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Thread: Hare Krsna!

  1. #41
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    Re: Hare Krsna!

    Quote Originally Posted by isavasya View Post
    Namaste Omkara,

    I will be even happier if you direct me to the relevant section of Chandogya Upanishad for any further history of Satyakama's mother or Father. I have not read the whole Upanishad but it is only right to back up any theory on a given text by claims of that that text. One can interpolate texts or write any smriti to link up stories from Shruti. Sudas ji debunked one today. I am not speculating or declaring that Satyakama's father could not have been a Brahmin. But for sure the conduct of her mother was not that of a Brahmin and and on that basis I am not recognising her as a Brahmin.
    As I said, there is no information anywhere about the background of Satyakama's parents. That being the case, the simplest explanation is to presume that she was a brahmin woman married to a brahmin husband who failed to tell her his gotra before he died. Any other interpretation needlessly casts doubt on the character of Sayakama's mother. One can argue that Shankaracharya is whitewashing her, but the revisionists are doing the opposite, and that is even worse.
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


    A Shaivite library
    http://www.scribd.com/HinduismLibrary

  2. #42
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    Re: Hare Krsna!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaskaran Singh View Post
    I vaguely recall madhvAchArya arguing against birth-based varNa in the tantrasArasaNgraha, although my memory of where the verse is seems to be failing me...
    You are wrong. Not only did Madhvacharya argue for birth based varna, he said that varna and gender are intrinsic to the soul and a jiva is always born in the same varna and gender, and retains the same varna and gender in moksha.
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


    A Shaivite library
    http://www.scribd.com/HinduismLibrary

  3. #43
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    Smile Re: Hare Krsna!

    Quote Originally Posted by isavasya View Post
    Dear HK
    I didn't interpret satykama's varna from ambiguity of their parents varna but made case of his parents not being brahmin from their conduct.

    Second thing, Christians and Jews are jeevas trapped in maya. One can be a good sanatani or a bad Sanatani, still everyone is governed by laws of Sanatan Dharm only. I gave you example of Daityas. They were not from one of the 4 castes but still Sanatanis. They did recite mantras and got boons from our devtas.
    yes, there may be good sanatani or bad sanatani .But know that by following jesus principles ,you wouldn't be called as sanatana. Jesus principles has nothing to do with hindu sanatana dharma.

    You are misinterpretating our,sanatana dharma concept. Why hindu dharma is appropriately referred as sanatana dharma ?
    Because it gives us the eternality. That's why it is called as eternal religion.

    How hindu or sanatana dharma can be eternal in the way you think ? Yes, it is eternal. But dharma has no absolute eternality. After self realisation, there is no dharma. There is only the wholeness of bramhan. No any veda, upanishada or purana.

    Hare krishna ♥

  4. #44

    Re: Hare Krsna!

    Pranam-s, Everyone:

    I would just like to add that the father of Rishi Śiśu (R.V.9.112) was not a Brahmana. His dad was a leech (i.e., a physician, which - if I recall correctly - is a "Shudra" caste as per the Smriti-s).

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    Re: Hare Krsna!

    Quote Originally Posted by Omkara View Post
    You are wrong. Not only did Madhvacharya argue for birth based varna, he said that varna and gender are intrinsic to the soul and a jiva is always born in the same varna and gender, and retains the same varna and gender in moksha.
    As far as I know, he was of the view that the jAti of the soul is unaffected by the "udAsIna" karma-s of the current and previous lifetime, but takes the view that the varNa is based on the guNa-s at the present time, not at birth, so perhaps you and IshAvAsya are mixing up the two terms? I explicitly referred to birth-based varNAshrama. Also, he says in the bhAgavatatAtparyanirNaya that the guNa's are constantly evolving (svataH pariNAminI) indicating that one's varNa is (from his perspective) constantly evolving.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sudas Paijavana View Post
    Pranam-s, Everyone:

    I would just like to add that the father of Rishi Śiśu (R.V.9.112) was not a Brahmana. His dad was a leech (i.e., a physician, which - if I recall correctly - is a "Shudra" caste as per the Smriti-s).
    No one ever said that all the Vedic R^iShi-s were brAhmaNa-s, so I don't see your point, as this does not prove that varNa is not based on birth.
    Last edited by Jaskaran Singh; 01 December 2013 at 01:59 AM.
    படைபோர் புக்கு முழங்கும்அப் பாஞ்சசன்னியமும் பல்லாண்டே
    May your pA~nchajanya shankha which reverberates on the battlefield, last thousands upon thousands of years...
    http://archives.mirroroftomorrow.org...anchajanya.jpg

  6. #46

    Re: Hare Krsna!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaskaran Singh View Post
    No one ever said that all the Vedic R^iShi-s were brAhmaNa-s, so I don't see your point, as this does not prove that varNa is not based on birth.
    Dude,

    You have me all wrong. It strictly proves that if you are a wonderful poet and a master of Vedic meter, you can be a Rishi.

    Anyways, the Rishi, in said question, says that "we all follow our desires like kine". So, if your future son wants to be a hockey player, all the best to him. And, if your son wants to be a yajna priest and go through tutelage, all the best to him. After all, he will only be "following his desire".

  7. #47
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    Smile Re: Hare Krsna!

    Namaste,

    I really got surprised when I read madhava interpretations about varna .When I was reading it, I felt like I am reading the abrahamic religion type data. Its not a vedic at all.

    shudra soul ,bramhana soul? Don't you think this is something new and non-vedic type. Soul is attributeless. It is omnipresent .So how can one adjoin any attribute to shiva soul ?

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    Re: Hare Krsna!

    Quote Originally Posted by hinduism♥krishna View Post
    yes, there may be good sanatani or bad sanatani .But know that by following jesus principles ,you wouldn't be called as sanatana. Jesus principles has nothing to do with hindu sanatana dharma.

    You are misinterpretating our,sanatana dharma concept. Why hindu dharma is appropriately referred as sanatana dharma ?
    Because it gives us the eternality. That's why it is called as eternal religion.

    How hindu or sanatana dharma can be eternal in the way you think ? Yes, it is eternal. But dharma has no absolute eternality. After self realisation, there is no dharma. There is only the wholeness of bramhan. No any veda, upanishada or purana.

    Hare krishna ♥
    Dear HK,

    I am not misinterpreting Sanatan Dharm. As a matter of fact, I am asking you to look from perspective of Shruti or even itihaas. You are looking at things from today's perspective when there are organised religions like Christianity and Judaism etc. Lets roll back time to Mahabharata. Now good or bad everyone was only a Sanatan Dharmi. Nobody was denied the right to be a Sanatani. Even the Atyachari, Asuras, Villains were allowed to pray. The grace of Parameshwara is not denied to anyone. Whoever wants to worship Bhagwan is allowed to and solely by virtue of being a Bhakt, she is a Sanatani.
    When the light has risen, there is no day, no night, neither existence nor non-existence; Siva alone is there. That is the eternal, the adorable light of Savitri, - and the ancient wisdom proceeded thence (Svetasvatara Upanishad IV-18). :)

  9. #49
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    Re: Hare Krsna!

    Quote Originally Posted by hinduism♥krishna View Post
    Namaste,

    I really got surprised when I read madhava interpretations about varna .When I was reading it, I felt like I am reading the abrahamic religion type data. Its not a vedic at all.

    shudra soul ,bramhana soul? Don't you think this is something new and non-vedic type. Soul is attributeless. It is omnipresent .So how can one adjoin any attribute to shiva soul ?
    Namaste,
    I'm not trying to defend madhva or anything, but if you actually bothered to read his siddhAntasAra or padArtha sa~Ngraha, you would realize that he views the jIva as a reflection or pratibimba of "brahman" (pratibimbastu bimbAvinAbhUtsatsadrshaH) so it makes sense to give qualities to the jIva from his perspective, but he never says that the sharIra of a human is "made in the image of viShNu," that would sound abrahamic. In addition, the jIva is separated from brahman due to aha~NkAra, not due to "original sin" or something. Can you please not call a Hindu philosophy "abrahamic," especially if you don't know much about it, thanks.
    படைபோர் புக்கு முழங்கும்அப் பாஞ்சசன்னியமும் பல்லாண்டே
    May your pA~nchajanya shankha which reverberates on the battlefield, last thousands upon thousands of years...
    http://archives.mirroroftomorrow.org...anchajanya.jpg

  10. #50
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    Re: Hare Krsna!

    Quote Originally Posted by isavasya View Post
    Dear HK,

    I am not misinterpreting Sanatan Dharm. As a matter of fact, I am asking you to look from perspective of Shruti or even itihaas. You are looking at things from today's perspective when there are organised religions like Christianity and Judaism etc. Lets roll back time to Mahabharata. Now good or bad everyone was only a Sanatan Dharmi. Nobody was denied the right to be a Sanatani. Even the Atyachari, Asuras, Villains were allowed to pray. The grace of Parameshwara is not denied to anyone. Whoever wants to worship Bhagwan is allowed to and solely by virtue of being a Bhakt, she is a Sanatani.
    Namaste ,

    Asuras are not sanatani. Sanatani or hindus means the one who follows veda and vedic scriptures and asuras don't follow it. They are opponents of veda. However there are very few exceptions like pralahda.

    Yes, everyone is allowed to chant names of bhagavan ( I don't support this in regards with vedic or tantric worship. Only twice-born hindus are elligible to worship according to the view of krishna ) .But one would not be called as,sanatani unless he doesn't accept and follow hindu dharma.

    Hari narayana ♥

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