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Thread: Roots of Shakti.

  1. #1

    Roots of Shakti.

    Namaste everyone,we know that Vaishnavism and Shaivism have its origins in Vedic corpus but what about Shaktism?Did the worship of Shakti exist during the Vedic era?Out of the three important Goddesses of Shaktism i.e Lakshmi,Sarasvati and Parvati,two are mentioned in Vedic corpus i.e Sarasvati and Lakshmi(aka Sri).Sri is also mentioned in early Buddhist and Jaina texts.But i could not find the mention of Parvati(Shakti herself) in Vedic corpus.AFAIK she is only mentioned once in Kena Upanishad.Could someone tell me if she is mentioned in any of the Vedic era texts?I think Goddess Kali(Avatara of Parvati) is mentioned in Vedic texts,as Nirrti.Nirrti is Goddess of death and destruction(correct me if i'm wrong) and have dark color similar to Kali.Could she be the prototype of Kali/Shakti/Parvati?

    Best regards,
    A.
    "Only one is the fire,which is inflamed in numerous ways.Only one is the sun, which pervades the whole universe.Only one is the dawn,which illuminates all things. Similarly,all that exists is The One and it has manifested into everything here.”

    ~ Rg Veda 8.58.2

  2. #2

    Re: Roots of Shakti.

    Pranam

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryavartian View Post
    Namaste everyone,we know that Vaishnavism and Shaivism have its origins in Vedic corpus but what about Shaktism?Did the worship of Shakti exist during the Vedic era?Out of the three important Goddesses of Shaktism i.e Lakshmi,Sarasvati and Parvati,two are mentioned in Vedic corpus i.e Sarasvati and Lakshmi(aka Sri).Sri is also mentioned in early Buddhist and Jaina texts.But i could not find the mention of Parvati(Shakti herself) in Vedic corpus.AFAIK she is only mentioned once in Kena Upanishad.Could someone tell me if she is mentioned in any of the Vedic era texts?I think Goddess Kali(Avatara of Parvati) is mentioned in Vedic texts,as Nirrti.Nirrti is Goddess of death and destruction(correct me if i'm wrong) and have dark color similar to Kali.Could she be the prototype of Kali/Shakti/Parvati?

    Best regards,
    A.
    I am not sure what you mean by 'Vedic corpus'. Goddess shri is absent in vedas .

    Nirrti is mentioned , but she is not a goddess . She is an abstract personification of malicious things , and as such she is not to be worshiped but avoided. There is not a single ric/sukta in praise of nirrti . The goddess durga/kali is not mentioned in vedas
    Last edited by Alter ego; 15 January 2014 at 11:58 PM.

  3. #3
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    Re: Roots of Shakti.

    Namaste,

    Excerpt from Atharva Veda on Mother Goddess :

    4.30.1-9 These verses glorify the Mother Goddess.

    Some excerpts :
    “I move in the eleven Rudras and eight Vasus, the twelve Adityas and Vishvedeva. I am BrahmanvAdini (the revealer of the Brahman) and ParBrahmanAtmika (the Self one with Brahman). I nourish the MitrAvaruNa and support the IndrAgni and Ashvidvaya. I am BrahmAntikA and am the ruler of the whole manifest universe. I have realised Brahman. I am Self alone in other form. I alone preach Indra and other gods and the men the knowledge of Brahman. Whoever eats, eats through me. All works like seeing, hearing, breathing etc. are done through me alone. I pervade all as the inner dweller. .... The VidhAtA (BrahmA) who lives in satya loka is born through me. I am the cause of this universe and I am the Brahman Consciousness too. I am the fire (BaRwAnal) in the ocean and the teja in the electricity is mine alone. Without taking help from anyone, I, creating the beings act as the wind.”

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  4. #4

    Re: Roots of Shakti.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alter ego View Post
    I am not sure what you mean by 'Vedic corpus'. Goddess shri is absent in vedas .
    Please say that again?
    Then what is Shri Sukta ? It is in the Ṛg Ved. Where there is Purusha there is His Shri. Where there is Nārāyaṇ, Vishṇu there is His Beloved Shri. His dazzle. His sparkle. His glamour ...
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  5. #5

    Re: Roots of Shakti.

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Namaste,

    Excerpt from Atharva Veda on Mother Goddess :

    4.30.1-9 These verses glorify the Mother Goddess.

    Some excerpts :
    “I move in the eleven Rudras and eight Vasus, the twelve Adityas and Vishvedeva. I am BrahmanvAdini (the revealer of the Brahman) and ParBrahmanAtmika (the Self one with Brahman). I nourish the MitrAvaruNa and support the IndrAgni and Ashvidvaya. I am BrahmAntikA and am the ruler of the whole manifest universe. I have realised Brahman. I am Self alone in other form. I alone preach Indra and other gods and the men the knowledge of Brahman. Whoever eats, eats through me. All works like seeing, hearing, breathing etc. are done through me alone. I pervade all as the inner dweller. .... The VidhAtA (BrahmA) who lives in satya loka is born through me. I am the cause of this universe and I am the Brahman Consciousness too. I am the fire (BaRwAnal) in the ocean and the teja in the electricity is mine alone. Without taking help from anyone, I, creating the beings act as the wind.”

    OM
    Namaste ,

    The verse is addressed to vac(Goddess of speech)

    This is the original--

    http://is1.mum.edu/vedicreserve/atha...harva_veda.pdf

    Cant find the words brahmavadini and parabrahmatmika in original Sanskrit verse
    Last edited by Alter ego; 16 January 2014 at 01:05 AM.

  6. #6

    Re: Roots of Shakti.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alter ego View Post

    Nirrti is mentioned , but she is not a goddess . She is an abstract personification of malicious things , and as such she is not to be worshiped but avoided. There is not a single ric/sukta in praise of nirrti . The goddess durga/kali is not mentioned in vedas
    Namaste,

    Apparently, in the Shri Atharva-Veda, NirRti is described as having "golden locks" - the ["malicious"] one with blond hair (A.V.5.7.9 ?). In the Shri Rg-Veda, there are a few Rca-s that stress a notion that the agnitra seeks protection from her, that she is to be driven away for she brings with her mystical, spiritual, and physical pain or agony; and, if she approaches the yajna, inauspiciousness is brought forth and subsequently the yajna is thus voided (R.V.10.59). While Shri Rudra, a few times invoked in the Veda-s as the God of Gods, is eulogized as "nir-Rta" ("uncontrollable", "lawless", "unconquerable"), NirRti, on the other hand, is maligned as "nir-Rti" - and in the latter sense, this is implying "without order", "one who does not hold to the Rta [or the order of things] nor the yajna-dharma", rather than the praise of "uncontrollable" eulogizing Shri Rudra, the "howler" - he that dispenses those that come to destroy the yajna-dharma.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryavartian View Post
    Namaste everyone,we know that Vaishnavism and Shaivism have its origins in Vedic corpus but what about Shaktism?
    Namaste,

    I guess today's notions of "Shaktism" can arbitrarily be posited as "proto-Shaktism" when it comes to finding it within the Vedic corpus (I presume you are talking about the Veda-s, BrAhmaNa-s, ĀraNyaka-s, & the Upanishad-s). While a full blown "Shaktic" theology is not vehemently vivid, it's also not as vapid as previously believed. In fact, Shri Devi Aditi is, often numerously, described as the Universal Mother, the Mother of the Shri Gods. This is pretty much as "Shaktic" as one can get. More importantly, numerous Rca-s extolling Shri Devi Aditi can be found even in the Shri Rig Veda -- an important Hindu scripture often previously [and probably still] held as being man-centric -- dispelling past notions of "a scripture written entirely by men", which is observably incorrect since many Rishikā-s are listed in the anukramani-s.

    Unbeknownst to many Hindus, Shri Devi Ushā, another important Hindu Goddess, is the only Shri God that is invoked with "satya-mantra" - or "true prayer".

    "They indeed were Comrades of the Gods, Possessed of Truth, the Poets of Old: the Fathers found the Hidden Light and with True Prayer brought forth the Dawn (Shri Devi Ushā)." (R.V.7.76.4)

    Whereas other Deva-s and Devi-s are "brought forth" through mantra-s, Shri Devi Ushā, on the other hand, is "brought forth" with "true prayer". In other words, she's heck-a-lot important.

  7. #7

    Re: Roots of Shakti.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sudas Paijavana View Post
    Namaste,

    Apparently, in the Shri Atharva-Veda, NirRti is described as having "golden locks" - the ["malicious"] one with blond hair (A.V.5.7.9 ?). In the Shri Rg-Veda, there are a few Rca-s that stress a notion that the agnitra seeks protection from her, that she is to be driven away for she brings with her mystical, spiritual, and physical pain or agony; and, if she approaches the yajna, inauspiciousness is brought forth and subsequently the yajna is thus voided (R.V.10.59). While Shri Rudra, a few times invoked in the Veda-s as the God of Gods, is eulogized as "nir-Rta" ("uncontrollable", "lawless", "unconquerable"), NirRti, on the other hand, is maligned as "nir-Rti" - and in the latter sense, this is implying "without order", "one who does not hold to the Rta [or the order of things] nor the yajna-dharma", rather than the praise of "uncontrollable" eulogizing Shri Rudra, the "howler" - he that dispenses those that come to destroy the yajna-dharma.



    Namaste,

    I guess today's notions of "Shaktism" can arbitrarily be posited as "proto-Shaktism" when it comes to finding it within the Vedic corpus (I presume you are talking about the Veda-s, BrAhmaNa-s, ĀraNyaka-s, & the Upanishad-s). While a full blown "Shaktic" theology is not vehemently vivid, it's also not as vapid as previously believed. In fact, Shri Devi Aditi is, often numerously, described as the Universal Mother, the Mother of the Shri Gods. This is pretty much as "Shaktic" as one can get. More importantly, numerous Rca-s extolling Shri Devi Aditi can be found even in the Shri Rig Veda -- an important Hindu scripture often previously [and probably still] held as being man-centric -- dispelling past notions of "a scripture written entirely by men", which is observably incorrect since many Rishikā-s are listed in the anukramani-s.

    Unbeknownst to many Hindus, Shri Devi Ushā, another important Hindu Goddess, is the only Shri God that is invoked with "satya-mantra" - or "true prayer".

    "They indeed were Comrades of the Gods, Possessed of Truth, the Poets of Old: the Fathers found the Hidden Light and with True Prayer brought forth the Dawn (Shri Devi Ushā)." (R.V.7.76.4)
    Whereas other Deva-s and Devi-s are "brought forth" through mantra-s, Shri Devi Ushā, on the other hand, is "brought forth" with "true prayer". In other words, she's heck-a-lot important.
    Yes , Vedic gods have blond hair(Indra/bhaga etc..) .Though Vedic Brahmins predominantly had black hair , there are many references of blonde Brahmins [patanjali's pingalakeshin(=blond hair),hiranyakeshin(=golden hair) of srauta sutras ] etc. However , there is no racism at all anywhere in Rigveda.

    The more race conscious Buddhist scriptures provide many glimpses. Buddhacharita(23.2) says--"Brahmins of uncorrupted caste have blue eyes and blond hair " . Many blond Brahmins are mentioned in Buddhist scriptures namely-Kapila, sariputra , maudgalayana , megha and others . Pramanavartikatika (A commentary on aforesaid scriptures) says absence of such features is a sign of intermixing. Buddha suggested that black haired Brahmins dye their hair colour.

    However , the absence of these notions in rigveda confirms beyond any doubt that Rigvedic society was tolerant , multicultural and egalitarian .

  8. #8

    Re: Roots of Shakti.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sudas Paijavana View Post
    Namaste,

    Apparently, in the Shri Atharva-Veda, NirRti is described as having "golden locks" - the ["malicious"] one with blond hair (A.V.5.7.9 ?). In the Shri Rg-Veda, there are a few Rca-s that stress a notion that the agnitra seeks protection from her, that she is to be driven away for she brings with her mystical, spiritual, and physical pain or agony; and, if she approaches the yajna, inauspiciousness is brought forth and subsequently the yajna is thus voided (R.V.10.59). While Shri Rudra, a few times invoked in the Veda-s as the God of Gods, is eulogized as "nir-Rta" ("uncontrollable", "lawless", "unconquerable"), NirRti, on the other hand, is maligned as "nir-Rti" - and in the latter sense, this is implying "without order", "one who does not hold to the Rta [or the order of things] nor the yajna-dharma", rather than the praise of "uncontrollable" eulogizing Shri Rudra, the "howler" - he that dispenses those that come to destroy the yajna-dharma.



    Namaste,

    I guess today's notions of "Shaktism" can arbitrarily be posited as "proto-Shaktism" when it comes to finding it within the Vedic corpus (I presume you are talking about the Veda-s, BrAhmaNa-s, ĀraNyaka-s, & the Upanishad-s). While a full blown "Shaktic" theology is not vehemently vivid, it's also not as vapid as previously believed. In fact, Shri Devi Aditi is, often numerously, described as the Universal Mother, the Mother of the Shri Gods. This is pretty much as "Shaktic" as one can get. More importantly, numerous Rca-s extolling Shri Devi Aditi can be found even in the Shri Rig Veda -- an important Hindu scripture often previously [and probably still] held as being man-centric -- dispelling past notions of "a scripture written entirely by men", which is observably incorrect since many Rishikā-s are listed in the anukramani-s.

    Unbeknownst to many Hindus, Shri Devi Ushā, another important Hindu Goddess, is the only Shri God that is invoked with "satya-mantra" - or "true prayer".

    "They indeed were Comrades of the Gods, Possessed of Truth, the Poets of Old: the Fathers found the Hidden Light and with True Prayer brought forth the Dawn (Shri Devi Ushā)." (R.V.7.76.4)
    Whereas other Deva-s and Devi-s are "brought forth" through mantra-s, Shri Devi Ushā, on the other hand, is "brought forth" with "true prayer". In other words, she's heck-a-lot important.
    Totally agree. Aditi already had the characteristics of a "universal mother goddess" in rigveda (mandalas 1 and 10)

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    Re: Roots of Shakti.

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Namaste,

    Excerpt from Atharva Veda on Mother Goddess :

    4.30.1-9 These verses glorify the Mother Goddess.

    Some excerpts :
    “I move in the eleven Rudras and eight Vasus, the twelve Adityas and Vishvedeva. I am BrahmanvAdini (the revealer of the Brahman) and ParBrahmanAtmika (the Self one with Brahman). I nourish the MitrAvaruNa and support the IndrAgni and Ashvidvaya. I am BrahmAntikA and am the ruler of the whole manifest universe. I have realised Brahman. I am Self alone in other form. I alone preach Indra and other gods and the men the knowledge of Brahman. Whoever eats, eats through me. All works like seeing, hearing, breathing etc. are done through me alone. I pervade all as the inner dweller. .... The VidhAtA (BrahmA) who lives in satya loka is born through me. I am the cause of this universe and I am the Brahman Consciousness too. I am the fire (BaRwAnal) in the ocean and the teja in the electricity is mine alone. Without taking help from anyone, I, creating the beings act as the wind.”

    OM
    Your translation seems to be slightly interpolated and/or has an advaitin-slant, vAgAmbhR^iNI R^iShiH never says that she "preaches" to indra, the other gods, and the men, it says that she makes a person into a brAhmaNa, R^iShi, or intelligent individual (yaM kAmaye taM tamugraM kR^iNomi tam brahmANaM tamR^iShiM taM sumedhAm) THROUGH sharing the knowledge, in and of herself, which is pleasing to the deva-s, to humans, and others (ahameva svayamidaM vadAmi juShTam devebhiruta mAnuShebhiH). It never states that the deva-s themselves did not know the knowledge or that she preached to them; she is just conveying that knowledge which loved by the deva-s, hence the term "juShTam."
    Here is a recitation of the devI sUktam if you're interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCinQRLPiBQ
    படைபோர் புக்கு முழங்கும்அப் பாஞ்சசன்னியமும் பல்லாண்டே
    May your pA~nchajanya shankha which reverberates on the battlefield, last thousands upon thousands of years...
    http://archives.mirroroftomorrow.org...anchajanya.jpg

  10. #10

    Re: Roots of Shakti.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alter ego View Post
    Pranam



    I am not sure what you mean by 'Vedic corpus'. Goddess shri is absent in vedas .

    Nirrti is mentioned , but she is not a goddess . She is an abstract personification of malicious things , and as such she is not to be worshiped but avoided. There is not a single ric/sukta in praise of nirrti . The goddess durga/kali is not mentioned in vedas
    Namaste AE,

    What i meant by Vedic corpus is the main Vedic era texts like the Vedas,Upanishads,Aranyakas,Brahmanas etc

    Yes,i know Nirrti is said to be avoided,but in Satpatha Brahmana she has a sacrificial share(or oblation) so it means she was worshiped in one way or another.

    About Sri/Lakshmi,she is mentioned in Brahmanas and early Jaina-Bauddha texts as Goddess of luck.The Gajalakshmi iconography can also be seen in early Buddhist stupas like in Sanchi and Bharhut.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sudas Paijavana View Post
    Namaste,
    I guess today's notions of "Shaktism" can arbitrarily be posited as "proto-Shaktism" when it comes to finding it within the Vedic corpus (I presume you are talking about the Veda-s, BrAhmaNa-s, ĀraNyaka-s, & the Upanishad-s). While a full blown "Shaktic" theology is not vehemently vivid, it's also not as vapid as previously believed. In fact, Shri Devi Aditi is, often numerously, described as the Universal Mother, the Mother of the Shri Gods. This is pretty much as "Shaktic" as one can get. More importantly, numerous Rca-s extolling Shri Devi Aditi can be found even in the Shri Rig Veda -- an important Hindu scripture often previously [and probably still] held as being man-centric -- dispelling past notions of "a scripture written entirely by men", which is observably incorrect since many Rishikā-s are listed in the anukramani-s.

    Unbeknownst to many Hindus, Shri Devi Ushā, another important Hindu Goddess, is the only Shri God that is invoked with "satya-mantra" - or "true prayer".

    "They indeed were Comrades of the Gods, Possessed of Truth, the Poets of Old: the Fathers found the Hidden Light and with True Prayer brought forth the Dawn (Shri Devi Ushā)." (R.V.7.76.4)

    Whereas other Deva-s and Devi-s are "brought forth" through mantra-s, Shri Devi Ushā, on the other hand, is "brought forth" with "true prayer". In other words, she's heck-a-lot important.
    Namaste bro,

    Yes,i am aware of Sri Aditi and Sri Ushas,there is no doubt that they are invoked as highly adored Goddesses.But my question was about Parvati(or Shakti) in general.I don't think either Aditi nor Ushas is equated with Parvati.


    Btw,does anyone know about Sri Aditi's relation with fertility Goddess Lajja Gauri?She is an ancient Goddess,her imagery is found in Indus-Sarasvati civilization and during Mauryan-Sunga times....
    Last edited by Aryavartian; 16 January 2014 at 02:47 AM.
    "Only one is the fire,which is inflamed in numerous ways.Only one is the sun, which pervades the whole universe.Only one is the dawn,which illuminates all things. Similarly,all that exists is The One and it has manifested into everything here.”

    ~ Rg Veda 8.58.2

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