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Thread: You are GOD - part 1

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    Re: You are GOD - part 1

    Edited
    Last edited by sanathan; 02 December 2013 at 09:08 PM. Reason: Want to remove it as OP accepted his mistake and edited his post

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    Re: You are GOD - part 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality Amrut View Post
    Very well explained, most of the Advaita terms are understood now.

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    Re: You are GOD - part 1

    Quote Originally Posted by hinduism♥krishna View Post
    Namaste , jopamala.

    Please don't put here your distorted translations and myths propagated by iskcon . You didn't mention any verse and chapter number. Besides , after reading this post .
    Namaste
    you claim yourself to be vaishnab who believe that jiva is Brahman. This is the greatest sin on the part of vaishnab. being advaitian you do not believe in nama rupa and guna (name,form and guna)of brahman ,how can you claim yourself to be vaishnab is totally misleading however, I am sure you have heard of great vaishnab literature name sri chaitanya charitamrita written on sri chaitanya mahaprabhu’s vaishnabism. In chaitanya charitamrita Madhya lila chapter 18 :

    jai murha ( foolish person) kahe jiva iswara hoye sama
    saito pasandi (atheist or impious) hoya dande tare yama

    Trans : the foolish person who says that jive and iswara ( Brahman) is the same he is an atheist /hypocrite and yamadev punishes him.

    Since you yourself is Brahman , why should you feel to study bhagavat puran. I advise you to study Bhagavat puran with the mind with which vyashdeva has written it because he was also a advaitin but he was unhappy. after writing Bhagavat puran he realized the rasa tatta of sri Krishna lila and enjoyed happiness. Bhagavat puran is not open to those who are interested in jnan of nirgun nirakan Brahman and arguments thereof but to them who wants to hear bhagavan sri krishna’s lila rasa only for which great great advaitin masters has converted themselves into bhakti margi from time to time. you can get the names if you try. after all you are not greater advaitian than sri sukhdeva goswami. I do not think it necessary to give you verse chapter number of bhagavat puran since you know everything !By the way I am not follower of ISKON family rather I am against ISKON way of vaishnabism

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    Re: You are GOD - part 1

    Quote Originally Posted by jopmala View Post
    Namaste
    you claim yourself to be vaishnab who believe that jiva is Brahman. This is the greatest sin on the part of vaishnab. being advaitian you do not believe in nama rupa and guna (name,form and guna)of brahman ,how can you claim yourself to be vaishnab is totally misleading however, I am sure you have heard of great vaishnab literature name sri chaitanya charitamrita written on sri chaitanya mahaprabhu’s vaishnabism. In chaitanya charitamrita Madhya lila chapter 18 :

    jai murha ( foolish person) kahe jiva iswara hoye sama
    saito pasandi (atheist or impious) hoya dande tare yama

    Trans : the foolish person who says that jive and iswara ( Brahman) is the same he is an atheist /hypocrite and yamadev punishes him.

    Since you yourself is Brahman , why should you feel to study bhagavat puran. I advise you to study Bhagavat puran with the mind with which vyashdeva has written it because he was also a advaitin but he was unhappy. after writing Bhagavat puran he realized the rasa tatta of sri Krishna lila and enjoyed happiness. Bhagavat puran is not open to those who are interested in jnan of nirgun nirakan Brahman and arguments thereof but to them who wants to hear bhagavan sri krishna’s lila rasa only for which great great advaitin masters has converted themselves into bhakti margi from time to time. you can get the names if you try. after all you are not greater advaitian than sri sukhdeva goswami. I do not think it necessary to give you verse chapter number of bhagavat puran since you know everything !By the way I am not follower of ISKON family rather I am against ISKON way of vaishnabism
    Namaste , jopmala .

    In the last post , you critisized impersonalists by stating myths and you presented it as if they are stated in bhagavat purana . Your posts are full of myths propagated by some vaishnawas .You are a vaishnawa and I am also vaishnawa. But Do you know what is the difference between you and me ? I believe and follow bhagavat purana and upanishadas , and you believe and follow "chaitanya charitamrita " . Many vedic scholors don't consider it as a authentic scripture . The philosophy of "chaitanya charitamrita" is against veda and bhagavat purana . So do you wanna say who follows "charitamrita" is a vaishnawa and others who don't follow are fool persons . . So do you wanna say those who don't follow that scripture are sinful persons ?

    I didn't say that I don't believe in nama , rupa and lila . It will be a foolish thing to say that lila and tatwa-dnyana are two contradicting things . Persons like you misinterpretes like this . You don't don't even the difference between jiva and atma . What should I say more ?

    Shri krishna says jiva is not the real self , yet you believe the opposite . Shri krishna says jiva merges in me , yet you believe the opposite , shri krishna says I am the jiva , yet you believe the opposite , shri krishna says jiva is imagined as a part , yet you don't accept it , sutaji said that the aim of bhagavt purana is non dual unity of atma and bramhan , yet you think the opposite , shukadeva instructs to parikshita " you are bramhan ,you are that absolute abode " , yet you don't believe this and so on ....

    Look carefully , who is a real vaishnawa ? Those who follow 'bhagavat purana ' or those who follow 'charitamrita' ?

    I think one should not call himself a vaishnawa if he doesn't accept the philosophy of bhagavat purana .

    So according to bhagavat purana ,If a vaishnawa is opposing the bhagavat purana and calling himself different from bramhan, it is sin and yamadeva will punish him . Right ?


    Not only vyasadeva , but also krishna , sutaji , shukadeva all were advaitians . He instructed us to worship hari with advaita knowledge . Remember what shukadeva instructs to parikshita in the end " you are bramhan , you are parabramhan ,you are that absolute abode " So what do you think yamadeva will punish shukadeva ?

    I have already said that the purpose of bhagavt purana is for the kaliyuga . Vyasa deva thought that only knowledge wouldn't be sufficient for kaliyuga .So vyasa was depressed. When narada came , he instructed vyasa to write a scripture which should have both knowledge and lilas of krishna . Narada knew that people would not understand the ultimate philosophy of veda in the kaliyuga . So he says to vyasa that he should write the glories of krishna which will be cause of purifying the minds of ignorant people of kaliyuga . In this way they would know the ultimate knowledge and will become free from the bondage of cycle of birth and death . The intention of lila is to destroy the sins which are barrier for attainment of bramhan . The lilas of shri krishna are very sweet . It gives pleasure to us and by reading these , devotee easily crosses the unbeatable maya .

    Know that bhakti marga is a part of advaita . Vaishnawa is not a philosophy .Vaishnawa means the one who worships the vishnu . No doubt , bhagavat purana teaches to worship hari with the sword of advaita knowledge . Do you know how krishna critisizes those who follow path of duality ? "
    While the Jeeva is not dependent and free, there is fear of God, and those who follow the path of duality become greatly disturbed, given to sorrow. "

    I request you to read to this thread to know more :

    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=12337


    hari nama - just chant and realise hari in your own self .



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    Re: You are GOD - part 1

    Namasthe Sanathan,

    So the entity "person" is the product created by Maya using the substratum SELF. that means it is a by-product(i.e SELF and Maya are not impacted, but caused to create a new entity) or just the combination of both SELF and maya?
    All modifications of forms and names etc. are there in MAyA. However, MAyA on its own is inert. So, the person is created by MAyA with substratum as Self. MAyA powered by the presence of Self as substratum creates Ishvara, this gross world and also subtle world (and all beings therein) which are listed as three different MAyic states of Self in Upanishads. Here, Ishvara is different from the other two as it is not deluded and also that it is non-dual and that it is the Controller and Lord of the two states. In essence, all the above three are nothing but Nirguna Brahman in different states.

    Now about the characters that act in dream are same like characters acting in real world, how? let me explain.. in waking state a person's senses contact with outer world of persons and events..so those are known to him and act accordingly. Other persons' mind/thoughts/subjectiveness can not be felt by that person, but still he believes others have separate minds, because he perceives, communicates and co-relates.
    Correct. The last sentence of your above quote is very important. Can we agree here that the characters in dream including the dreamer’s own character acting the dream apparently show that they have their own minds and separate ‘I’s ? Why and how ?

    a) The mind-wave which makes one believe that it is different from ‘others’ is ‘I’. Let’s remember that ‘I’ is not the being itself but is just a mindwave, the leading mindwave in absence of which it cannot differentiate itself from others. The mind-waves ‘I” and “other(s)” arise simultaneously. Again, it is one of the characteristics of a being to have “I” mindwave but the being can also exist without an ‘I’ as in deep sleep or in coma. Again, this “I” mindwave can vary within the same being depending upon the mental state (read state of brain) of the character, e.g. mentally deranged persons which exhibit a totally different “I” in their fit of madness as compared to when they are mentally fit.

    But as I have stated above and you also have written above, as the dream characters are able to distinguish themselves from “others” in the dream, they must have their own “I”s.

    b) Again, they must apparently possess their own minds. I may dream about my friend or a teacher who is trying to explain me (i.e. the own character of the dreamer acting in the dream) some plan, some phenomenon or anything in the dream cannot do so without having its apparent mind. In fact, for acting its part in the dream separately from “me” in the dream, I (my own actor-dream character) in the dream and the other character in the dream must have different minds as two different characters can’t work with the same mind and act differently or have opposite thoughts. It is not possible.

    But we all know that there is only one mind and there is only one being that is the dreamer. Even the character in the dream acting on behalf of the dreamer in the dream is not real. If that was real then who was dreaming ? Needless to say that all the characters in the dream are not real from the point of waking state of the dreamer. However, if we keep the dream in mind then all the characters are real within the dream-state if we accept the dream as real. So, the characters and the entire world created in the dream is neither real nor unreal and that is MAyic creation.

    The substratum of all characters in the dream is the same individualised consciousness (mind) i.e. of the dreamer. Without the mind of the dreamer, no character in the dream has any existence. All the dream-characters arise from and dissolve back into the mind. When do the characters dissolve back into the mind ? Upon awakening. That is the analogy which can help us understand how a being is generated from Ishvara and keeps going in cycles of this MAYic creation until awakening when it merges back to its Source.

    Its own actor-character of the dreamer in the dream is very important for us to understand the delusion and awakening of beings. I may dream that I am a poor man and unable to feed my family even when in reality I may be a millionaire in waking state. I keep suffering in the dream due to imagined poverty in the dream and when I awaken I find that all sufferings/my bondage to the character of a poor person was unreal.

    Now, can we summarise here ?

    1. The Jeeva actually is mithya because it is none but Brahman as the dream-actor is nothing but the dreamer himself. So, Jeeva was never in bondage but due to delusion created by MAyA, it imagined itself in bondage. However, until awakening occurs, Jeeva remains in bondage as the dreamer’s dream-character remains poor.

    2. It is a unique characteristic of consciousness that even though it is One, it can apparently act as “many” as the dreamer’s consciousness is capable of creating whole dream-world and plethora of characters within the dream. It is capable of creating such mind-waves which can act as individual beings. That is how a dreamer and its own dream-character exist simultaneously.

    3. Advaita says that Jeeva has to constantly believe and have faith that it is non-different from Brahman so that he can awaken faster. Once a person is able to cast off all MAyic superimpositions on himself, he becomes free and is awakened. Like the dream-character merging into dreamer’s mind, the Jeeva merges back into Brahman on awakening. However, it may appear interesting to you that until he is awakened, an Advaitin practitioner prays to God for helping him experience his Oneness with God. So, it is not that an Advaitin discards God ... he loves God more than anything in this in the world as God alone is the reality and being the Controller of MAyic states, He can make the practitioner free from the delusion of MAyA.

    "I am the bubble You are the sea. I am the bubble, make me the see. I am the bubble, make me the sea".

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: You are GOD - part 1

    Quote Originally Posted by sanathan View Post
    Very well explained, most of the Advaita terms are understood now.
    My pleasure. It is good to clear doubts, so that we can stay at peace and practice our path.

    Hari OM
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

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    Re: You are GOD - part 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality Amrut View Post
    It is good to clear doubts, so that we can stay at peace and practice our path.

    Hari OM
    Namaste Indiaspirituality Amrutji

    with due regards I would like to put two questions before you to clear my doubts. you are learned man expert on advaita philosophy which is regarded as most scientific . I will be glad to get answers from advaitic point of view.

    1. what is Maya. I mean, Is Maya a power or who is the creator of Maya

    2. If jiva is Brahman , can Maya be considered to be brahman, if not why.

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    Re: You are GOD - part 1

    Quote Originally Posted by jopmala View Post
    Namaste Indiaspirituality Amrutji

    with due regards I would like to put two questions before you to clear my doubts. you are learned man expert on advaita philosophy which is regarded as most scientific . I will be glad to get answers from advaitic point of view.
    Namaste Jopmala ji,

    I am not an expert, just an average man, trying to live a spiritual life. I am not an authority on spirituality. I would also not say that I represent Advaita. All I can say is that I present view understanding of Advaita.

    Regarding Advaita being scientific, it is all subjective. Some like sweet taste, some spicy. the choice depends upon mental make-up. There is no reason why you like sweet taste and why you do not like spicy or sour taste. All you can say, 'I like' and 'I do not like'.

    I have given answers to your question 1, in other post, but I understand that not all follow my loooonnng posts as I am not a celebrity

    I will attempt to answer in simple way, without quoting shastra-s.

    1. what is Maya. I mean, Is Maya a power or who is the creator of Maya
    mAyA is beginning less, hence it cannot be said that it was created by Brahman or Ishvara. mAyA is the power of Ishvara or saguNa Brahman.

    Nir-guNa Brahman as the name suggests cannot create anything. In short it cannot act anything. the name name says so. As to create anything, one has to take AdhAra of mAyA.

    When Brahman takes AdhAra of mAyA to do any activity, the Brahman is called as sa-guNa Brahman.

    mAyA is the creative power or simply power of Brahman. Brahman can independently exist without mAyA as pure consciousness (NirguNa Brahman), but mAyA cannot stay without Brahman i.e. mAyA is dependent upon Ishvara.

    mAyA is projector and Brahman is screen. Screen is not affected by any kind of projection or say whatever is projected.

    2. If jiva is Brahman , can Maya be considered to be brahman, if not why.
    mAyA is not Brahman, it is power of Brahman.

    Why it cannot be Brahman?

    The answer is because Brahman is beyond guNa-s, while mAyA is called as triguNAtmikA i.e. made up of 3 guNa-s - Sattva, Rajas, Tamas. Hence the creation of mAyA also contains 3 guNa-s. Besides, in Jnana, mAyA ends. One does not experience mAyA, this world, or anything except Brahman, that too not separately.

    Aum

    P.S. I hope everything happens in Good faith and in friendly spirit
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

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    Re: You are GOD - part 1

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post



    a) The mind-wave which makes one believe that it is different from ‘others’ is ‘I’. Let’s remember that ‘I’ is not the being itself but is just a mindwave, the leading mindwave in absence of which it cannot differentiate itself from others. The mind-waves ‘I” and “other(s)” arise simultaneously. Again, it is one of the characteristics of a being to have “I” mindwave but the being can also exist without an ‘I’ as in deep sleep or in coma. Again, this “I” mindwave can vary within the same being depending upon the mental state (read state of brain) of the character, e.g. mentally deranged persons which exhibit a totally different “I” in their fit of madness as compared to when they are mentally fit.

    But as I have stated above and you also have written above, as the dream characters are able to distinguish themselves from “others” in the dream, they must have their own “I”s.

    b) Again, they must apparently possess their own minds. I may dream about my friend or a teacher who is trying to explain me (i.e. the own character of the dreamer acting in the dream) some plan, some phenomenon or anything in the dream cannot do so without having its apparent mind. In fact, for acting its part in the dream separately from “me” in the dream, I (my own actor-dream character) in the dream and the other character in the dream must have different minds as two different characters can’t work with the same mind and act differently or have opposite thoughts. It is not possible.

    But we all know that there is only one mind and there is only one being that is the dreamer. Even the character in the dream acting on behalf of the dreamer in the dream is not real. If that was real then who was dreaming ? Needless to say that all the characters in the dream are not real from the point of waking state of the dreamer. However, if we keep the dream in mind then all the characters are real within the dream-state if we accept the dream as real. So, the characters and the entire world created in the dream is neither real nor unreal and that is MAyic creation.


    OM
    Dhanyavaad!

    I am very clear now with the concepts of Advaita.

    Let me contemplate on it for some time and will come-up with my queries if any.

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    Smile Re: You are GOD - part 1

    Quote Originally Posted by indiaspirituality
    mAyA is not Brahman
    I am totally disagreed with this . Whatever there is , it is bramhan only . There is nothing which cab be seperated from bramhan . So bramhan and maya are not different . Know that seeing maya different from maya is also a maya (illusion) or seeing this world(maya) different from bramhan is also a maya . The fact is like that there is no creation even if bramhan creates the world/maya or there is no maya even if there is a maya . It is not the fact that bramhan creates the world by having changes with help of maya .What seem to be created is bramhan only .The world is bramhan.The maya is bramhan .

    Shastras support that maya is not different from bramhan . Narada ji supports this fact in 11th canto of bhagavat purana ,which is the conversation between narada and vasudeva.


    “ahametatprasankhyanam….. bhavo vidyate kwachit “ (BP 11.16.38)

    Meaning:
    The Lord krishna said - I am the knowledge of these principles and the counting of them. I am the Jeeva, I am the God, I am the wielder of Gunas and I am the Gunas themselves; and without me, who am the Atman of all, there is nothing separate existing.
    Last edited by hinduism♥krishna; 04 December 2013 at 08:11 AM.

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