AtmaKara

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté

Respected Members

I have a query related to Atmakhaara.which chart should be used to find atmakhara?Is it bhava chart or rasi chart?

Can you explain to our readers the difference between the 2 and and perhaps what one chart is used for vs. the other ?

iti śivaṁ

[Rohiniranjan]

As far as I know, unlike other upagrahas which are essentially mathematical points just as rahu and ketu in calculations are, if we were to believe in the analogical and metaphorical essence of our mythology -- rahu and ketu were once a pinda, as other planets etc who are graced to serve as charakaraka. Hence, they are somewhat elevated from the a-pinda status for one of them (the head portion) to be incorporated in the charakkaraka retinue. One thing that often or seemingly so gets glossed over is that in BPHS Parashara Muni indicated in several places that there were several opinions prevalent even then and evidently worthy of note even for the Great Maharshi! One such instance is the opening sloka of the Karaka-adhyaaya. He mentions such diversification of opinions about whether to consider 7 or 8 (including Rahu) and also the yet another proviso mentioned that if two planets are equal in longitude then Rahu steps in as the 7th karaka, whereas others maintained that there should be 8 karakas, not 7. Like in many places in BPHS, the single definitive position is not given or probably got lost over time and folks at least on internet (and perhaps not just on internet...) are still scratching heads over those! Munde munde mati bhinna...!!

Rahu and ketu are unique since their movement is predominantly retrograde (and their mean positions always retrograde). They are also exactly 180 degrees apart and move in tandem keeping exactly that distance, the true as well as the mean nodes. Hence, their elongation must be counted from the point of entry or general entry and not the usual IN and OUT doors of rashis as used for other planets in the karakatwa determination.

This astronomical-mathematical reality leads to an interesting situation. In many vargas, such as Hora, trishamsha, shodashamsha, vimshamsha, chaturvimshamsha, khavedamsha and akshavedamsha, out of the 16 mentioned by Parashara, the pinda of nodes seems to re-form again, although remaining split in others of the medley of 16. This is a very interesting happening and arguably an indication of something significant but not necessary to delve further for the sakes of current message context and forum space.

For those who wish to explore further, on their own, please collect charts of relatives where rahu gets karakattwa in the 7K or 8K schemes in ways more than one as mentioned above, and see if in the lagnas etc of the relevant relatives which are indicated in a nativity's charts as putrakaraka, pitrakaraka, matrikaraka, kalatra (dara) karaka and then please decide for yourself if the *file* should remain open or closed, perhaps prematurely ;-)

Love, Light, Reality!

Rohiniranjan

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté

This is from an older post...

I Have mentioned karaka's on a few occasions regarding Jyotish.
There are 3 types -

• Naisargika or natural -shows everything that exists in creation. This is represented/owned by Brahma , since He is the author of all this creation. All 9 graha's are considered in this scheme.
• Chara - are variable - there are 8 graha's ( Ketu is not included here) and are ruled by Vishnu. These chara karaka's indicate who influences the native in this life. Visnu rules over sustenance, maintenance and spiritual progress, these charakaraka point out these influences in one's chart.
• Sthira - are fixed. There are 7 graha's in this category and are ruled by Siva. These fixed karka's show the destruction of the body , hence Rudra plays a key role. Rahu and Ketu are not part of the 7, as they do not have physical bodes (e.g. moon or Chandra is of material origin, size, weight, mass, etc). These sthira-karaka assists the Jyotisha in determining the death of the body.

So, this karaka is the significator, indicator or one who causes an event , situation or condition. We have natural, variable and fixed as mentioned above. The Charakaraka are of great import to the sadhu as it points out some key influences

• Atmakaraka - the SELF
• Amatyakaraka - the Advisors ( guru's and the like)
• Bhratrikaraka - Siblings
• Matrikaraka - Mother or Mother figure ( nurturing)
• Pitrikaraka - Father and/or Father figure ( a boss, leader, etc)
• Putrakaraka - Children or Child like ( followers, sisya)
• Jnatikaraka - Rivals
• Darakarka - Spouse or the like ( married to or devoted to)

What is of interest is the Atmakarka for the sadhu - as this also
assists one on determining the Ishtadevata from a Jyotish perspective. If one wishes to read this information please consider the following Ishtadevata specific posts:
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=8883&postcount=1
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=8886&postcount=1
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=8940&postcount=1

Ketu is not included for a specific reason... I will let one research why this is so; nothing in jyotish is haphazardly done.

iti śivaṁ

[Rohiniranjan]

Yajvan ji,

Why is Guru in your list associated with amaatya and not pitrikaraka? Teacher is one of the five 'father-figures' from what I understand, in hindu thinking and belief!

Regards and thanks in advance,

Rohiniranjan

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté

Yajvan ji,

Why is Guru in your list associated with amaatya and not pitrikaraka? Teacher is one of the five 'father-figures' from what I understand, in hindu thinking and belief!

Regards and thanks in advance,

Rohiniranjan

It is so because gūrū is the highest advisor... I see your point of father as the śiṣya is the ~son~ , yet this is how I was taught; the slight difference is the birth father vs. the highest advisor.

iti śivaṁ

[Rohiniranjan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté



It is so because gūrū is the highest advisor... I see your point of father as the śiṣya is the ~son~ , yet this is how I was taught; the slight difference is the birth father vs. the highest advisor.

iti śivaṁ

Usually, realistically-speaking, no father, no sisya! Sometimes biology supervenes! ;-)

Anyways, whatever you were taught you must believe in! But how can that become a universally accepted truth?

See, how easily variant opinions can arise ...? There is no single opinion that prevails! Beliefs vary quite a bit even in those following the tenets of the same religion (Belief?), which is why I never force MY BELIEF on others, whether it be religious or astrological belief!

Love and Light and REALITY?

Rohiniranjan

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté

Usually, realistically-speaking, no father, no sisya! Sometimes biology supervenes! ;-)

Anyways, whatever you were taught you must believe in! But how can that become a universally accepted truth?

See, how easily variant opinions can arise ...? There is no single opinion that prevails! Beliefs vary quite a bit even in those following the tenets of the same religion (Belief?), which is why I never force MY BELIEF on others, whether it be religious or astrological belief!

Love and Light and REALITY?

I look at it a bit differently. One's use of various systems come about from the results they yield. Then the lineage ( paramparā) sticks to the teaching as it is passed down. My teacher and its lineage follows this approach.
Yet, as you mention and I agree - there is no force feeding on my side for any one idea or approach. Yet one must look to the fruit it yields and decide for oneself.

But that said, there are many things I'd like to believe but the facts do not bear them out. I have shared many on HDF - that I would think X would happen , but using the Y approach ( or knowledge) would be the correct way.
If I looked at the sun each and every day I would conclude by my observation that the sun goes around the earth... my perception verifies this every day , yet unfortunately it is not the case. Like that , I tend to keep an open mind and am always willing to drop a pre-existing idea for new information that offers more insight and is closer to the truth.
So, my orientation is thus:

• Amatyakaraka - the natural significator (kāraka) is gūrū some call bṛhaspati or jupiter.
• Pitrikaraka - the natural significator (kāraka) is the sun or sūrya/ravi.

When we look to the kāraka definitions for these, they align nicely to the applications for one's gūrū and one's father as applied.

iti śivaṁ

[Who am i]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namast�




Can you explain to our readers the difference between the 2 and and perhaps what one chart is used for vs. the other ?

iti śivaṁ

Respected Yajvanji

I just have basic understanding in Jyotish.I could see most of planet's position are same in both charts except 2-3 exceptions.Both astrologers informed that Budhan is my atmakaraka but their predictions was different on many counts.

That is why i posted for members advice.

[saswathy]

Dear friends ,
Yes . The rule does not apply to Rahu . But why ? Is it is because Rahu and kethu are always retrograde . In such a case why can't the rule be applied to all retrograde planets , in so long as they are retrograde . It is a genuine doubt . rgds

[Mana]

Namaste,

...
Ketu is not included for a specific reason... I will let one research why this is so; nothing in jyotish is haphazardly done.

Yajvan Ji, Ketu as Mokṣa karaka cannot be indicative of ones soul, else Mokṣa would already have been attained and the atman have no path thus reason for this birth.

Who am i, Your bhāva chakra is who you are due to your interaction with this world; the raśī chakra is the truth and as such to be used for predictions; you may feel though to be closer to the results supposed by your bhāva chakra, this will evolve as you walk through life.

If the Jyotisa that you chose is not spiritually mature; their atma will colour your reading. Your atmakaraka is Budha this conundrum seems indicative of that very nature, to be watchful of truth and always be truthful is your souls lesson in this birth.
How would you say that you see your life? The results given for the two different atmakaraka placements vary greatly; I am certain that you are able to feel which one really correlates to your experience, above that which is projected by life's influences and circumstances.

Kind regards.