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Thread: other then 2...

  1. #31

    Re: other then 2...

    om gurave namah

    Namaste,

    If some can smell the flowers, yet others blankly not.
    Then might for some pleasure be found, in the banging of a drum;
    If so, then just how many colours need be rendered; to write an eternal song?
    With all these things considered I think it fair only now to ask:
    What indeed would happen, if the music were to stop?


    That was several words; No harm or insult intended.

    trikāla fun!





    Kind regards.
    Last edited by Mana; 23 February 2014 at 12:32 PM.

  2. #32

    Re: other then 2...

    Namaste Mana

    Quote Originally Posted by Mana View Post
    That was several words; No harm or insult intended.
    None taken. Lowlifes ain't in bizness of taking offense. Hehe.

    trikāla fun!
    Makes me remember of an old friend, an internet rock star, named "MV", I've heard he's devoted himself to kavitā and kavi-s, sure he could appreciate this much better than me lowlife. Hehe.

    Kind regards.
    Hehe.

    P.S.: I got it. M smells flowers, K doesn't. Hehe.
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

  3. #33
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    Re: other then 2...

    hariḥ o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    Within dvaita, one may say - oh yes, I feel one with you, and with you, and you. It is one person's "I-feeling' saying they feel one with another 'I' person ( or individual). There is nothing wrong with this, in fact I am sure it is a very nice feeling.

    Yet the fullness that the wise discuss (pūrṇapātrapratibhaṭa -fullness or a full vessel i.e. overflowing , supreme) when fully blossomed it not the collective individual 'I-feeling' togetherness. It is something much more profound. It is when there are no other 'I's that are seen, not even one's own 'I' ( individuality) . It has melted away or cannot be found, tagged or located. No boundary exists ( the boundary of individualism is no longer). There is just Being, fullness, wholeness every were.

    But yajvan, what happens to people ? What does this person who perceives only Being and homogeneous Self everywhere, what happens to the containers of being we call a person ?

    The wise say that people become the ~fragrance ~ of the Self. They are expressions of this Being.

    The principle offered here is this: The world is as you are. If you live in diversity then the world is filled with the multitude of differences. Yet if one resides with one's on Being (Self) then the world is none other then this extension... pure homogenous being. In a previous post above it was called satatoditam¹.


    iti śivaṁ
    1. satatoditam, without break or pause; 'without break or pause' is some times called avicchinnātaparamārthaṁ, uninterrupted, yet the word I often use is satatoditam (satata + udita)
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  4. #34

    Re: other then 2...

    Namaste,

    "Advaita" is inadequate in correctly conveying what "Adititva" means, if a case for equivalence among these is indeed made.

    1. Aditi:
    f. boundlessness, immensity, inexhaustible abundance, unimpaired condition, perfection, creative power, Name of one of the most ancient of the Indian goddesses ("Infinity"or the"Eternal and Infinite Expanse").

    2. Adititva: (ref: RV, BrArUp)
    adititva n. the state of the goddess aditi.

    adititva n. the condition of aditi - , or of freedom, unbrokenness.
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

  5. #35
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    Re: other then 2...

    hariḥ o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalicharan Tuvij View Post
    Aditi:
    f. boundlessness, immensity, inexhaustible abundance, unimpaired condition, perfection, creative power, Name of one of the most ancient of the Indian goddesses ("Infinity"or the"Eternal and Infinite Expanse").

    The beauty of this word comes to us from its component form: a + didi

    • a (3rd derivative) = not ; or a contrary sense like a-sat which would be 'not good'
    • didi = cutting , splitting , dividing
    a + didi therefore is not + cut or divided ; therefore we get whole, uncut, undivided, unbounded.

    A very beautiful term ,which IMHO aligns nicely with advaita but directly in line with satatoditam, without break or pause.

    iti śivaṁ
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  6. #36
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    Re: other then 2...

    Dear Yajavan Ji.,

    Very interesting question.... in the entire chain this particular idea is not yet expressed.. so adding my two cents...

    DviTaTwo -

    Two Subjects as in "Dependent" and "Independent" if it is about categories of Vastu! ( Controlled, Controller comes in to this as one aspect called "Control", Changing and unchanging is also under the same category just for the info)
    Two as Source and reflection - Bimba and PratiBimba

    Everything else then springs out from the concept of "Two" - in to three, four and to infinite! ( This is the reason why the school which details the reality should not be misunderstood as mere "Dualism" - Dvaita Vada is a wrong notion)

  7. #37
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    Re: other then 2...

    hariḥ o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté


    Within the trika¹ view of reality all and everything that exists, or did not exist is none other than śiva – a very full and encompassing view no doubt.
    This is implied in the term trika or 3 made of these 3 terms / notions :

    • parā – whole, full, Supreme – complete unity, paripūrṅānuttara = pari+pūrṅā+anuttara totally full where nothing can suppress it in being stainless, unbounded and pure.
    • parāpara – unity in diversity – there’s differences yet there is an underlying unity.
    • aparā – there is diversity and multiplicity of every thing, idea, place, etc. – some call this out as diversity in unity, but that tends to cause some people consternation.


    Because the notion that śiva is all inclusive it is the opinion from a trika view , that all-and-everything ( and no-thing) comes from this source.
    In fact the term śiva is rooted in the term śī , ‘in whom all things lie’ ; This Presence, Being, plenum, sattā , contains everything within its Self. Nothing exists outside
    of this plenum. Hence of all the offers, views, śastra-s, āgama-s, etc. have descended down by this totally full presence of Being – so says trika darśana ( others may vary).

    Pending one’s ~wiring~ people and aspirants are attracted to one view or other in terms of understanding their world, themselves, and the universe about them ( and through them).
    Now what does this have to do with this string?

    The bhāgavad gītā is one of the best resources for insight that sanātana dharma has to offer. My teacher has informed us many times that this śastra is so whole & complete
    that it includes all 6 (classical) schools¹ of Indian thought in every word and śloka that is offered within the 700 verses . In kaśmir śaivism this book is called gitārtha saṁgraha, authored
    by abhinavagupta-ji; he took the 700 verses and expanded them to 716. His orientation was to unveil in full parām
    ādvaita or supreme nonduality. Another was śrī jñānadev and his writings
    called bhāvārtha dīpkā. Hence great luminaries looked to this śastra as a storehouse of knowledge on Reality itself.

    My point to offer is, within the bhāgavad gītā is seems obvious (to me) that duality (aparā) and parāpara or unity in diversity, as subject matter is apparent.
    That is, many talk of arjuna and kṛṣṇa-jī’s discussions (this can be considered ‘two’), and many talk of kṛṣṇa-jī showing arjuna his universal form – this
    would be an example of unity in diversity. But where is the indication of parā , of this total wholeness ?

    It is my opinion it can be found several places, but the one that is most interesting and perhaps esoteric (rahasya or concealed, secret)
    Is the following statement from there kṛṣṇa-jī:
    ye caiva sāttvikā bhāvā rājasāstāmasāśca ye|
    mattaḥ eveti tānviddhi na tvahaṁ teṣu te mayi||12

    This says,
    All those states of being, states of existence (bhāvā) ( the 3 gua-s) sāttvikā, rājasās & tāmasāśca
    know that (tānviddhi¹) they truly, in this manner (eveti) come from me (mattaḥ);
    they are in me but I not in them (na tvahaṁ teṣu te mayi).

    At the very heart of duality is the notion of ‘me’ and everything that is not ‘me’ i.e. everything else.
    With this one verse kṛṣṇa-jī is quite clear on this matter. Everything is contained within Him. Nothing is outside of Him.
    If all is He, where can there be duality ? What can be outside of Him, or other then Him ? In one stoke ( one verse) is the core of advaita ( not two).

    For many , this view may cause some consternation. It is not meant to do so. It is just an extension of the conversation that began with post 1 above.

    iti śivaṁ

    words



    • tānviddhi - viddhi is ‘the act of piercing ‘, vid is to know + tān = tāt = in this way
    • mattaḥ - from me; mat = mad – to animate, exhilarate; also some may look at it as ma = measure out ( like saying measured out from me)
    • tva = several
    • trika consists of 4 schools offered in 92 āgama-s some may call śastra-s
      • pratyabhijñā
      • kula
      • krama
      • spanda




    • 6 Schools of thought (saḍ darśana)
      • For the ṣaḍ-darśana one could in general group the 6 into 3 pairs :
      • yoga & sāṁkhya
      • mimāṁsā & vedānta as vedānta is also known as uttara mimāṁsā a.k.a. the brahma-sūtra-s
        Also some distingush mimāṁsā as pūrva ( former , prior ) to that of uttara ( later , following , subsequent ) mimāṁsā
      • nyāya & vaiśeṣika - logic and cosmology - Here we find the 'atom eater' or kaṇāda-muni the author of the vaiśeṣika branch. And we have akṣapāda-muni (akṣapāda = having his eyes fixed on his feet ) of the nyāya philosophy.
      • parārtha - the highest advantage or interest ~ meant to prove or demonstrate some truth~.
    Last edited by yajvan; 14 October 2015 at 07:20 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  8. #38
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    Re: other then 2...

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    Let’s look to another śloka that gives us ( perhaps me) some pause on how profound the bhāgavad gītā’s offering is and its ability to talk on mutliple levels.

    Our orientation has been on duality and the various ways the bhāgavad gītā works within these confines of two, but when looked at from a different angle ( POV)
    there is another offer that brings out more knowledge.

    There is little doubt that the yoga & sāṁkhya darśana’s appear within the gita, not to mention vedānta. In these schools there are ‘2’, even in vedānta, there is brahman
    that is perfectly still, pure, silent, ubiquitous. Yet ‘manifestation’ occurs by something called māyā that is not a part of brahman. We are told by ādi śaṅkara¹
    that this māyā in śāntabrahmavāda ( another name for advaita vedānta) is neither real or unreal. Due to this real and unreal status one needs to re-examine the
    world around them for its true nature and its ~real-ness~. I take no issue with this view. Yet there is another consideration to keep in mind.

    If we look to the last post above kṛṣṇa-jī was quite clear that everything resides inside of Him. So, if this brahman is perfectly still , without movement, how then
    does this universe come about
    ? Kṛṣṇa-jī answers this for us in chapter 9 , 8th śloka:

    prakṛtim svām avastabhya
    visrjami punaḥ punaḥ |
    bhūta-grāmam imaṁ kṛtsnam
    avaśaṁ prakṛter vaśāt
    ||8

    This says curving back (leaning, resting-upon or avaṣṭabhya) onto my SELF (svām) I create (visṛjāmi) again and again (punaḥ punaḥ).
    All this (kṛtsnam) which exists ( manifestation and variety bhūta-grāmam) , that comes into creation (prakṛti) is done by my authority or command (vaśāt).

    This clearly suggests that brahman is in fact active within ItSelf. The term used in kaśmir śaivism is spanda. This means a slight quiver, a vibration. When the common person ( sometimes called kalā śarīra or body of actions) thinks of vibration, they think of a beginning and ending oscillation ( could be sound related, or wave or etc); yet this spanda is different. If it was
    the ‘traditional’ vibration, then it is the unstruck sound anāhata nāda¹. Yet it is more profound than this.
    This spanda as mentioned is vimarśa. This in common terms means examination, consideration. It is the Supreme aware of itself. It is the Supreme ‘as if’ examining itSelf ,
    and this term is then vimarśana – intuitive awareness of one’s own Being, the Supreme's awareness of Itself all the time, without break or pause ( no time off, no vacations, no lunch breaks)
    and this is called
    satatoditam.

    Hence from these few sloka-s of the bhāgavad gītā we find some of the qualities of the Supreme:

    • yatsaḥ sarvam - from whom proceeds all
    • yasmin sarvam - in whom resides all
    • satatoditam - This ( anuttara or unpassable) Presence, Being, sattā is continuous , without break-or-pause



    We now perhaps see the beauty in kṛṣṇa-jī’s own words: curving back (leaning, resting-upon or avaṣṭabhya) onto my SELF (svām).
    This is none other than His own innate nature to be Self-aware all the time without beginning-or-end (ananta – boundless) and unstruck (anāhata).

    iti śivaṁ

    words


    • Ādi Śaṅkara we also know as Śaṅkara Bhagavatpāda.
    • anāhata nāda - anāhata = unstuck, unbeaten + nāda = sound. Within the human experience one can find about 10 of these sounds resonating. One upanisad calls them out: haṁsa-upaniṣad

    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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