Untouchables

[kallol]

I was going through another thread and was bit confused with the use of Shudra & Untouchables.

Are both same ? Or where is the untouchables in the varna scheme ? What was the origin of the untouchables ? Are they considered part of hinduism ?

I am waiting to be surprised and learn some new facts.

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam

Untouchable has nothing to do with Varnasram, by the dint of being impure for various reasons one becomes untouchable. For example if I were to perform my puja my own family members would become untouchable if they have not had their bath.

Jai Shree Krishna

[hinduism♥krishna]

Namaste,

Yes, it's a part of sanatana dharma. Untouchability is one of the rules which should be followed by bramhan castes. Living of bramhan varna should be as pure as water ! Bramhan should not touch any lower beings such as shudra and non-varna people. Besides , petting animals like dog is also forbidden for bramhan castes. There are many such strict rules and real bramhan never disobeys these !

Dhanyavad !!!

[ShivaFan]

Namaste

The greatest subjugators of fellow Hindus are not invaders but Hindus themselves who practice the vile un-Hindu leprosy of the soul called "untouchability" which weakens the entire fabric of true Vedic culture and verily invites such invasions through weakness.

Sudras are not "lower beings", and there is no such thing as humans chatteled by birth to "untouchability" in Hinduism. By the way, it is illegal in India, and anyone who commits such terrorism on others should be arrested for human and spiritual rights violations.

Becoming impure is an action not a birth. A soul itself becomes impure by committing offense to the devotees of the Lord. This is the greatest offense.

One of my heroes is Veer Savarkar, one of the earliest of India's freedom fighters. Here are some of his words regarding this matter (1927):

]

"In regard our 70 million co-religionists as ‘untouchables’ and worse than animals is an insult not only to humanity but also to the sanctity of our soul. It is my firm conviction that this is why untouchability should be principally eradicated.

...Untouchability should be eradicated not only because it is incumbent on us but because it is impossible to justify this inhuman custom when we consider any aspect of dharma. Hence this custom should be eradicated as a command of dharma.

... This question of benefit is an aapaddharma (duty to be done in certain exceptional circumstances) and eradication of untouchability is the foremost and absolute dharma." (1927, Samagra Savarkar vangmaya, vol.3, p.483)

[Anirudh]

Namaste,

What is Manu Smrithi? This text is often linked with this menace. Is it an authentic text?

[hinduism♥krishna]

Namaste,

What is Manu Smrithi? This text is often linked with this menace. Is it an authentic text?

Namaste, Aniruddha. shubh NavaRatri.

Yes, it's an authentic scripture. There are many rules which is beyond our mind's understanding. They are very difficult. But some people without understanding them properly, say they are against human morals, so they say it's an inauthentic. But this doesn't change the fact !

Eg. There is a rule that shudra shouldn't touch veda or teach it. The teaching of veda is a right of bramhanas only ! . The task of preservation of veda is for bramhanas, not for shudras. The shudra's mind is impure and generally overwhelmed by tamsik gunas because of previous live's karma and there is a danger of misinterpretation and corruption of veda if they would start to teach veda.

There are some people too who say bramhan and shudra are one. No one is higher than other ! then what is the meaning and intention of chaturvarna ?

The sanatana dharma can't be comprehended fully even by hindus.

Dhanyavad - Hari Krushn.

[ShivaFan]

Namaste

This refedence to the "Laws of Manu" is probably the one popularized by the British, this version has been exposed as of modern origin with only a few actual dialectics from Manu. The actual dialectic of Manu that was actually about resolving conflict isn't even for the Kali Yuga, and so has no standing next to Vedas, or scriptures of Vaishnavas such as the Gita or Saivas such as Agamas, etc. The later corrupted modern "law book" was not even known by the huge majority of Indians who lived in that juridiction and totally unknown to the the rest of the entire India.

The actual Manu Smriti (which is not this modern man-corrupted version) was for the Sat Yuga. As far as the version touted today, you do not need to waste your time with this modern "law book" when you have Bhagavad Gita, Agamas, Upanishads, etc..

A little off subject, but there is a school that says there will be a future law book coming. We do not need to focus or even believe in this either to be a Hindu, but just to mention the future "Dharmasastra" is predicted to be written by Yajnavalkya based on Manu in the Kali Yug right towards the final days. It is to contain direct revelation of Manu. This is the same Yajnavalkya Who later at the end of the Kali Yuga will be the Spiritual Master or Acharyan advisor to Kalki. Yajnavalkya revealed the Black and the White Yajur Veda. The White Yajur was given with additional slokas by Surya the Sun God to Yajnavalkya in the form of a Horse manifestation.

Om Namah Sivaya

[Anirudh]

Namaste hinduism♥krishna,

There is a rule that shudra shouldn't touch veda or teach it.

I read contradicting views on this subject. We find abundant articles saying Vedas and Bhagavath Gita (with Vedic quotes) does not preach untouchability. After reading mixed version get a feeling that Manu Smriti was corrupted during the Mogul and British period.

[Anirudh]

Namaste Shiva Fan,

I read its English translation, could not believe its content. Then compared it with Hindi Translations (G P Dvivedi). I must say the content of Manu Smriti is detestable to say the least.

It is better to stay away from these kind of texts, that's what I feel.

Also few portion of it seem to have Islamic influence making its credibility and authenticity questionable.

[jignyAsu]

Pranam,

Untouchability, unlike Shudra, is not a part of the varna system but is an obvious ancillary that has always been followed to some harmless degree. By effect of kali, arrogant people have forgotten the restrictions/rules imposed on their varna and have baselessly indulged on oppressing the lower castes. I am thankful to any person who worked for their genuine upliftment, even if an atheist.

The Brahmin preists, for e.g., are to follow a minimum rigorous standards of physical and mental purity by birth and for them, those who do not uphold similar standards are untouchables. When they are involved in service to deity and rituals they are not supposed to touch or interact with people who are indiscriminate in eating/drinking/living etc. One may say that not all people of a specific caste or mlecchas necessarily indulge in indiscriminate eating etc. but then since they interact with their family, friends etc. impurity is unavoidable.

But this untouchability has no basis if people do not follow the restrictions and the varnashrama dharma. A brahmin of today, not involved in rituals/temples etc and who eats outside in restaurant etc is equally untouchable to the priest/swamis/bhaktas etc as is any other. Since in the past, people were mostly adhering to the duties of their varna, untouchability may have had semblences with some castes. Its my opinion that Brahmins, compared to other castes, had least to contribute to the plight of untouchables we see today as they never used to interact with them in the first place.

Question arises that if a person of a lower caste or even mleccha is pure in thoughts, food, words and deed are they still untouchables? My tradition (SriVaishnavam) that holds varna by birth (not a topic of this thread), lays that to distinguish a Bhakta by his/her birth only is considered to be an unpardonable offense. Examples of not only touching but consuming prasad from great ones belonging to all varnas exist, more than even thousands of years back.