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Thread: Devotion to Vishnu and Shiva.

  1. #1

    Devotion to Vishnu and Shiva.

    Namaste

    Both Sri Vishnu (and his forms) and Mahadev are dear to me although I do find myself leaning more towards Vishnu/Krishna. On our shrine I have a space for a shivling which I pour water and apply sandalwood everyday and perform puja to every Monday, I have pictures of Narayan & Lakshmi and one of Krishna also. Every day I offer a lamp, incense and flower/rice.

    Now the thing I was wondering, sometimes I'm unsure as to whether or not I should do my daily offerings to all three deities as one or individually? Either way I've tried it I say a prayer to each one as an individual.
    I've thought about just doing it to one or my 'favourite' for the daily stuff but I can't help but feel like including the other in whatever I do offer.

    This probably all sounds trivial but I haven't really found another thread where it concerns offerings/prayers to both Shiva and Vishnu.

    I can't really imagine one without the other.
    Shivasya hridayam vishnur: Vishnoscha hridayam shivah

  2. #2

    Re: Devotion to Vishnu and Shiva.

    Quote Originally Posted by peasandbones View Post
    Namaste

    Both Sri Vishnu (and his forms) and Mahadev are dear to me although I do find myself leaning more towards Vishnu/Krishna. On our shrine I have a space for a shivling which I pour water and apply sandalwood everyday and perform puja to every Monday, I have pictures of Narayan & Lakshmi and one of Krishna also. Every day I offer a lamp, incense and flower/rice.

    Now the thing I was wondering, sometimes I'm unsure as to whether or not I should do my daily offerings to all three deities as one or individually? Either way I've tried it I say a prayer to each one as an individual.
    I've thought about just doing it to one or my 'favourite' for the daily stuff but I can't help but feel like including the other in whatever I do offer.

    This probably all sounds trivial but I haven't really found another thread where it concerns offerings/prayers to both Shiva and Vishnu.

    I can't really imagine one without the other.
    My personal take on this is:

    One should do what feels right. After all this is a love relationship. The best way to develop ones inner and outer senses, is paying attention to them. People have all kind of advices, but you are not them. Your relationship with the Gods is very personal and nobodies business. It should be based on equality and mutual respect. It should not be based on fear of angering Gods, then the relationship becomes submissive. One should always feel free to worship the Gods one loves. Jealous Gods one should not even worship. It is quite natural that puja changes over time. Gods represent certain auspicious qualities and our needs vary. Hindus seek help from the Gods here, and not in the hereafter.

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    Re: Devotion to Vishnu and Shiva.

    Quote Originally Posted by peasandbones View Post
    Namaste

    Both Sri Vishnu (and his forms) and Mahadev are dear to me although I do find myself leaning more towards Vishnu/Krishna. On our shrine I have a space for a shivling which I pour water and apply sandalwood everyday and perform puja to every Monday, I have pictures of Narayan & Lakshmi and one of Krishna also. Every day I offer a lamp, incense and flower/rice.

    Now the thing I was wondering, sometimes I'm unsure as to whether or not I should do my daily offerings to all three deities as one or individually? Either way I've tried it I say a prayer to each one as an individual.
    I've thought about just doing it to one or my 'favourite' for the daily stuff but I can't help but feel like including the other in whatever I do offer.

    This probably all sounds trivial but I haven't really found another thread where it concerns offerings/prayers to both Shiva and Vishnu.

    I can't really imagine one without the other.
    Namaste,

    There is nothing to worry. It is said that devotion to any one form of God is enough. Hence when you chant mantra i.e. do japa for an hour or so, do it only for one deity. e.g. If you are going japa for Rama, then no need to do it for Krishna, though both are avatars of Vishnu. This is because the mantra continues in sub-conscious mind even after you stop chanting and are engaged in another work. This is true only if you are living 100 % spiritual life and moksha is the one and only goal of your life.

    However, when you are worshipping any deity, which comes under karma kand, then it is perfectly fine to worship more than one God. the oldest of the tradition is SmArta dharma. In smArta Dharma, we daily worship 5 deities - Ganesha, Shiva, Shakti (Amba, Durga, etc), Vishnu, Surya. This Puja is called as Panchayatna Puja or simply Panch dev Puja.

    We, Smarta consider all forms of God as equal and that they are manefestations of same God. One deity is the main and is kept in center. Other 4 deities are in 4 corners in a particular arrangement. The other 4 deities help you get closer to your central deity. Again, in one family, one brother can be a Shiva devotee and another one a Vishnu. Hence one is called as Shaiva-smarta and another Vaishnava-Smarta.

    It is perfectly fine to worship Shiva and Vishnu and even the forms of Vishnu like Rama and Krishna separately. Adi Shankara propagated Smarta Dharma and added skanda (Kartikeyan, Murugan), as the sixth deity. Hence the people are united with this approach and there is no denigration of any deity.

    According to one custom, only natural stones are used instead of Idols.

    Now the thing I was wondering, sometimes I'm unsure as to whether or not I should do my daily offerings to all three deities as one or individually? Either way I've tried it I say a prayer to each one as an individual.
    I've thought about just doing it to one or my 'favourite' for the daily stuff but I can't help but feel like including the other in whatever I do offer.
    Technically, you have to offer to all deities, but one deity is central.

    Emotional attachment is more important. Hence if you are praying to Krishna, keeping in mind that all forms of God are same and my prayers and offering go to all other deities, it is fine. But this is for mental worship and prayers. You will have to pour water on all deities.

    One cannot be attracted to an equal degree towards all forms of God. It is natural to be attracted to any one form. If Krishna is attracting you to a greater degree, then Krishna is the best that suits you.

    You can know this in a simple way. Keep gazing at idol or photo of Krishna for 1 min. Later after few minutes gaze for 1 min to Lord Shiva. One any one form of God, you mind will calm easily and faster. Same is the case with nama-japa. If you chant Om Namah Shiaya for 5 minutes and Shri Krishna Sharanam Mama, in any one mantra, you will find more bhAva and your mind will easily calm down. Hence you will be naturally attracted towards one deity.

    Please visit below links for more details.

    PanchAyatana Puja

    Shankara Sampradaya - Info on SmArta SampradAya

    I hope this is helpful

    Hari OM

    Indiaspirituality
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

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    Re: Devotion to Vishnu and Shiva.

    there is another way. According to One Upanishad, Narasimha Uttara Tapaniya Upanishad, First one worships Shiva and Vishnu individually, then you have to pull all of them into a Shiva Linga and worship all three as one.

    Third Chapter

    Thus after worshipping with nectar (Ananda Amrutha) the four fold Brahmas (Devatha, Teacher, Mantra and the soul), Vishnu, Rudra separately and then together in the form of Linga with offerings and then unifying the linga forms in the Atma Jyothi (Light of the soul) and filling up the macro, micro and causal bodies with this light, we have to unify Atma Jyothi which is their basis with macro, micro, root and witness properties.
    Hari OM

    Indiaspirituality
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  5. #5

    Re: Devotion to Vishnu and Shiva.

    [QUOTE]here is another way. According to One Upanishad, Narasimha Uttara Tapaniya Upanishad, First one worships Shiva and Vishnu individually, then you have to pull all of them into a Shiva Linga and worship all three as one./QUOTE]

    Namaste,

    This sounds very interesting, I've read before that a Shivling can be representative of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva and it's crossed my mind a few times while offering or in prayer.
    I'll definitely have to research this further and see how I can apply it.

    Every time I feel I've figured something thing out or that I'm happy with one way, something new comes up! not like it's a bad thing mind, I like learning and developing and I know I still have a way to go.
    Shivasya hridayam vishnur: Vishnoscha hridayam shivah

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    Re: Devotion to Vishnu and Shiva.

    [quote=peasandbones;110545]
    here is another way. According to One Upanishad, Narasimha Uttara Tapaniya Upanishad, First one worships Shiva and Vishnu individually, then you have to pull all of them into a Shiva Linga and worship all three as one./QUOTE]

    Namaste,

    This sounds very interesting, I've read before that a Shivling can be representative of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva and it's crossed my mind a few times while offering or in prayer.
    I'll definitely have to research this further and see how I can apply it.

    Every time I feel I've figured something thing out or that I'm happy with one way, something new comes up! not like it's a bad thing mind, I like learning and developing and I know I still have a way to go.
    Namaste,

    Since you like to do some research, some info

    You may have noted that the linga is always called 'Shiva Linga' and not 'Shankara Linga' or 'Rudra Linga'. You may have also noted that Shiva and Shankara (and Rudra) are interchangeably used.

    According to Adi Shankara and Shaiva-s, Shiva represents formless God i.e. NirguNa Brahman. The word 'Shiva' is often translated as 'Pure' or 'Auspiciousness'

    According to Advaita and SmArta ( which is worship of 5 deities - Ganesh, Shiva, Shakti, Vishnu and Surya), from formless all forms of Gods are used. Here the difference is between God and Demi-god meaning devata or deva. Surya is typically a demi-god but is said to represent the shAkshi bhAva (being witness) and all-knowing. At times Surya is often worshiped as Surya-nArAyaNa.

    While doing research, try to think in a direction that helps you to progress in spirituality.

    Anything that solves your problem and is not against shastra-s is good.

    According to Linga PurANa, from Shiva Linga, which appeared as beacon of Light, which had no beginning or end, Vishnu and Brahma were born. Here born does not mean birth. It means that from one Shiva, they were separated into three. In other PurANa-s you may find that from Vishnu, Rudra and Brahma were born.

    To me, there is no contradiction, if I take the supreme reality as formless, give it any name say Shiva or NArAyaNa or even if Rudra or Vishnu is shown as born, it is just a separation of three, from one, which were earlier in the integrated form. This separation is due to the different work they are attributed to i.e. Creation, Preservation and Destruction.

    Followers of other sampradAya-s may have different opinion.

    In case of confusion, surrender to God and pray to him to show the correct way and then just let go, just let go.

    Repeat it till you get solution. It may take time. The answer of prayer depends upon intensity or force of our surrender and sincerity. Always have faith, prayers are not unheard. Always have Faith - God exists.

    Hari OM
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

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    Re: Devotion to Vishnu and Shiva.

    Quote Originally Posted by peasandbones View Post
    Namaste

    Both Sri Vishnu (and his forms) and Mahadev are dear to me although I do find myself leaning more towards Vishnu/Krishna. On our shrine I have a space for a shivling which I pour water and apply sandalwood everyday and perform puja to every Monday, I have pictures of Narayan & Lakshmi and one of Krishna also. Every day I offer a lamp, incense and flower/rice.

    Now the thing I was wondering, sometimes I'm unsure as to whether or not I should do my daily offerings to all three deities as one or individually? Either way I've tried it I say a prayer to each one as an individual.
    I've thought about just doing it to one or my 'favourite' for the daily stuff but I can't help but feel like including the other in whatever I do offer.

    This probably all sounds trivial but I haven't really found another thread where it concerns offerings/prayers to both Shiva and Vishnu.

    I can't really imagine one without the other.
    Vannakkam: It depends on what you feel, but it seems to me you're leaning toward or part of a sect that not only allows, but cherishes the worship of multiple deities. (Smarta, Sanatan style). But a staunch Saiva or Vaishnava wouldn't.

    So it's up to the individual really. Most people I've encountered do have a central God or Goddess that gets most of the attention.

    Aum Namasivaya

  8. #8

    Re: Devotion to Vishnu and Shiva.

    Namaste,

    Thanks for the info Indiaspirituality Amrut, I've many of these things come up or go through my mind and I do pray for guidance (although the answers lead me to more questions sometimes) as well as 'doing what feels right'.

    I think sometimes I get side tracked thinking that I'm supposed to fall in line with a particular sect and it throws me a little even though scriptures point towards devotion ultimately being the key.
    I have looked at Smartha in the past but couldn't find enough info to really go deeper (unless I'm looking in the wrong places) and since Advaita has been mentioned I've started to look more into that, looks like I've got my homework set up!
    Shivasya hridayam vishnur: Vishnoscha hridayam shivah

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    Re: Devotion to Vishnu and Shiva.

    Namaste
    Quote Originally Posted by peasandbones View Post
    I have looked at Smartha in the past but couldn't find enough info to really go deeper (unless I'm looking in the wrong places) and since Advaita has been mentioned I've started to look more into that, looks like I've got my homework set up!
    I would say it's a matter of preference. To worship one or the other, Lord Vishnu or Lord Shiva, or both. Devotees who worship both of them usually develop a greater affection towards one of them.

    As for the philosophical background of worship, one can think that the supreme reality (Supreme Brahman) is formless but just appears in the form of the gods, Lord Vishnu and Lord Shiva, like Indiaspirituality Amrut said, but they can also be worshiped in a vaishnava manner.
    What is a vaishnava philosophical background of worship?
    That would be to think that they are eternal persons, the eternal Supreme Brahman who is manifested in two eternal forms, one as Lord Vishnu and the other Lord Shiva. It is said that Supreme Brahman is just One but He appears in many personal forms all of which eternal persons Vishnu, Krishna, Rama, Nrisimha, Shiva (Sadasiva), Varaha, etc. So according to this view supreme reality as Supreme Brahman is neither formless nor impersonal, nor it manifest itself in a temporary shape made of material nature, ie material body or form. It is contrary to that. Supreme reality is Supreme Brahman who is the Supreme Person who has eternal personal forms (Vishnu, Krishna, ... Sadasiva, ... ) whose forms or bodies consisting of eternal existence of Brahman, ie eternal spiritual forms (not material forms or material bodies).

    These are two different views that represent different traditions, Shankara and vaishnava.

    regards

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    Re: Devotion to Vishnu and Shiva.

    Sri Kanchi Mahaperiyavar, though a Shaivite and a devotee of mother Kamakshi has revered Sri Vishnu Sahasranamam on occassions - once he was down with a great fever and he requested that pundits in Vishnu Sahasranama be brought before him and recite the sloka - as it turned out, his fever was relieved in an hour after he started listening to the sloka being recited from a crowd of Vishnu sahasranama pundits. Sri Mahaswamigal also used to encourage people for their faith and devotion in their chosen deity, be it Shaiva or Vaishnava.

    Known to be a smarta, Sri Adishankara Bhagawathpaadal, the great Acharya, worshiped both Shaiva and Vaishnava deities.

    In modern times, Sri U.Ve. Muralidhara Swamigal, born in Shaivite family, worships/reveres both Shaiva and Vaishnava deities as I've seen him offer spiritual discourses and praying to both deities.
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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