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Thread: Dear ISKCONITES & Hare Krishna-s

  1. #11
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    Re: Dear ISKCONITES & Hare Krishna-s

    Quote Originally Posted by Sudas Paijavana View Post
    Last time I checked...there were and still are theological disputes or disagreements amongst many Hindu schools of thought. But, using the same logic, I shall be more than happy to hastily and emotionally make a similar charge to show the absurdity of ruining perfectly okay and innocent threads that are only meant to show the OP's appreciation of anything that is related to the preservation of cows:

    Since various theological sects of the Hindu conglomeration exist...that is "negative" for all Hindus.
    Namaste,
    I'm not trying to attack you; I was just stating that you could have phrased your post a bit differently such that others could understand what you were saying. For example, if I were to tell omkAra that "theologically, I don't get along with shaiva-s such as yourself," I would expect to get a different response than if I were to say "I politely disagree with you in regards to some of my philosophical views." In addition, for a thread in which you are trying to show your appreciation for a certain aspect of ISKCON, why would you need to state that you disagree with ISKCONites theologically? There's a place where such verbiage is necessary and there's a place where it isn't. For example, what if I started a thread on my appreciation for ISKCON's ratha yAtrA-s, and started my first statement with "even though I dislike how your founding AchArya, shrIla prabhupAda, made misogynistic comments along the line of 'women are less intelligent than men'..."? That may indeed be true from my perspective, but making such a statement would be blatant disregarding the context and is merely unnecessary (and/or insulting). In my opinion, rAmAnuja said what could be considered as somewhat "vitriolic" statements about advaita and Adi sha~Nkara said somewhat "vitriolic" statements regarding mImAMsa and bauddha dharma; however, that was primarily because they were arguing against the other dharma-s/darshana-s of their time period (hence, it make's sense given the context). I'm sorry if came across as rude in my initial post (the hipster comment was meant as a joke); I hope this post clarifies as to why I made my original statement. I remember you PM'ed me asking as to why devIdAsI was being so harsh in her responses to you and I'm just giving you advice as to how to avoid that. I'm not trying to say that you are a rude individual; to the contrary, in the Demigod worship different from worshiping para-atma?, you, amRit, and devotee were being much more mature than IshAvAsya and avyayAya, who were outright bashing ISKCON.

    P.S. You made a thread about ISCOWP on RF as well, and shivafan and I did respond to that one (I think it's deleted now, I'm not too sure); hence, I didn't feel the need to post here as well.
    Last edited by Jaskaran Singh; 11 January 2014 at 07:49 PM.
    படைபோர் புக்கு முழங்கும்அப் பாஞ்சசன்னியமும் பல்லாண்டே
    May your pA~nchajanya shankha which reverberates on the battlefield, last thousands upon thousands of years...
    http://archives.mirroroftomorrow.org...anchajanya.jpg

  2. #12

    Re: Dear ISKCONITES & Hare Krishna-s

    **misunderstanding resolved**
    Last edited by Sudas Paijavana; 11 January 2014 at 10:29 PM.

  3. #13
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    Re: Dear ISKCONITES & Hare Krishna-s

    Quote Originally Posted by Sudas Paijavana View Post
    Anyone with the right sense of English syntax, diction, and colloquialism can see that there is nothing vitriolic nor debasing in the OP. If there was...even Deva Dasi would have PM-ed me (as she usually did - right away in fact...I would receive a PM as soon as I would make a post). And, come to think of it. She did not. In fact x2, she actually [indirectly] thanked me for this thread.
    It's not necessarily insulting, but it can be interpreted as slightly hostile. This is the definition of the phrase "get along" as per "thefreedictionary.com":

    "get along (with somebody) (spoken)
    to have a good relationship ex. My kids and their cousins really get along with each other.
    See also: along, get"

    Clearly, "don't get along" would be be the negation of that, and could hence be interpreted as "we don't have a good relationship."

    Quote Originally Posted by Sudas Paijavana View Post
    Do you notice how I end it: "...totally bridged our differences..."? English teachers stress the linguistic notion of context clues. Utilizing context clues, it is quite simple to notice how "theologically we don't get along" is simply, in its most basic and general sense, a statement expressing theological differences, kind of like how I analyze one book and you analyze another book. Nothing more, nothing less. Especially when it ends with: "Click me to access one of the best websites of all time". It really is easy as A B C.
    Hmm, I don't know about that; you have a tendency to tell people things which could unintentionally seem rude to them, like when you PM'ed me saying "Ya'll [Pakistani-s] name your missiles after the dudes that killed millions of your peeps? Lmao." Just kidding, .
    படைபோர் புக்கு முழங்கும்அப் பாஞ்சசன்னியமும் பல்லாண்டே
    May your pA~nchajanya shankha which reverberates on the battlefield, last thousands upon thousands of years...
    http://archives.mirroroftomorrow.org...anchajanya.jpg

  4. #14

    Re: Dear ISKCONITES & Hare Krishna-s

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaskaran Singh View Post

    It's not necessarily insulting, but it can be interpreted as slightly hostile. This is the definition of the phrase "get along" as per "thefreedictionary.com":

    "get along (with somebody) (spoken)
    to have a good relationship ex. My kids and their cousins really get along with each other.
    See also: along, get"

    Clearly, "don't get along" would be be the negation of that, and could hence be interpreted as "we don't have a good relationship."
    Hey dude...my siblings and I don't get along...but we still love each other, 'cause we're family. Likewise with Hinduism - a family of many.

    Hmm, I don't know about that; you have a tendency to tell people things which could unintentionally seem rude to them, like when you PM'ed me saying "Ya'll [Pakistani-s] name your missiles after the dudes that killed millions of your peeps? Lmao." Just kidding, .
    Hey now, that was a valid question, cause it would be kinda like IDF naming their new jet fighter, "the Light of the Waffen SS" - which would be just plain ironic, don't chya think?
    Last edited by Sudas Paijavana; 12 January 2014 at 03:12 AM.

  5. #15
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    Re: Dear ISKCONITES & Hare Krishna-s

    Hare Krsna,

    And on a side note... not meaning to derail the remarkable Hindu quality of debate... I love ISKCON Cow Protection efforts too!
    May all the poor cows be protected from harm in this world, and may this world come to appreciate and love our go-matajis!~

    All glories to Mother Cow! Gau Mata ki jai!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP4ffU3OFkU

    uttama hañā vaiṣṇava habe nirabhimāna
    jīve sammāna dibe jāni' 'kṛṣṇa'-adhiṣṭhāna

    "Although a Vaiṣṇava is a most exalted person, he is prideless and gives
    all respect to everyone, knowing everyone to be the resting place of Kṛṣṇa."
    -Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Antya 20.25

  6. #16

    Re: Dear ISKCONITES & Hare Krishna-s

    Quote Originally Posted by Devi Dasi View Post
    I love ISKCON Cow Protection efforts too!
    May all the poor cows be protected from harm in this world, and may this world come to appreciate and love our go-matajis!~

    All glories to Mother Cow! Gau Mata ki jai!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP4ffU3OFkU

    A Myriad Highest-Pranam-s,

    Jai Shri Go-Mātā! Go-Mātā Ki Jai!

    Long live the cow-protection centers that put in selfless efforts to help She who was brought forth through Shri Devi Ushā's coming!
    Last edited by Sudas Paijavana; 11 January 2014 at 10:28 PM.

  7. #17
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    Re: Dear ISKCONITES & Hare Krishna-s

    Quote Originally Posted by Sudas Paijavana View Post
    Hey now, that was a valid question, cause it would be kinda like IDF naming their new jet fighter, "the Light of the Waffen SS" - which would be just plain ironic, don't chya think?
    praNAm,
    To put it simply, the ISI chose to name it the ghaurI missile because Indians named one of their missiles pR^ithvI. They didn't know that India named the missile after one of bhUmidevI's epithets (pR^ithvImAtA is pretty much the earth goddess mentioned multiple times in the atharvaveda), but instead they thought it was named it after pR^ithvIrAj chauhan. This was because of the wars fought between ghaurI and chauhan; ghaurI lost against pR^ithvIrAj the first 15 (or was it 16?) times and was forgiven; on the last time, he won the war and did not show any sympathy, eventually tearing chauhan's eye out and swallowing it. I think the ISI was trying to say that even though they lost the war in 1965, 1971, and the Kargil war, they would eventually win and not show any sympathy to the Indians. They probably did not know that the ancestors of many present day "Pakistani-s" were killed by ghaurI or just didn't care (just like how many pAkistAnis praise ibn qasim's conquest of sindh/victory over rAjA dahir despite the fact that many Hindus and Buddhists that inhabited the area, and were probably the ancestors of many Pakistanis, were murdered by his soldiers). Still, the question is a bit of a generalization, because:
    1) I don't live in pAkistAn anymore and am hence not a Pakistani citizen anymore and I don't like the Pakistani government.
    2) Most pAkistAnis (around 56%) are illiterate paiNDu-s who don't even know that a country called India exists.
    3) The majority of the remaining 44% doesn't care.
    4) The pAkistAni people only elect people into political offices (even then, somewhat indirectly, as it is a republic, not a strict democracy); they're not the one's making every decision, certainly not naming the missiles.
    5) I don't really care about what Pakistan calls it's missiles. What's more important to me is the fact that the "liberals" in Pakistan are no better than the conservatives. One example is that "liberal" bi*** Benazir Bhutto, who encouraged the mujahideen SCUMBAGs to become more violent and to attack the kashmirI paNDits, killing many and forcing many others into exile; during that period, she compared the action to those of that idiot Umar [one of the pedo-nabi's sahabah who ordered the massacre most of the remaining Mushrikun and Jews in Arabia, and many of the Sassanian Zoroastrians and Byzantine Romans (who followed Eastern Orthodox Christianity)]. Bhutto's death is the only act of terror by the Taliban that I approve of, even if it was for the wrong reason (because she was a female). In my opinion, no supporter/instigator of genocide should ever be a leader of a country; I don't care if they're female or liberal. It was funny watching how that radical socialist fat jerk Tarek Fatah was trying to defend her just becaue she was a liberal. I'm actually glad that Nawaz Sharif became prime minister in the last election; even though he's right-wing; he's much better than that Marxist Ameen Faheem (who comes from the People's Party, which is chaired by Bilawal Zardari, son of the aforementioned genocidal bi***) and the Pashtun Nationalist Imran Khan (who is a fan of the Taliban). Oh, and did I also mention that Bilawal is a womanizer and a drunkard (see here and here)?
    BTW, sorry for using a curse word, especially on this forum (one of the forum rules is to treat is as if I were in a mandir, and I would never use that word in a mandir, or ever in public or around a family member); however, "bit**" is a nice way of describing an individual like Benazir (regardless of the fact that her husband isn't as bad), see here.
    Also, see the following (it's really long, but unfortunately, there's no spoiler tag, although I bolded the parts I think are important, the funniest part is when she talks about the "moral superiority" of creating a bomb meant for destruction, ). I assume Muslims live in opposite land (how can a nuclear bomb display morality?); therefore, Islam must indeed be a religion of "peace" by their standard. Either that, or perhaps she meant that nuclear bombs increase mortality, but instead used the wrong word:
    Quote Originally Posted by Francois Gautier on his website
    When Benazir Bhutto died in December 2007, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh described her as “one of the outstanding leaders of our sub-continent, who always looked for reconciliation between India and Pakistan.” Most magazines did cover stories on her and Benazir Bhutto became a “martyr of democracy”.
    It is a sad that a mother of three children was so brutally killed and we all mouredn her terrible death. Nevertheless, truth must be told. For, as usual, what the press says is not exactly what happened. Firstly, under Bhutto, anti-Indian terrorism in the Kashmir region was fostered and increased. Benazir was also directly responsible for the ethnic cleansing of Hindus in Kashmir. "She was instrumental in sponsoring jihad, openly inciting militants to intensify terrorism in India," says Ajai Sahni, the executive director of the New Delhi-based Institute for Conflict Management. "I find it very difficult to discover a single element with her relationship to India that is positive and for the betterment of her country or the region", he adds. Remember how she was shouting her slogans of azaadi, and exhorting the people of Kashmir to cut Jagmohan, then governor of the state, into pieces, as in "jag-jag, mo-mo, han-han". She would say this while making chopping motions with her right hand as it moved from her left wrist to the elbow, leaving nobody in any doubt as to what she meant.
    Secondly, under Benazir Bhutto, the Taliban formed and, helped by Pakistan's intelligence service, swept across Afghanistan and later hosted Osama bin Laden. It is a bit of an irony that she may have been killed by the very people she helped foster if at all she was murdered.
    Thirdly, she deliberately increased tension levels and then threatened India with a pre-emptive nuclear strike.
    The tension peaked when Benazir repeated her late father's immortal boast of waging a thousand-year war against India and even Rajiv Gandhi was forced to mock her in Parliament, asking if those who talked of a thousand-year war could last even a thousand hours.
    And fourthly, in her last speech before she died, she alluded to India as one of the threats Pakistan had to face, implying that if she was elected she would deal firmly with it. Then why is it that Prime Minister Manmohan Singh called her a friend of India and that Indians still remember affectionately ?
    I interviewed Benazir Bhutto twice, the last one as she was campaigning to be re-elected for a second term.
    The first question I asked, was about Kashmir, as she was the one who had called for ‘Azad Kashmir’, a Kashmir free from India, which had triggered the ethnic cleansing of most Hindus of the Valley of Kashmir, 400.000 of them having to flee their ancestral land.
    You know, she answered, you have to understand the Pakistani point of view on Kashmir. If one goes by the logic of Partition, then at least the Kashmir valley, which is in great majority Muslim - and it should be emphasised that for long the Hindus Pandits in Kashmir exploited and dominated the Muslims, who are getting back at them today - should have reverted to Pakistan. But let us say that officially we want to help grant Kashmiris their right to self-determination
    That’s the only reason, I continued ?
    No, answered Benazir, it should be clear also that Pakistan never forgot the humiliating loss of Bangladesh at the hands of India, although India claims it only helped Bangladesh to gain its freedom in the face of what the Bangladeshis say was Pakistani genocide. Zia's emergence was a result of that humiliation.
    But Zia hanged your father, I interrupted...
    Yes and I hate him, and God the Almighty already punished him for that, said Benazir (alluding to Zia’s death in a plane crash). But Zia did one thing right, he started the whole policy of proxy war by supporting the separatist movements in Punjab and Kashmir, as a way of getting back at India.
    What about Pakistan’ nuclear bomb, I asked?
    That’s my father’s work she said proudly. He realized, after having lost the 1965 and 1971wars with India, that both numerically and strategically, we can never beat India in a conventional conflict. Thus he initiated the programme by saying that “we will get the nuclear bomb, even if we have to eat grass”.
    But is it not a dangerous weapon if it falls in the hands of the fundamentalists of your country, I asked?
    No such danger, Benazir answered. Anyway, it is not only a deterrent against India's military conventional superiority and an answer to India's own nuclear capability, but also the ultimate weapon to reassert Islam's moral superiority.
    We in Europe have united in a Common Market, why don’t Pakistan and India forget their differences and form some kind of confederation with other South Asia countries, instead of killing each other?
    Pakistan and India were never one country, answered the imperious lady. They were only kept together by force, whether by Mauryan, Moghul or British rule. Hindus have recognised the reality of Islam, and we needed our own country to feel free.
    I was flabbergasted: here was a lady educated in Oxford and Harvard, who mouthed such irrational statements. She spoke good English, was pretty, articulate and appealed to the Press. But when in power, she had to resort to anti -Indianism to please her voters, her husband, now President of Pakistan, was known as Mr 10%, and she was hounded out of power twice for incompetence and corruption. Is she then a martyr of democracy ? History will tell. But today we see that her niece, Fatima Bhutto, as pretty as Benazir was, is the toast of the Indian Media, every time she comes to the Literary Festival of Jaipur, to sell her books! If one day Fatima becomes PM,as Pakistan have also their favorite dynasty, for sure, she will tread in her aunt's footprints, for the only way to please the Pakistani voters, is to called for Azad Kashmir...
    Edit: Also, don't think for a second that Christians are not closer to their fellow Abrahamic brothers (Muslims); case in point -- more often than not, the same radical liberal westerners from the Guardian Newspaper and Huffington Post who like anti-Hindu traitors like arundhatI roy (who was awarded the man booker prize by the British), mR^idu rai, and Aditya sinha (all of whom support kashmIrI separatists/terrorists) would decry the an'nAkba of the Palestinians after Israeli occupation. Oh the irony! Welp, if those fraud guru-s that think we're out of kaliyuga are indeed correct, then I would hate to see what the actual kaliyuga would be like :rollseyes:...

    oM namo ve~NkaTeshAya
    Last edited by Jaskaran Singh; 12 January 2014 at 02:35 AM. Reason: typo
    படைபோர் புக்கு முழங்கும்அப் பாஞ்சசன்னியமும் பல்லாண்டே
    May your pA~nchajanya shankha which reverberates on the battlefield, last thousands upon thousands of years...
    http://archives.mirroroftomorrow.org...anchajanya.jpg

  8. #18

    Re: Dear ISKCONITES & Hare Krishna-s

    Jaskaran,

    May you be kind as to empty a part of your inbox so I may be able to send you a PM? If so, thank you.

    EDITED for jokes and kicks:

    So I was going through a handful of articles that I bookmarked a few years ago and came across this gem: Click Me.

    For many practitioners, including Debbie Desmond, 27, a yoga instructor in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, the talk of branding and ownership is bewildering.

    “Nobody owns yoga,” she said, sitting cross-legged in her studio, Namaste Yoga, and tilting her head as if the notion sketched an impossible yoga position she had never seen. “Yoga is not a religion. It is a way of life, a method of becoming. We were taught that the roots of yoga go back further than Hinduism itself.”

    Like Dr. Chopra and some religious historians, Ms. Desmond believes that yoga originated in the Vedic culture of Indo-Europeans who settled in India in the third millennium B.C., long before the tradition now called Hinduism emerged. Other historians trace the first written description of yoga to the Bhagavad Gita, the sacred Hindu scripture believed to have been written between the fifth and second centuries B.C.

    Um. The Vrātyā-s were not seen in the brightest of light by the Vedic "Indo-European" Rishis, Ms. Desmond and Dr. Chopra. In fact, even though "yoga" is of the astika (which automatically makes it "Hindu", BTW), it is far from being "Vedic". The day that yoga, which was anti-Yajna, becomes "Vedic" (i.e., pro-Yajna)...is the day that I'll convert to Islam. We can start taking bets now. Who's in? Only million-dollars bets, please.
    Last edited by Sudas Paijavana; 12 January 2014 at 02:05 AM.

  9. #19

    Re: Dear ISKCONITES & Hare Krishna-s

    Namaste,
    Quote Originally Posted by Sudas Paijavana View Post
    Jaskaran,

    May you be kind as to empty a part of your inbox so I may be able to send you a PM? If so, thank you.

    EDITED for jokes and kicks:

    So I was going through a handful of articles that I bookmarked a few years ago and came across this gem: Click Me.


    Um. The Vrātyā-s were not seen in the brightest of light by the Vedic "Indo-European" Rishis, Ms. Desmond and Dr. Chopra. In fact, even though "yoga" is of the astika (which automatically makes it "Hindu", BTW), it is far from being "Vedic". The day that yoga, which was anti-Yajna, becomes "Vedic" (i.e., pro-Yajna)...is the day that I'll convert to Islam. We can start taking bets now. Who's in? Only million-dollars bets, please.
    Well,Yoga evolved from Tapas,or severe austerity practiced during the Vedic era.We can call it as "proto-Yoga"

    This is an enlightening book :http://books.google.co.in/books?id=J...ed=0CCoQ6AEwAA
    "Only one is the fire,which is inflamed in numerous ways.Only one is the sun, which pervades the whole universe.Only one is the dawn,which illuminates all things. Similarly,all that exists is The One and it has manifested into everything here.”

    ~ Rg Veda 8.58.2

  10. #20

    Re: Dear ISKCONITES & Hare Krishna-s

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryavartian View Post
    Namaste,


    Well,Yoga evolved from Tapas,or severe austerity practiced during the Vedic era.We can call it as "proto-Yoga"

    This is an enlightening book :http://books.google.co.in/books?id=J...ed=0CCoQ6AEwAA
    Hello,

    I believe I am being misunderstood. I'm simply using the logic and reasoning of both Ms. Desmond and Dr. Chopra. I was countering their misappropriation of both "Vedicism" and "yoga" as "Indo-European" by stating that the very logic that they are using would nullify "yoga" as "Indo-European", because the mere Western-application of "Indo-Euorpean" semantical digressions in trying to "prove" "yoga's" "non-Hindu" origins would conclude in the end a false correlation. Since they take on a "historical" stance, I did the same with my statement above. In other words: the "mendicant" practitioners of Yoga (even though they were of the astika) were not "Vedicists" or yajvano-s. In fact, using their own paradigm, it is easier to argue that Yoga in its initial stages was a movement away from the "staunch ritualism" (as Western Indologists put it) of "Vedicism". So while Yoga definitely had "origins" in "Vedic" India...it is not "Vedic", as per the re-applied logic one may utilize in abiding by the paradigm of both Ms. Desmond and Dr. Chopra. In simpler terms: 'dey be preachin' horse manure, ya feel me, dawg?

    EDITED: A thought that always confuses me: why are various Indic notions & things always applied the designation of "Indo-European" when it is not necessary nor historically and theologically warranted? For example...if someone were to say that "Yoga" is "Indo-European" and not "Indian"/"Indic"...that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It would be like me saying that the Spartans of Ancient Greece weren't Greek, but only "Indo-Europeans". Next thing you know...going by this logic..."Ahmedabad and Mumbai" aren't "Indian"...but "Indo-European".

    More EDITING: Check this out - click me ya'll.

    Yet aside from “om” and the occasional “namaste,” Americans rarely acknowledge that yoga is, at its foundation, an ancient Hindu religious practice, the goal of which is to achieve spiritual liberation by joining one’s soul to the essence of the divine.

    ...which makes it of the astika - and by default: "Hindu". Even though Lisa Miller, the author of this article, is not a Hindu...I wouldn't be surprised if Deepak has already straw-manned her, like he did with Aseem Shukla, with the usual 'oh - stop being such a Hindutva-vAdin'.
    Last edited by Sudas Paijavana; 12 January 2014 at 02:36 AM.

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