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Thread: Mukthi and self-realiazation

  1. #1

    Mukthi and self-realiazation

    Dear members

    I have seen many advaitans telling that advaita is better than Dvaita and Vice Versa.While each one aims the soul to get liberated,there are lot of disagreements on this.

    I have a query on Muktis mentioned on our puranas which is basically Duality one.I request members to give their opinion and confirm if my understanding is correct on below lines.

    ) sArUpya mukti : Here individual Soul acquires the form of the personal god and enjoys the same, intense bliss as its god.It necessarily means soul has realised the GOD and became like its GOD.

    Is this equal to self-realization in advaita?


    2) sAyujya mukti: Here soul gets absorbed into its personal God and no longer born again.

    is this equal to liberation in advaita?


    As per my understanding,people can choose any one path and travel based on their spiritual level.Im not sure which one is easier and which one has lot of obstacles

    I will be happy if learned members clarify my doubt.

  2. #2
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    Re: Mukthi and self-realiazation

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by Who am i View Post
    Dear members

    I have seen many advaitans telling that advaita is better than Dvaita and Vice Versa.While each one aims the soul to get liberated,there are lot of disagreements on this.
    I have not seen this occur on our HDF site ( I am not suggesting you are inferring this ). I have seen many (on HDF) choose to compare-and-contrast the two though.

    Yet it is the wise advaitin who knows that the Supreme that the dvaitan-s give their adoration is none other then the Self (ātmamukhaṃ¹). Arguments and dis-agreements of who is better is that of spiritually young. The wise watch and remain neither (udāsīna¹) as the clarity of their vision remains unblemished¹ on this matter.

    iti śivaṁ

    words







    • ātmamukhaṃ = ātma + mukhaṃ
      • ātma = Self, or Being, some say svarūpa ( one's essential nature)
      • mukhaṃ = mukha = turning towards; facing


    • udāsīna - neither friend of foe ; indifferent
    • unblemished - niṣkalaṅka - stainless; without blemish
    Last edited by yajvan; 10 March 2014 at 08:12 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #3
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    Re: Mukthi and self-realiazation

    namaste.

    This post might help you:
    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...67&postcount=9

    Quote Originally Posted by Who am i View Post
    Dear members

    I have seen many advaitans telling that advaita is better than Dvaita and Vice Versa.While each one aims the soul to get liberated,there are lot of disagreements on this.

    I have a query on Muktis mentioned on our puranas which is basically Duality one.I request members to give their opinion and confirm if my understanding is correct on below lines.

    ) sArUpya mukti : Here individual Soul acquires the form of the personal god and enjoys the same, intense bliss as its god.It necessarily means soul has realised the GOD and became like its GOD.

    Is this equal to self-realization in advaita?


    2) sAyujya mukti: Here soul gets absorbed into its personal God and no longer born again.

    is this equal to liberation in advaita?


    As per my understanding,people can choose any one path and travel based on their spiritual level.Im not sure which one is easier and which one has lot of obstacles

    I will be happy if learned members clarify my doubt.
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

  4. #4

    Re: Mukthi and self-realiazation

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté



    I have not seen this occur on our HDF site ( I am not suggesting you are inferring this ). I have seen many (on HDF) choose to compare-and-contrast the two though.

    Yet it is the wise advaitin who knows that the Supreme that the dvaitan-s give their adoration is none other then the Self (ātmamukhaṃ¹). Arguments and dis-agreements of who is better is that of spiritually young. The wise watch and remain neither (udāsīna¹) as the clarity of their vision remains unblemished¹ on this matter.

    iti śivaṁ

    words







    • ātmamukhaṃ = ātma + mukhaṃ
      • ātma = Self, or Being, some say svarūpa ( one's essential nature)
      • mukhaṃ = mukha = turning towards; facing


    • udāsīna - neither friend of foe ; indifferent
    • unblemished - niṣkalaṅka - stainless; without blemish
    Respected Yajvanji

    Yes,you are right.Many new starters get confused which path to travel and end nowhere.My opinion is that one should start with Duality and move to Advaita once they are matured spiritually.

  5. #5

    Re: Mukthi and self-realiazation

    Quote Originally Posted by saidevo View Post
    Vanakkam Saidevo,

    Thanks for your link.This was really wonderfully written article.But i have some queries and would request you to clear my doubts.

    In one of the lines,you mentioned as below:

    [..]

    This kind of mukti by VishiShtadvaita bhakti lasts until the worlds of personal gods last.

    [..]

    How does God's world get destroyed? Does vaikunta gets destroyed during Mahapralaya?In that case,what happens to those Enlightened souls?

    [..]

    Also during Maha Pralaya,Satya-loka, Tapa-loka, Jana-loka, and Mahar-loka are destroyed.I thought Those who got Videha Mukthi reside in one of these lokas and will get dissolved during Maha Pralaya.Is this correct?

    Please clarify Sir.


    Thanks
    Last edited by Who am i; 29 May 2014 at 09:43 PM.

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    Re: Mukthi and self-realiazation

    Om

    Dear " Who am I",

    Mukti is a deep subject defined differently by different sects because of their varied perception of God.

    In today's scientific language the definitions might vary and our understanding can be given a scientific flavor. This will free the "mukti" concept of any packaging in the name of gods.

    There was some discussions happened earlier in this regard. One of them is in the link below. You may find it interesting

    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=12232
    Love and best wishes:hug:

  7. #7

    Re: Mukthi and self-realiazation

    Quote Originally Posted by Who am i View Post
    Dear members
    I have seen many advaitans telling that advaita is better than Dvaita and Vice Versa.While each one aims the soul to get liberated,there are lot of disagreements on this.
    This is where saiva siddhanta dis-agrees with them by saying that even at mukthi your aanava is there but is reduced due to blessing of shiva.It basically disagrees with all three advaita/dvaita/vishishta advaita giving many examples....taking apart words like dvaita and advaita from the vedas and establishing a separate philosophy by sankara and ramanuja was only known to create more confusion among us hindus.

    http://www.skandagurunatha.org/deities/siva/home.asp

    we are known as sagalar with three malas(aanavam,kanmam,mayai).vinyanakalar has two and pralayakalar has one just ego(aanavam) and they attain mukthi during Mahapralaya till then they will be born again and again.during Mahapralaya even sakthi gets absorbed into shiva and he stands alone giving some rest to all souls from endless cycle of birth.

  8. #8
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    Re: Mukthi and self-realiazation

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    Let me ask this to the esteemed HDF reader... why is the advaitin term used ? One will immediately say, yajvan it means 'not two'. Those that follow the not-two ( non-dual) philosophy.

    Yes, this we know... why not just say eva-itin ? ( eva = one ) - or those that follow the philosophy of the 'one'.

    Why even bring in the notion of 'not two' - why mention two ?

    any thoughts on this matter ?
    iti śivaṁ
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  9. #9

    Re: Mukthi and self-realiazation

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hari

    Why even bring in the notion of 'not two' - why mention two ?

    any thoughts on this matter ?
    Because there are souls and God.Advaitians believe we become godlike at mukthi but dvaitians dont.

  10. #10
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    Re: Mukthi and self-realiazation

    Namaste,

    At mahApralaya, everything gets destroyed. The realized souls, be it any type of mutki mentioned in SAstra-s, they merge permanently in hari / hara or paramAtmAn. After that there is no rebirth. They suffer no pain at the time of dissolution says bhagavAn in gItA.

    Everything, gross and subtle, is made up of 3 guNa-s which becomes dormant or say stay unmanifested. paramAtmAn is beyond three guNa-s (mAyA)

    In case of kaivalya mukti after the body drops, one immediately attains this state and does not have to wait for mahApralaya.

    Those great souls in company of hari / hara, do not feel any pain while the world is destroyed.

    There is philosophical disagreement whether vaikunTha is destroyed or not.

    The lOka or pada or dhAma is explained by vaiSNava AcArya-s as jyOti which means a state of consciousness (as mAdhva says in his gItA bhASya. mAdva further goes on to quote nArada purANa in support of his explanation of the word padam)

    Adi Sankara in his prabOdh sudhAkara has quoted some verses from bhAgavat purANa. He says that each bramhANDa has it's own trinity - brahma, viShNu and maheSa / Sambhu.

    So in this case, there is not just one viShNu. Naturally when brahmANDa is destroyed, everything merges into Brahman called by many names like nArAyaNa / Siva / paramAtman.

    My understanding says that it is the association of viShNu with paramAtmAn that viShNu bhagavAna is glorified as Brahman. They all are permanently rooted in paramAtmAn.

    Interestingly Adi Sankara in pra. su. goes on to say that Krishna is the descend of this very paramAtmAn i.e. paramAtmAn taking a particular form and trinity is under his sway.

    He also says that krishNa is his ISTa devatA

    The none difference between jIva and brahman is based to bhAga-tyAga laxaNa.

    jIva DOES NOT BECOME Siva

    jIva does not become Siva look-a-like ... and jIva does not retires original Siva ... and does not perform his task

    Advaita supports vivarta vAda and not pariNAm vAda.

    This is the most common mistake that many people do. There is no 'becoming'. Milk turning into curd does not apply here.

    Infact one of the mukti-s mentioned in bhAgavat is sarupya. Perhaps someone can explain what exactly it is.

    Regarding the question of OP.

    kaivalya mukti is related to formless aspect of Brahman. If sAyujya mukti, as I understand would mean united with / merged with a personal form of supreme Godhead. If it is formless brahman, then I think there would be no difference in kaivalya and sAyujya.

    OM
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

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