bhashya by George Thibaut (a non Hindu). You did not address those at all. Will you accuse them of bias as well?
    For that matter, all other translations of these bhashyas translate the same way. Will you accuse all of them of bias too?
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


    A Shaivite library
    http://www.scribd.com/HinduismLibrary

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