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Thread: How atman got separate from Brahman?

  1. #1

    How atman got separate from Brahman?

    I’m not talking about reincarnation here, but to get a clear view how atman became separated from Brahman in the first place.


    The atman became separated from Brahman because it fell out of favour with Brahman, or became attracted to the illusory material world.
    In this state of the human being, the atman residing inside the human form, has its mode of goodness transformed to modes of passion and ignorance.
    http://astrovision.ca/pages/articles...-suffering.php



    I took some time reading some Hindu source but still don’t get it. It is said that due to ignorance that atman became separated from Brahman and samsara is manifest as a mean for the ignorant soul to cultivate wisdom thus re-unite with Brahman once again.


    First, how can atman be ignorant since atman is distinguish from body and mind?
    Second, how did atman became attracted to material world since the human body and its sense organs are form later?


    There are also different interpretation of atman from different commentators, anyone please point out the most reliable source to this topic or help explain it.


    Regards

  2. #2
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    Re: How atman got separate from Brahman?

    Atman is never seperated from Brahman. It is a continuation of brahman. If brahman is the space then the same space is there in a room or a vessel. Is the space seperated ?

    The sunlight is there everywhere. I put reflectors and direct the light to a dark room. The room gets lightened up. The continuity of light is still there.

    So brahman or consciousness is unseparable entity whic is all pervading and all encomapssing.

    Just to have a seperate identity for transactional purposes - we call the reflected light, or the space within a vessel in different name. For brahman it is atman.

    Here the mind is the reflector. The mind is lightened up by consciousness and the mind in turn lightens up the enumerous minds of the lower supporting structures likes organs and cells.
    Love and best wishes:hug:

  3. #3

    Re: How atman got separate from Brahman?

    I don't percieve any solid difference between the two. Brahman in an intellect could be called atma , and Brahman outside the ego bubble could be called God.

  4. #4
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    Re: How atman got separate from Brahman?

    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by devaraja View Post
    how atman became separated from Brahman in the first place.
    By definition nothing can be separate from brahman.

    It seems by your question you have chosen to start at the deep end of the pool regarding the study of sanātana dharma. Please let us know where you are at in your studies and perhaps we can help you find a place where sure-footing can occur.

    iti śivaṁ


    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  5. #5

    Re: How atman got separate from Brahman?

    Thank you all for the replies.

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hari o
    ~~~~~~

    namasté


    By definition nothing can be separate from brahman.

    It seems by your question you have chosen to start at the deep end of the pool regarding the study of sanātana dharma. Please let us know where you are at in your studies and perhaps we can help you find a place where sure-footing can occur.

    iti śivaṁ

    I'm at the kindergarten level.
    The way i'm studying Hinduism is rather casually unsystematic such as reading post from forums and random Hindu source from google then further research any question that pop up in mind.

    And please do help me with the footing, i will appreciate that members here guiding me through the thick jungle of misconception.

  6. #6

    Re: How atman got separate from Brahman?

    This question is another way of asking How did God create the world?

    If we ponder on this a bit͵ we see that there is no rhyme or reason behind creation. Creation simply exists. The world is not bounded by any rules that could be reasoned out.

    Another way of seeing this is mathematically:

    We have learnt the evaluation of the infinite series:

    1 + 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + ..... = 2

    In reality the quantity on the left end never ceases; it simply goes on and on. But in practical life we see that the sum definitely and unambiguously approaches the value 2 and we are well able to satisfy ourselves by using 2 wherever the quantity on the left appears.

    In a similar way͵ constructs like Brahman and Atman are the closest and most satisfactory approxomations to The Truth and such constructs ultimately take us to the truth - and yet they are not The Truth which is beyond Naama and Roopa.

  7. #7

    Re: How atman got separate from Brahman?

    Quote Originally Posted by harih View Post
    This question is another way of asking �How did God create the world?�

    If we ponder on this a bit͵ we see that there is no rhyme or reason behind creation. Creation simply exists. The world is not bounded by any rules that could be reasoned out.
    I think i understand better now, thanks.


    Quote Originally Posted by harih View Post
    Another way of seeing this is mathematically:

    We have learnt the evaluation of the infinite series:

    1 + 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + ..... = 2

    In reality the quantity on the left end never ceases; it simply goes on and on. But in practical life we see that the sum definitely and unambiguously approaches the value �2� and we are well able to satisfy ourselves by using �2� wherever the quantity on the left appears.

    In a similar way͵ constructs like Brahman and Atman are the closest and most satisfactory approxomations to �The Truth� and such constructs ultimately take us to the truth - and yet they are not �The Truth� which is beyond Naama and Roopa.
    By this, can we say that all individual consciousness are not static because they came from one source and will continue to spread?

  8. #8

    Re: How atman got separate from Brahman?

    Namasthe All
    IN BG..didn't Lord say that HE started creation which is continuing and finally merges everything into HIM?

  9. #9
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    Re: How atman got separate from Brahman?

    hariḥ o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by devaraja View Post
    Thank you all for the replies.
    The way i'm studying Hinduism is rather casually unsystematic such as reading post from forums and random Hindu source from google then further research any question that pop up in mind.

    And please do help me with the footing, i will appreciate that members here guiding me through the thick jungle of misconception.
    There is an ocean of knowledge to consider , please see this post: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1946&highlight=ocean

    Yet if one wishes to begin, it would be good to see this ocean in just one cup. That would be the bhāgavad gītā and considered the cream of the veda-s. It gives you a full 360º view of the knowledge at hand.

    Within our sanātana dharma (~Hinduism~) there is a classical view of 6 schools of thought (or saḍ darśana) or the 6 schools of vision, seeing, sight. We know them as :
    • śāṁkhya
    • yoga
    • vedānta
    • mīmāṃsā
    • nyāya
    • vaiśeṣika
    The 6 darśana-s (seeing, looking, knowledge, traditional doctrine or precept , collection of such doctrines) are so complete in themselves, that many people took the 6 to be independent views. This is not the case, it is the 6, when taken as whole give a 360º view of Reality.
    A good book on the 6 schools is 'The Systems of Indian Philosophy', by Subodh Kapoor

    Last, if you are not just window shopping and wish to go deeper into the knowledge, then I would consider the top 10 upaniṣad-s. This post reviews them for you: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=4617

    In my humble opinion after reading the information above one can begin to form a reasonable point of view regarding sanātana dharma. All along the way one can ask questions here on HDF and get other's insights and their take on the knowledge. You will (quickly) find the views are rarely unanimous .

    iti śivaṁ
    Last edited by yajvan; 25 November 2013 at 02:01 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  10. #10

    Re: How atman got separate from Brahman?

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hariḥ o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté


    There is an ocean of knowledge to consider , please see this post: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1946&highlight=ocean

    Yet if one wishes to begin, it would be good to see this ocean in just one cup. That would be the bhāgavad gītā and considered the cream of the veda-s. It gives you a full 360º view of the knowledge at hand.

    Within our sanātana dharma (~Hinduism~) there is a classical view of 6 schools of thought (or saḍ darśana) or the 6 schools of vision, seeing, sight. We know them as :
    • śāṁkhya
    • yoga
    • vedānta
    • mīmāṃsā
    • nyāya
    • vaiśeṣika
    The 6 darśana-s (seeing, looking, knowledge, traditional doctrine or precept , collection of such doctrines) are so complete in themselves, that many people took the 6 to be different views. This is not the case, it is the 6, when taken as whole give a 360º view of Reality.
    A good book on the 6 schools is 'The Systems of Indian Philosophy', by Subodh Kapoor

    Last, if you are not just window shopping and wish to go deeper into the knowledge, then I would consider the top 10 upaniṣad-s. This post reviews them for you: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=4617

    In my humble opinion after reading the information above one can begin to form a reasonable point of view regarding sanātana dharma. All along the way one can ask questions here on HDF and get other's insights and their take on the knowledge. You will (quickly) find the views are rarely unanimous .

    iti śivaṁ
    Great thanks!
    Before my eyes get too fatigue with too much reading, may i request about a few nice links to downloadable audio dharma talks from any insightful Hindu teachers.

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