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Thread: An atheist advaitist Hindu

  1. #11
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    Re: An atheist advaitist Hindu

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté


    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    By whose fear everything works in this universe with so much mathematical precision and without fail ? How does everything in this universe "know" the laws that apply to it and how does it follow those laws if they have no consciousness ?
    We find this fear (bhaya) called out in the kaṭha upaniṣad (2.3.3).

    That said the pickle one ends up with regarding this consciousness is they think it parallels the conscious thinking of a human being. This causes many some consternation.

    iti śiva
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #12
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    Re: An atheist advaitist Hindu

    Namaste Aupmanyav,

    Quote Originally Posted by aupmanyav View Post
    Energy does not really has intelligence, but it reacts to situations in particular ways. For example, light and gravity bend towards the presence of massive bodies. One can term this as natural behavior of energy or property, but can this be taken as intelligence?
    Let's analyse this :

    light and gravity bend towards the presence of massive bodies.
    How does "Light" identify the "presence" of massive bodies ? If Light has no intelligence, it cannot differentiate between the presence or absence of any object. It cannot differentiate itself from other objects in the universe in absence of intelligence. Energy flows from higher potential to the lower potential and flow stops when the potential difference becomes zero. If energy is truly un-intelligent (without consciousness), it cannot change its behaviour with changing circumstances because for understanding that situation has changed and for knowing how to react (even instinctively), there has to be intelligence.

    For being able to differentiate that one exists different from others or for being able to react to any stimuli, there has to be intelligence (it may be at very very low level but it must exist).

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  3. #13
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    Re: An atheist advaitist Hindu

    Namaste,

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    We find this fear (bhaya) called out in the kaṭha upaniṣad (2.3.3) That said the pickle one ends up with regarding this consciousness is they think it parallels the conscious thinking of a human being. This causes many some consternation.
    Yes. However, let's assume that everything in this universe is matter/energy released at the time of big bang and there is no consciousness in either matter or energy. The reality is that this world is full of intelligent animals and humans and and many conscious objects. So, this will lead us to this Truth :

    Matter/Energy which have no consciousness/intelligence give birth to Consciousness. Or we may say that Matter/Energy/Consciousness are convertible into each other or these are essentially the same.

    What does the "Bhaya" expressed in Kathopanishad tell us ? That there is some regulating authority ... otherwise, if there was no regulating authority, even if things had consciousness, they would not have acted exactly as per rules as it is a known fact that in absence of regulatory authority's fear, intelligent beings don't always act as per rules.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: An atheist advaitist Hindu

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Yes. Where will the Big Bang take place and where would the released energy exist? That is a very good pointer.
    Space is not something detached from energy and cannot be taken in isolation. I would point to 'Zero Point energy'.

    "Zero-point energy, also called quantum vacuum zero-point energy, is the lowest possible energy that a quantum mechanical physical system may have; it is the energy of its ground state. All quantum mechanical systems undergo fluctuations even in their ground state and have an associated zero-point energy, a consequence of their wave-like nature. The uncertainty principle requires every physical system to have a zero-point energy greater than the minimum of its classical potential well. This results in motion even at absolute zero. For example, liquid helium does not freeze under atmospheric pressure at any temperature because of its zero-point energy." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy

    Space (Akasha) and energy are created simultaneously. One is not without the other. Such is the law of the universe, Ritam; or the property of what exists, Brahman. The virtual particles which pop in and out of existence have their own energy and space.
    "Paropakaram punyaya, papaya parapeedanam."
    (Helping others is merit, causing pain is sin)

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    Re: An atheist advaitist Hindu

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    Consider no-thing-ness to bring a richer understanding to this sūkta.
    Yes, that is an important point to consider. Even the Nasadiya Sukta says:

    सतॊबन्धुमसति निरविन्दन्हृदि प्रतीष्या कवयॊ मनीषा
    Satobandhumasati niravindanhridi pratishya kavayo manisha
    (The sages who have searched their hearts with wisdom know that which is is kin to that which is not.)

    What is the relation between existence and non-existence? Is existence only a counter-part of non-existence? Are we seeing existence and non-existence only from our own faulty perspective of thinginess?
    "Paropakaram punyaya, papaya parapeedanam."
    (Helping others is merit, causing pain is sin)

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    Re: An atheist advaitist Hindu

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan
    Quote Originally Posted by devotee
    By whose fear everything works in this universe with so much mathematical precision and without fail? How does everything in this universe "know" the laws that apply to it and how does it follow those laws if they have no consciousness?
    We find this fear (bhaya) called out in the kaṭha upaniṣad (2.3.3).
    It is not any fear. It is ritam, the way 'what exists' (Brahman) is. And there is no second to Brahman. So, how can there be 'bhaya'? 'Bhaya' of what? IMHO, it is more of a poetic expression.
    "Paropakaram punyaya, papaya parapeedanam."
    (Helping others is merit, causing pain is sin)

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    Re: An atheist advaitist Hindu

    namaste,

    Quote Originally Posted by aupmanyav View Post
    Space is not something detached from energy and cannot be taken in isolation. I would point to 'Zero Point energy'.

    "Zero-point energy, also called quantum vacuum zero-point energy, is the lowest possible energy that a quantum mechanical physical system may have; it is the energy of its ground state. All quantum mechanical systems undergo fluctuations even in their ground state and have an associated zero-point energy, a consequence of their wave-like nature. The uncertainty principle requires every physical system to have a zero-point energy greater than the minimum of its classical potential well. This results in motion even at absolute zero. For example, liquid helium does not freeze under atmospheric pressure at any temperature because of its zero-point energy." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy

    Space (Akasha) and energy are created simultaneously. One is not without the other. Such is the law of the universe, Ritam; or the property of what exists, Brahman. The virtual particles which pop in and out of existence have their own energy and space.
    As I understand it, "Zero Point Energy" states that even vacuum (which is considered empty) is filled with some energy. That is not the issue here. What we want to understand here is "What is space ? Are Energy and space convertible into each other ?"

    That is : When the Big Bang took place, did it create space and energy together ? Can we create space by using some quantity of energy ? Or can we crunch space to create energy ?

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: An atheist advaitist Hindu

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    If energy is truly un-intelligent (without consciousness), it cannot change its behaviour with changing circumstances because for understanding that situation has changed and for knowing how to react (even instinctively), there has to be intelligence.
    This is brought about by our act of observation. That is the basis of the 'double-slit' experiment, when two photons passing through two adjacent slits create an interference pattern. If one photon is observed, there is no interference pattern.

    "In the basic version of this experiment, a coherent light source such as a laser beam illuminates a plate pierced by two parallel slits, and the light passing through the slits is observed on a screen behind the plate. The wave nature of light causes the light waves passing through the two slits to interfere, producing bright and dark bands on the screen—a result that would not be expected if light consisted of classical particles. However, the light is always found to be absorbed at the screen at discrete points, as individual particles (not waves), the interference pattern appearing via the varying density of these particle hits on the screen. Furthermore, versions of the experiment that include detectors at the slits find that each detected photon passes through one slit (as would a classical particle), and not through both slits (as would a wave). These results demonstrate the principle of wave–particle duality." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment

    In simple language, if we observe one photon as particle, the other photon changes into a wave. Brahman does not give up its secrets. That is the basis of the principle of uncertainty. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_theory
    "Paropakaram punyaya, papaya parapeedanam."
    (Helping others is merit, causing pain is sin)

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    Re: An atheist advaitist Hindu

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    That is : When the Big Bang took place, did it create space and energy together? Can we create space by using some quantity of energy? Or can we crunch space to create energy?
    In case of the Big-Bang theory, we do not know what happened before inflation or we can say the maddening expansion - the expansion of space in the early universe at a rate much faster than the speed of light (the inflationary epoch lasted from 10 raised to power −36 seconds after the Big Bang to sometime between 10 raised to power −33 and 10 raised to power −32 seconds). But there are other theories (Many-worlds interpretation). In modern physics, it is not considered a weird idea. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-un...interpretation
    "Paropakaram punyaya, papaya parapeedanam."
    (Helping others is merit, causing pain is sin)

  10. #20
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    Re: An atheist advaitist Hindu

    Simple Questions to Aupmanyav ji...

    How Engery had been converted into Mass? Can any scientist produce Mass from Engery?

    And about Big Bang. Who ignited it? Your science itself says that work can't be done without external action. So what is the cause of big bang and what's that thing which started big bang?
    Last edited by hinduism♥krishna; 30 June 2014 at 05:50 AM.

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