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Thread: Why Is Shrī Agni Called "Agni Vaishvānara"?

  1. #21
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    Re: Why Is Shrī Agni Called "Agni Vaishvānara"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryavartian View Post
    Namaste Avyaydya,

    By symbolic,i meant pratima(substitute figure) of the victim made of of grains would be used instead of actual animal.You can see the verses of Satapatha Brahmana from 1.2.3.5-8 which explains the use of grain cakes instead of actual animals.

    The pratima purodasha or grain cake looks like this(shown in the OP):

    <content snipped>

    Anyway,i am not denying actual animal sacrifices,just showing a possibility
    Namaste,

    What I feel is that we will have to read the whole chapter to understand the context. What I feel is that there is a gradual, conscious effort to move from killing actual animal to his pratimA, and then in Jnana Kand, the ritual itself is dropped.

    It is interesting to see it is BrAhmaNa. Adi Shankara quoted BrAhmaNa-s so they may contain deep meaning when all dots are joined.

    Since I have not studied samhitA-s and BrAhmaNa-s, I cannot comment much on it. It is a general observation that there is gradual conscious step-by-step effort to lift one spiritually.

    Hari OM
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  2. #22

    Re: Why Is Shrī Agni Called "Agni Vaishvānara"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality Amrut View Post
    Namaste,

    What I feel is that we will have to read the whole chapter to understand the context. What I feel is that there is a gradual, conscious effort to move from killing actual animal to his pratimA, and then in Jnana Kand, the ritual itself is dropped.
    I don't think the ritual is dropped in jnana kanda,but it "mystifies" it Anyway,i personally think the ritual should be a mix of both janana and karma kandas i.e while offering external Yajnas,we must also hold a spiritual,internal aspect of it.
    "Only one is the fire,which is inflamed in numerous ways.Only one is the sun, which pervades the whole universe.Only one is the dawn,which illuminates all things. Similarly,all that exists is The One and it has manifested into everything here.”

    ~ Rg Veda 8.58.2

  3. #23
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    Re: Why Is Shrī Agni Called "Agni Vaishvānara"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryavartian View Post
    I don't think the ritual is dropped in jnana kanda,but it "mystifies" it Anyway,i personally think the ritual should be a mix of both janana and karma kandas i.e while offering external Yajnas,we must also hold a spiritual,internal aspect of it.
    Every act can be a yajna, an offering to God, but vedic karma kand has benefits.

    1. It keeps the tradition alive.
    2. It helps deva-s and in return they bless us.
    3. Vibrations of mantra-s clean nadi-s of not only the one who is chanting, but all those who can hear it. Admittedly the one who is chanting can gain maximum benefit, but others present can also gain benefit. This covers even plant kingdom.

    Appayya Dikshita was a vedic karma kandi. When he performed a vedic animal (paSU) sacrific, he prayed to the Lord to make it count that this is not mere killing of an animal. The entire havan kund rose high in the air, thereby justifiying vedic rituals and a heavenly chariot came to receive the soul of animal offered to deva-s says Kanchi Paramachrya

    Hari OM
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  4. #24

    Re: Why Is Shrī Agni Called "Agni Vaishvānara"?

    Namaste Amrut,

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality Amrut View Post

    1. It keeps the tradition alive.
    I personally think this is the best part,preserving traditions is a must.All great cultures like Greek,Egypt,Rome,Mesopotamia,Persia etc have been wiped out by you-know-who.Only our Vedic tradition survives.Although,i fear it would soon be wiped out as well.There are very few Srauta Brahmins who can perform the ancient rituals properly,i hope they can keep up the tradition through their future generations.

    I believe India is really in need of a Pushyamitra Shunga.Pushyamitra overthrew the Nastika,anti-ritualistic Mauryan regime and re-established the Vedic ritualism by performing Ashvamedha.He also stopped Yavanas from conquering Aryavarta any further.

    Anyway,on a side note,i read somewhere that most Atiratra Somayajnas bought rain in the midst of summer.
    "Only one is the fire,which is inflamed in numerous ways.Only one is the sun, which pervades the whole universe.Only one is the dawn,which illuminates all things. Similarly,all that exists is The One and it has manifested into everything here.”

    ~ Rg Veda 8.58.2

  5. #25
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    Re: Why Is Shrī Agni Called "Agni Vaishvānara"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryavartian View Post
    Namaste Amrut,



    I personally think this is the best part,preserving traditions is a must.All great cultures like Greek,Egypt,Rome,Mesopotamia,Persia etc have been wiped out by you-know-who.Only our Vedic tradition survives.Although,i fear it would soon be wiped out as well.There are very few Srauta Brahmins who can perform the ancient rituals properly,i hope they can keep up the tradition through their future generations.

    I believe India is really in need of a Pushyamitra Shunga.Pushyamitra overthrew the Nastika,anti-ritualistic Mauryan regime and re-established the Vedic ritualism by performing Ashvamedha.He also stopped Yavanas from conquering Aryavarta any further.

    Anyway,on a side note,i read somewhere that most Atiratra Somayajnas bought rain in the midst of summer.
    Namaste Aryavartian,

    I whole heartedly agree and pray for the same.

    Shankaracharya matha-s are making every effort they can to keep the tradition alive.

    During those days, the vedic priest performing yajna was so strong and purified that deva-s would answer his prayers and shower rain.

    Hari OM
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  6. #26

    Re: Why Is Shrī Agni Called "Agni Vaishvānara"?

    Namaste Amrut,


    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality Amrut View Post

    Shankaracharya matha-s are making every effort they can to keep the tradition alive.


    Of course,Shankara Mathas propagate Advaita,which is also part of Dharmic/Vedic tradition,but do they perform Srauta rituals?
    "Only one is the fire,which is inflamed in numerous ways.Only one is the sun, which pervades the whole universe.Only one is the dawn,which illuminates all things. Similarly,all that exists is The One and it has manifested into everything here.”

    ~ Rg Veda 8.58.2

  7. #27
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    Re: Why Is Shrī Agni Called "Agni Vaishvānara"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryavartian View Post
    Namaste Amrut,

    Of course,Shankara Mathas propagate Advaita,which is also part of Dharmic/Vedic tradition,but do they perform Srauta rituals?
    Namaste Aryavartian

    A BIG Yes.

    They also maintain temples. Not all can practice advaita. Temples are for all. Vedic karma kand is to be preserved.

    Shankaracharya maths and other independent mathas like that of Sri Ramesh bhai Oza (a Brahmin scholar) have set up veda pAThaSALA-s. They have a 12 year course that teaches all including Agama-s. Later some bright students also take up veda-bhashya by SAyanAcArya, which is considered as authentic. It takes another 6 years to master them to some extent.

    MimAmsaka-s may stay mimAmsaka-s. They do not need to enter into advaita (monasticism) after completing the course and can independently practice own their own. They are free to 'settle down' i.e. marry and lead a pious family life.

    Upanishads are taught, but it is on intellectual level. If a student wishes, he can shift to advaita under the guidance of Jagadguru.

    I have also heard that they also give scholarships. They also help search good student for a knowledgeable acharya, eventhough he do not wish to work under Shankaracharya math and when he performs any yajna, other acharya-s (and may be students) from math wholeheartedly join him.

    P.S. I am talking about Kanchi and Shringeri Math. Other matha-s also make efforts, but I do not have much info.

    Good night

    Hari OM
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  8. #28

    Re: Why Is Shrī Agni Called "Agni Vaishvānara"?

    Namaste Amrut,

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality Amrut View Post
    A BIG Yes.

    They also maintain temples. Not all can practice advaita. Temples are for all. Vedic karma kand is to be preserved.

    Shankaracharya maths and other independent mathas like that of Sri Ramesh bhai Oza (a Brahmin scholar) have set up veda pAThaSALA-s. They have a 12 year course that teaches all including Agama-s. Later some bright students also take up veda-bhashya by SAyanAcArya, which is considered as authentic. It takes another 6 years to master them to some extent.

    MimAmsaka-s may stay mimAmsaka-s. They do not need to enter into advaita (monasticism) after completing the course and can independently practice own their own. They are free to 'settle down' i.e. marry and lead a pious family life.

    Upanishads are taught, but it is on intellectual level. If a student wishes, he can shift to advaita under the guidance of Jagadguru.

    I have also heard that they also give scholarships. They also help search good student for a knowledgeable acharya, eventhough he do not wish to work under Shankaracharya math and when he performs any yajna, other acharya-s (and may be students) from math wholeheartedly join him.

    P.S. I am talking about Kanchi and Shringeri Math. Other matha-s also make efforts, but I do not have much info.

    Good night

    Hari OM

    Thanks for clarifying,good to know they preserve our Karma Kanda traditions at the same time they preserve Jnana Kanda!
    "Only one is the fire,which is inflamed in numerous ways.Only one is the sun, which pervades the whole universe.Only one is the dawn,which illuminates all things. Similarly,all that exists is The One and it has manifested into everything here.”

    ~ Rg Veda 8.58.2

  9. #29
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    Re: Why Is Shrī Agni Called "Agni Vaishvānara"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiaspirituality Amrut View Post
    Shankaracharya maths and other independent mathas like that of Sri Ramesh bhai Oza (a Brahmin scholar) have set up veda pAThaSALA-s. They have a 12 year course that teaches all including Agama-s. Later some bright students also take up veda-bhashya by SAyanAcArya, which is considered as authentic. It takes another 6 years to master them to some extent.
    He has a pretty voice, : https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=tPw3A1k6N58
    படைபோர் புக்கு முழங்கும்அப் பாஞ்சசன்னியமும் பல்லாண்டே
    May your pA~nchajanya shankha which reverberates on the battlefield, last thousands upon thousands of years...
    http://archives.mirroroftomorrow.org...anchajanya.jpg

  10. #30

    Re: Why Is Shrī Agni Called "Agni Vaishvānara"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryavartian View Post
    Namaste Avyaydya,



    By symbolic,i meant pratima(substitute figure) of the victim made of of grains would be used instead of actual animal.You can see the verses of Satapatha Brahmana from 1.2.3.5-8 which explains the use of grain cakes instead of actual animals.

    The pratima purodasha or grain cake looks like this(shown in the OP):




    When it is roasted/baked,it will become hard,much like a terracotta figure.We can then deal it with as if we are dealing with an actual animal.

    Many other Brahmanas like Taittiriya,Aitareya,Panchavimsha etc also makes mention of this "cake animal".

    Anyway,i am not denying actual animal sacrifices,just showing a possibility
    I think this is unlikely as it describes parts and internals of the body.

    5. 5 After it has been killed, he silently 'strengthens' its sense-organs (by touching them) with water, and silently takes out the omentum, the heart, and the kidneys.
    6. With the Vapsrapan of Udumbara wood he roasts the omentum; with spits of Udumbara wood the other (parts mentioned in Stra 5) separately.
    7. After he has roasted them, and has sprinkled gya over them, and has taken them from the fire, he sprinkles water round (the fire) from right to left, puts a piece of Udumbara wood on (the fire), and sacrifices with a Darvi spoon of Udumbara wood the omentum, spreading under and sprinkling over it (gya), with (the verse), 'Carry the omentum, Gtavedas, to the Fathers, where thou knowest them resting afar. May streams of fat flow to them; may their wishes with all their desires be fulfilled. Svadh! Adoration!'
    8. 8 He sacrifices the omentum entirely. The other parts (Stra 5) he should offer to the Brhmanas and should feed them (with those parts of the cow).
    Do you believe that the momentum, heart, kidneys are symbolic? And what about the "Darvi spoon of Udumbara wood"?

    Personally I would expect instructions how to create such symbolic animal as it would likely be surrounded with rituals to prepare it.

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