Namaste , hari ram.
Here is my simple question ? # To all my dear dvaitian vaishnawas . .
Why shri krushn never used vaikuntha in bhagavad gita ? Besides , In anu gita , uddhava gita also , he never used any vaikuntha word as final mosksh. If vaikuntha was really a final mosksh , then shri Krishna would have said like that ?
In bhagavad gita , krishna uses many words like , matbhavam , becomes bramhan , nondifferent from me , enter into the supreme . These all are indicating only advaitik philosophy . In anu gita too , krishna teaches advaita knowledge to his disciple arjuna.
Now the question # Is vaikuntha a state of bramh ?
edited : This is taken from my post #52 :
It is said that He who performs actions according to the systems postulated in Vedas by vishnu , will reach him either in a form or image or in an abstract power as is his liking.
But there is a mention about direct personal experiencing of God as a form, a living being.
This opinion is of the Pancharatra Agama. Those who embrace that opinion think that Vaikuntha is the highest place.
Now please note that in Vedanta the Lord has said that Vaikuntha was created by him outside the seven covers or planes of Maya but within the field of Maya.
There it is mentioned that Maya is a sport of the God and by that sport he has created Vaikuntha and therefore Vaikuntha is not perishable.Where Purshottma whose colour is like that of a cloud resides in a body which is created by his own will through his own Maya, there Guna Time Karma and Maya, being all only illusions cannot remain.
the opinion of Agama is that Vaikuntha is eternal and non-destructible and there is no birth and death and those who reach that level of consciousness reside there in their eternal freedom.
Vedanta however opines that at the time of total dissolution of the Universe, even Vaikuntha and Kailasa are annihilated because they are also forms .
At that time, only that which is beyond the Gunas remains as it is and it is the absolute Brahman which is eternal and non-perishable.
The state where, Time, Karma, Guan, Dharma, Maya are all not existing is really the absolute Brahman. In Vaikuntha the Sayujjyata liberation which can be attained is with Gunas but the absolute Brahman is the state where Maya is dissolved and that is complete Sayujjyata.
In this connection, the Brahma Sutra says those who considers atma and bramhan different have all the glory of God to enjoy but they do not become the bramhan.
If you are not one with God, you maintain a distance from God even at that height of achievement.
Then, what will be your future?! How long will you be in Vaikuntha-Loka, Kailasa, Brahma-Loka or the Heaven where God abides? How long will you stay there? To be in that condition will be to enjoy the contemplation of the Infinite but not to become the Infinite. You have the happiness of contemplating the Infinite but you cannot become the Infinite and do what the Infinite can do. This is a peculiar aphorism in the Brahma Sutra.But dvaitian vaishnawas constantly claims that you can not become bramhan.
If you cannot become infinite bramhan , you will be finite again; if you are finite, then you have to return, having not attained moksha.
Edited : This is from my #18 post
I think krishna has already told his real abode in bhagavad gita (8.21) .
From the Unmanifest all manifestations emerge at the coming of Brahma’s Day; at the falling of Night they dissolve in that Self-same thing called the Unmanifest. (BG 8.18)
And this multitude of beings comes into being again and again, and dissolves helplessly, O Partha, at the coming of the Night, it is born again at the advent of the Day.(8.19)
But higher than this Unmanifest, there is another being,Unmanifest and eternal, which, when all beings perish, does not perish. (BG 8.20)
" avyaktokshar......tat dhama paramam mam "
it is called the (akshara)eternal (avyakta)Unmanifest; they speak of it as the highest goal. After reaching it, they do not return; that is My Supreme abode.
conclusions :
1) krishna never mentioned vaikuntha word.
2) From 8.18 and 8.19 ,it is cleared that there are two unmanifests .One is when jiva merges during bramha's night ,which is called as 'temporary avyakta' and the other is 'akshar avyakta'which is beyond avyakta .
3) That supreme place is known as "akshar" ( imperishable and eternal ) and "avyakta" ( avyaya-formless-unmanifested) .
4) It is more than impossible to call vaikuntha as " avyakta place " .or " place which is beyond form and formless ." Scriptures simply call that place as 'aroopa' and formless to negate form .
Why it is called as "akshar" ?
If we call it Unmanifest, we do not praise it properly; because it cannot be comprehended by the mind of the intellect. Even if it assumes form, it does not lose its formless nature. And with the disappearance of its form, its eternity is not affected It is, therefore, called the Imperishable, known as eternally present.
Vaikuntha is supreme only in terms of eternal lokas. As vaikuntha can not be a " avyakta place " , it is not the highest place of vishnu . But it is generally considered as supreme by vishnu devotees who are entangled in forms .
In this way krishna opens the secret of his nature ,which is known as atmaroopa.
HARI OM HARI HARI HARI
Dhanyavad , RAM KRISHNA HARI
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