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Thread: the world is an illusion, but its real enough

  1. #61
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    Re: the world is an illusion, but its real enough

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    ... why even bring in the notion that the world is illusion or māyā. What contribution does it have for the adhikārin¹ or for that matter the paśu¹? Surely all the siddhānta-s could stand on their own merit without the need for māyā.

    One view is this. If I tell you that the diamond ring you have on your finger is fake, and the setting is not gold, it is made from some tin and lead, its value to you is reduced substantially. So much so you think, why do I even have this ? Why burden my hand with something that is just glass and tin ?
    The world offered as the possibility of illusion is the same . The wise inform us , finite things ( the world and its offers) do not contain happiness¹ - why then pursue it ?

    So, yajvan what is one to do ? Become a rock and do nothing ? This always becomes a reasonable question to ask. I will see what offers other HDF members care to offer.

    iti śivaṁ

    1. This wisdom can be found in the chāndogya upaniad, where sanatkumāra is instructing nārada and says, nālpe sukham asti or finite (alpa) things do not (na) contain happiness (suka).

    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #62
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    Re: the world is an illusion, but its real enough

    hari o
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    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    So, yajvan what is one to do ?
    Some who are immature (apāka) will act foolishly. Oh, so everything is illusion then too so is my behavior and I can do what ever I please.
    This only gets one deeper into hot water... for not having clarity of vision and for choosing actions that are not life supporting. This is not the best course of action and breeds more grief and attachment to the world at large.

    iti śivaṁ
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #63
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    Re: the world is an illusion, but its real enough

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté



    Some who are immature (apāka) will act foolishly. Oh, so everything is illusion then too so is my behavior and I can do what ever I please.
    This only gets one deeper into hot water... for not having clarity of vision and for choosing actions that are not life supporting. This is not the best course of action and breeds more grief and attachment to the world at large.

    iti śivaṁ
    Namaste Yajvan ji,

    I agree. when we are in vyavahArika plain, we have to deal accordingly. I cannot say, 'I am Brahman'. I am human being for all bank transactions and they will need my signature to pass my cheque

    we should not act foolishly. Before entering into advaita, which belongs to 4th ashram, one has to be purified inwardly and should be capable to think beyond body. Yet while dealing in society, he has to stay in relative reality and interact accordingly.

    Hari OM
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  4. #64

    Re: the world is an illusion, but its real enough

    Hello,

    First of all, I am a new member to HDF, and I hope you do not think of me as hijacking this discussion. Actually, I wanted to share a view of reality as illusion, or vice versa, as a reply to the original poster.

    This is a non-solipsistic view which I have garnered through philophisizing and referencing Hindu thought, but even then I feel that no thinking person (even a spiritual Hindu) can discount solipsism. In fact, I think I remember reading that even Swami Vivekananda in one of his books (I think it was "Talks with Swami Vivekananda") has said that philosophically speaking one cannot be sure if anything other than one's own consciousness "exists". That "everything / everyone else that we interact with" could just be an illusion projected onto one's consciousness. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    Anyway, the point of view that I am putting forth is NOT solipsistic. It is in the form of a simple diagram I have created, which can be found at this link:

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...tymodelnew.jpg

    I think the thought behind this point of view is partly Advaitic and partly Dvaitic (maybe someone on this forum can enlighten me which part it falls under, if that doesn't take away from the discussion; that is another reason I wanted to share this diagram / point of view).
    Last edited by nparab; 25 March 2014 at 02:57 AM.

  5. #65
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    Re: the world is an illusion, but its real enough

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namaste

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    What is this māyā ? It is rooted ( √ ) in mā or measuring and this 'yā' is restraining . Yet many say māyā is the notion of illusion. How are these two i.e. illusion and measuring/restraining , connected?

    Māyā is the illusion that the Infinite can be measured out or restrained. It is the idea that this Infinite Being that we experience as the universe ( and what it contains) is made of parts, finite items, zillions of them, but still finite , within boundaries. It is the boundless measured into the boundaries , this is the illusion of avidya ( ignorance).

    This has been used as a tool by the wise to help with ~framing~ what is worthy of pursuit and what is not.

    To rid one's self of this māyā is a bi-product or residual result found from the recognition ( re-cognition) of who we really are, our real nature.
    I happened to bump into this post today... I thought one more thing could be added to the overall conversation.

    This māyā , if we wish to call it ~illusion~ then it is the illusion that one considers themselves separate from the universe .There is 'me' and there is everything else ( the 'not me' portion).
    When one is in this frame of reference then then we can consider that person the sasārī¹, the wise often call the paśu¹.
    Yet when everything appears divine to you , as an extension of your own SELF then all is right with the world; one understands this māyā as that tool of the Supreme to throttle it Self down into the field of individuality. When that experience is opposite of this, then you are that limited being , the sasārī within the world of differentiated awareness , in a world of diverse and separate things.

    As I have mentioned in a post or two above ( #39, #42, etc), within kaśmir śaivism ( which is just one frame of reference) this māyā is not the villain, it is an energy ( His energy ) used by the Supreme. Yet, the person with the clear mind sees that in both cases e.g. the sasārī or that person with divine vision ( the accomplished one, the avibhāgin) are both the Supreme just in different conditions. How could one not be this, if we consider all is brahman ( all is Supreme, all śiva).

    So the difference in a nut shell is this:
    • by the energy (śakti) of māyā one experiences the world and themselves as separate and different from the universe and resides within that frame of reference.
    • by the energy of the light of consciousness, some call vimarśa, one sees the world as an extension of their own Self. There is no separateness; there is unity within the field of diversity.
    • In both cases the Divine is still the Divine.
    iti śiva

    words
    • saṁsārī - is he/she that is within saṁsāra - passing through a succession of states , circuit of mundane existence , some consider birth after birth. For those that do not digest this birth-after-birth, it is that person that continues to cycle though wake-dream-sleep consciousness without ever experiencing the underlying 4th condition which is turīya.
    • paśu - any tethered animal; domesticated animal. The paśūni or cattle
    Last edited by yajvan; 17 November 2014 at 07:42 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  6. #66
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    Re: the world is an illusion, but its real enough

    The world is an illusion. The only reason to believe so in Advaita is that something doesn't exist. The most impossible thing is that something exists.
    Last edited by hinduism♥krishna; 28 June 2015 at 10:18 PM.

  7. #67
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    Re: the world is an illusion, but its real enough

    Namaste HLK,

    Your statement results from any pure logical analysis or based on what scriptures say ?

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  8. #68
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    Re: the world is an illusion, but its real enough

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Namaste HLK,

    Your statement results from any pure logical analysis or based on what scriptures say ?

    OM
    I can not explain that. I've always been felt that existence of something is impossible, before reading any scripture. Cause being one can not have power to multiply or divide itself. It's impossible. On what basis it would be divided when there is only the cause itself. If we said by imagination, then also it would be irrational as the imagination also can come under the frame of cause only. So there is neither world (effect) nor an imagination of world (cause of effect).

    May be MANDUKYA karika has references about this

    Everything is absolute flawless.

    Shuka says to Parikshita:


    " You yourself are That Brahman. You alone are that Supreme Absolute abode .. Seeing this cautiously you should fix your self in that undivided Atma " ( Bhagavata purana 12.5.11 )


    hinduism♥krishna™ ©

  9. #69
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    Re: the world is an illusion, but its real enough

    Excellent new insight, HLK !

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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