Astrological indications of Sanyasi...

[Rohiniranjan]

Very nice discussions, Yajvan ji! Including the earlier ones (links provided by you).

Generally speaking, I have seen (at least in natal horoscopy; arudha in Kerala Horary System seem to be different and must not be confused by some readers here), arudha being used for lagna bhava, and pada for the remaining 11, although the calculation proposed is identical!

Now, my Sanskrit/hindi [hindi a tad better than Sanskrit :-( ] being rudimentary, I have always been a bit intrigued by the terms as applied. Arudha and arudhit. The former generally means (apart from astrological connotation) the seat whereas arudhita means 'seated', the former -- one may say -- is the potential, whereas, the latter means 'accomplished or manifested'.

So, in astrological terms and implications, should pada and arudha be considered identical or have I been making a flawed interpretation? I treat those as identical, except for the orientation point (arudha = 1P, pada = 2P-12P) but functionally the same (other than the reference house).

The bhrashta arishta (1P+12P); could that represent fall from position/grace as visualized (and understood) by onlookers, whereas Arudha (1P) + H12 could represent a true fall or loss of rajyoga or perhaps H1 + 12P as a fall perceived by self or something like that?

I do understand that graharudha according to some postings I have read earlier had been at least originally proposed as "How one looks at things, or in other words the perception of the nativity, in contrast with house-padas/arudha as how others perceive the nativity as.

I hope I am not confusing some readers with all of these permutations and combinations, although given the high standard of folks here, I would be surprised if anyone is confused, really!

Regards,

Rohiniranjan

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté

So, in astrological terms and implications, should pada and arudha be considered identical or have I been making a flawed interpretation? I treat those as identical, except for the orientation point (arudha = 1P, pada = 2P-12P) but functionally the same (other than the reference house).

Let's insure we are speaking of the same thing by eliminating a few items:

We know the ascendant is called the lagna... the lord of the langa is called the langaeśa ( some too call this langaeśvara or lagnapati);
the sign in which the langaeśa resides is called the pāka lagna ... a very important location, but will not dive in to this now.

So, the 1st elimination ( I hope). You are not thinking the pada = pāka , correct ?

• pada used in the ārūḍha pada calculations means a step, pace or stride. That is, 'getting to the location of' the ārūḍha, counting to the ārūḍha, etc.

2nd elimination
Now some times people think of pada and pāda are the same. I can see this as both come back to the notion of some kind of measure. Yet pāda is associated with the foot, it too is associated with :

• the foot of a column
• the foot of a tree
• a ray or beam of light i.e. the foot of a heavenly body
• etc.

Yet in jyotish this pāda is associated with 1/4 or the a fourth part ( and is defined as such) ; where do we se these 4th's ? In the nākṣatra aṃśa (portions) of 1/4th mesaures, and 4/4th's to a full nākṣatra. Some too can stretch this to mean koṇa-s ( corners, as there are 4 corners i.e. 1,4, 7 and 10th houses); hence koṇa has also come to be known as '4'.
So, how one sees pāda vs. pada can too cause a bit of consternation.

This ārūḍha¹ is very interesting...It comes to be known as 'image, reflection' when used as the ārūḍha lagna i.e. an image or reflection of the lagna. As far as I can tell this is ~improvised~ from its core definitions. We can take this up later if there is interest.

iti śivaṁ

1. ārūḍha - mounted; leaping up, etc. Note that rūḍha = sprung up , grown , increased , developed , produced from.

[Rohiniranjan]

Yajvan ji,

Just for clarification, without excessively using confusing (to many!) diacritical marks etc,, no I was not speaking of ripe and ready (to eat) lagna-paka lagna at all!

I was not talking or thinking of paada as in ajaikapaad etc, either!

Pada as in peeth, aasan, position (like Modi ji has now assumed the pada of pradhaan mantri of India and near his paada (feet) fall those who were criticising him days ago! (to use a graphic example-analogy!) :-) Here, paada as in charan! I could have, of course, used a divine example as well!!

So all that aside and behind us and nakshatra pada as well which fuels the ideal name for a newborn and which is identical to the navamshas in three cycles of nine, too (behind us), I was talking about the same pada which Parashar muni and other ancient doyens of Jyotish have used as the measure (that some call perception of others of different facets of the nativity) or secondary houses if one so chooses to call those, we are both on the same page, unless I am observing Yajvan ji's Maya pada :-)

All kidding aside, and hopefully you will only be amused by it and not offended :-( -- my query was:

Karakamsha is the navamsha rashi where atmakaraka is placed.
So in a makar rising chart, for instance, if surya is chara atmkarak and is in aries rashi and dhanu navamsha, then karakamsha would be in dhanu.

Some people then prepare or consider the karakamsha chart by reorienting the navamsa chart as if dhanu is rising and the rest of the planets as per the navamshas. Sun (any atmkaraka for that matter) would be in the first house of such a chart!

Others prepare a second chart with dhanu in rashi as first house and place the other planets as per the D1 chart, so sun in this case would be in the 5th house. (example changed to make question clearer!)

Still others use both configurations and to appease all, software vendors provide both options: K-N and K-R (N and R representing the navamsha and rashi configurations)

Would appreciate very much if you could share if your tradition too uses both K-N and K-R or one or the other in preferred practice?

Let me first understand this, without me complicating the question. That may be the best approach, perhaps!

As usual, much appreciative of your big hearted willingness to share your tradition with the rest of us who may naturally be not fully privy to it though still admiring it from a distance, at this time.

Regards,

Rohiniranjan

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté

Yajvan ji,

Some people then prepare or consider the karakamsha chart by reorienting the navamsa chart as if kumbha is rising and the rest of the planets as per the navamshas. Mars (any atmkaraka for that matter) would be in the first house of such a chart!

Others prepare a second chart with kumbha in rashi as first house and place the other planets as per the D1 chart, so mars in this case would be in the 4th house.

Still others use both configurations and to appease all, software vendors provide both options: K-N and K-R (N and R representing the navamsha and rashi configurations)

Would appreciate very much if you could share if your tradition too uses both K-N and K-R or one or the other in preferred practice?

Let me first understand this, without me complicating the question. That may be the best approach, perhaps!

As usual, much appreciative of your big hearted willingness to share your tradition with the rest of us who may naturally be not fully privy to it though still admiring it from a distance, at this time.

The kārakāṃśa¹ as you have mentioned is the sign that houses the ātmakāraka ; and we know that 12th from the kārakāṃśa (the location of the ātmakāraka) indicates one's iṣṭadevatā.

Within our school we look to chapter 1, 2nd pāda of jaimini-s¹ upadeśa sutra-s. Herein we see the svāṁśa called out - the lagna of the navaṃśa or 1/9th divisional chart ( but hold that thought).

Also the sign occupied by the lagna is the lagnāṁśa. Our school comprehends that mahāṛṣi parāśara knows the difference between the lagnāṁśa and the kārakāṃśa, yet uses the term svāṁśa to describe both (lagnāṁśa and the kārakāṃśa) when common rule to both are present or applicable.

So within our school ( to make a short story long):

• lagnāṁśa offers that which is readily available to the native to achieve or obtain.
• kārakāṃśa - represents the view ( implications) from the soul/ātman
• svāṁśa - is used when the rules and therefore the alignment of yoga-s, postions, count, apply to both

When we look to the lagna positions both lagnāṁśa and the kārakāṃśa are considered because there is a different view point being offered as aforementioned above.

This school comes by the hand of sanjay rath and his lineage going back to achutānanda-ji¹ , one of the pañcasakhya (5 great/competent friends) ; friends of whom ? We are informed , of mahāprabhu caitanya-ji¹.

iti śivaṁ
references and words

• kārakāṃśa - look to the 35th chapter of the brihat-parāśara-horā-śāstra, by mahārishi Parāśara for more information on this matter.
• ṛṣi jaimini who was the student of veda vyāsa ( some call vādarāyaṇa or bādarāyaṇa); his most noted work is upadeśa-sūtra-s.
• achutānanda-ji - more here: http://vedavyasacenter.org/teachers/freedom-cole/parampara/
• mahāprabhu caitanya-ji - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaitanya_Mahaprabhu

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté

Yet in jyotish this pāda is associated with 1/4 or the a fourth part ( and is defined as such) ; where do we se these 4th's ? In the nākṣatra aṃśa (portions) of 1/4th mesaures, and 4/4th's to a full nākṣatra. Some too can stretch this to mean koṇa-s ( corners, as there are 4 corners i.e. 1,4, 7 and 10th houses); hence koṇa has also come to be known as '4'.

I was on hopes some one would have questioned me on the use of this word koṇa. It is defined as corners as mentioned, but most jyotiṣi-s use the term tri-koṇa for the 3 trine corners ( 1st, 5th and 9th) , and kendra-s for the 1st, 4th, 7th and 10th houses.

...maybe next time!

iti śivaṁ

[Rohiniranjan]

the more recent quoted post of Yajvan ji, more fitting to ask this question at! Hence reposted!

[Rohiniranjan]

Dear Yajvan ji,

Firstly, please accept my apologies if my questions are posing any disturbance in your important work at all. Secondly, my seemingly continuing shortcoming in trying to explain and/or clarify what I am asking, however, it seems to be making you think and share things which I am not asking about at all! :-)

Taking an example, makar lagn rising, atmakarak surya in mesha rashi (kshetr) and dhanu navamansh. Karakamsh obviously is mesh in this case.

Now, two types of karakamsh charts ensue and both used in practice from what I have seen, by different jyotishis.

1) Karakamsh chart based on navamsha distribution, with dhanu in first house, sun in dhanu (1st house) and other navamsha placements distributed accordingly in this karakamsha chart.

2) Karakamsh chart based on kshetra distribution but with dhanu rashi placed in the first house and other planets distributed as per D1. So, sun in this K-chart is placed in the fifth house.

I get the impression that in the tradition that you have been taught to follow, the option-1 is utilized, but my question (curiosity) was/is if it follows or considers the 2nd option, at all, and if so, HOW, if you are allowed to share publicly! :-)

I do hope that this time I would be successful in receiving the reply to my question.

Regards,

Rohiniranjan

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté

The kārakāṃśa¹ as you have mentioned is the sign that houses the ātmakāraka ; and we know that 12th from the kārakāṃśa (the location of the ātmakāraka) indicates one's iṣṭadevatā.

Within our school we look to chapter 1, 2nd pāda of jaimini-s¹ upadeśa sutra-s. Herein we see the svāṁśa called out - the lagna of the navaṃśa or 1/9th divisional chart ( but hold that thought).

Also the sign occupied by the lagna is the lagnāṁśa. Our school comprehends that mahāṛṣi parāśara knows the difference between the lagnāṁśa and the kārakāṃśa, yet uses the term svāṁśa to describe both (lagnāṁśa and the kārakāṃśa) when common rule to both are present or applicable.

So within our school ( to make a short story long):

• lagnāṁśa offers that which is readily available to the native to achieve or obtain.
• kārakāṃśa - represents the view ( implications) from the soul/ātman
• svāṁśa - is used when the rules and therefore the alignment of yoga-s, postions, count, apply to both

When we look to the lagna positions both lagnāṁśa and the kārakāṃśa are considered because there is a different view point being offered as aforementioned above.

This school comes by the hand of sanjay rath and his lineage going back to achutānanda-ji¹ , one of the pañcasakhya (5 great/competent friends) ; friends of whom ? We are informed , of mahāprabhu caitanya-ji¹.

iti śivaṁ
references and words

• kārakāṃśa - look to the 35th chapter of the brihat-parāśara-horā-śāstra, by mahārishi Parāśara for more information on this matter.
• ṛṣi jaimini who was the student of veda vyāsa ( some call vādarāyaṇa or bādarāyaṇa); his most noted work is upadeśa-sūtra-s.
• achutānanda-ji - more here: http://vedavyasacenter.org/teachers/freedom-cole/parampara/
• mahāprabhu caitanya-ji - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaitanya_Mahaprabhu

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté

Dear Yajvan ji,

Firstly, please accept my apologies if my questions are posing any disturbance in your important work at all. Secondly, my seemingly continuing shortcoming in trying to explain and/or clarify what I am asking, however, it seems to be making you think and share things which I am not asking about at all! :-)

Taking an example, makar lagn rising, atmakarak surya in mesha rashi (kshetr) and dhanu navamansh. Karakamsh obviously is mesh in this case.

Now, two types of karakamsh charts ensue and both used in practice from what I have seen, by different jyotishis.

1) Karakamsh chart based on navamsha distribution, with dhanu in first house, sun in dhanu (1st house) and other navamsha placements distributed accordingly in this karakamsha chart.

2) Karakamsh chart based on kshetra distribution but with dhanu rashi placed in the first house and other planets distributed as per D1. So, sun in this K-chart is placed in the fifth house.

I get the impression that in the tradition that you have been taught to follow, the option-1 is utilized, but my question (curiosity) was/is if it follows or considers the 2nd option, at all, and if so, HOW, if you are allowed to share publicly! :-)

I do hope that this time I would be successful in receiving the reply to my question.

All questions are welcomed and no disturbance to my well being occurs. I was hoping I was answering your question in a thoughtful ( full ) manner but perhaps I am remiss.
I alluded to jaimini and his approach, as that is what we follow. That is your offer labelled #1.

Now that does not suggest a new offer will be given to us as a new approach, yet this occurs for specific applications ( that is your point #2). We are always offered a new technique that opens another door.

Now that said, let me say this to you and the HDF reader. I do not consider myself a fully-competent jyotiṣhi. I see myself as the śiṣya ( student) of this great knowledge and with little authority (adhikārin¹). My studies have continued over the decades, yet I stand on other's shoulders for this great knowledge.
I see a blind spot in my studies and it is not found in books or in the memory of the rules of jyotish. For my competence to be raised to a fitting level the blossoming of intuition must unfold. Then the 3 areas of expertise¹ blossom.

iti śivaṁ

words

• adhikārin - possessing authority

• what makes an excellent joytisa ? : http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...65&postcount=1

[KrishnaTVM]

Om Tat Sat,

Best to start with the definition of this rāja-bhraṣṭa yoga . This occurs when the lord of the ārūḍha lagna resides (conjoins) with the lord of the upapada lagna (UL). This UL is the ārūḍha of the 12th house.
So, one needs to know ( and understand) how to calculate the ārūḍha pada¹ of any sign. This is offered within this jyotish folder:
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1633
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1638
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1641

Thanks for helping me to understand AL & UL.

Now I've a follow up question. Does Raja-Bhrasta Yoga happens only when AL resides with lord of UL. Or we can use the normal conditions of aspects, parivartana's etc. I hope this can be applied only in D1.

Thanks
Krishna

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté

Thanks for helping me to understand AL & UL.

Now I've a follow up question. Does Raja-Bhrasta Yoga happens only when AL resides with lord of UL. Or we can use the normal conditions of aspects, parivartana's etc. I hope this can be applied only in D1.

Let your research begin and you tell us...

iti śivaṁ