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Thread: Vishnu or Krishna?

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    Vishnu or Krishna?

    Hari Bol!
    I offer my humble obeisances to Sri Guru and Sri Gauranga.

    Oh, i feel so ignorant as i ask this, what is the major differences between Vishnu and Krishna, what is the difference between asking for Krishna and asking for Vishnu. Who is really the supreme supreme and can anybody provide some scriptures to explain this, thank you

    EDIT: Please forgive my insolence above, for i am a very ignorant being.
    My real question should be: What is the difference between Gaudiya Vaishnavsim and Vaishnavsim, if Krsna and Vishnu are one, why are there two sects?

    Jai Sri Radhe-Syam!
    Last edited by Samraat Bhismadeva Maurya; 02 July 2014 at 01:56 AM.

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    Re: Vishnu or Krishna?

    Pranam Maurya.

    I feel that you shouldn't have asked this . At one point 'supremacy game'* among Vishnu and Shiva is accepted but between vishnu and Krishna, never!

    According to Scriptural POV, according to Bhagavata Purana and all other Puranas including Vishnu Purana, Krishna is amsha/Kalavatar of Vishnu. Many times Krishna is identified with Narayana/Vishnu. They're one, no any difference. Do you remember at the time of birth and death of Krishna, he resumes his original form of chaturbhuja Vishnu. Actually Vishnu with four hands took birth to Devaki.Later vishnu transformed himself. Krishna is nothing but a transformation of vishnu into another vishnu with human like two arms. He did this at the time of his birth when Devaki requested him to become human like child . In Bhagavad Gita too, when Arjuna realised him as a God, he addressed him by saying all pervading Vishnu. So it's very clear from Scriptures that Vishnu with four arms is the original form of Krishna. Krishna form was temporary when he was doing Lila on the earth. But Vishnu form with four arms is permanent. He's Narayana. Nara + Ayana, whose ayana(Home) is NAra(water), who's resting on the sea with his consort Lakshmi.

    Thank You
    Last edited by hinduism♥krishna; 02 July 2014 at 02:38 AM.

  3. #3

    Re: Vishnu or Krishna?

    Quote Originally Posted by hinduism♥krishna View Post
    Pranam Maurya.

    I feel that you shouldn't have asked this . At one point 'supremacy game'* among Vishnu and Shiva is accepted but between vishnu and Krishna, never!

    According Scriptural POV, according to Bhagavata, Krishna is amsha/Kalavatar of Vishnu. Many times Krishna is identified with Narayana/Vishnu. They're one, no any difference. Do you remember at the time of birth and death of Krishna, he resumes his original form of chaturbhuja Vishnu. Actually Vishnu with four hands took birth to Devaki.Later vishnu transformed himself. Krishna is nothing but a transformation of vishnu into another vishnu with human like two arms. He did this at the time of his birth when Devaki requested him to become human like child . In Bhagavad Gita too, when Arjuna realised him as a God, he addressed him by saying all pervading Vishnu.

    Thank You

    *Child Game
    Pranam

    this is how I see it as well. So on what basis would you say do Srila Prabhupada and other Gaudiya vaishnavas teach that Krishna is source of all incarnations and emanations, Vishnu/Narayana included? I have read where SP says that the two-armed form of Krishna is supreme.

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    Re: Difference between Gaudiya Vaishnavisim and Vaishnavisim?

    Hari Bol!

    I had a bad feeling about asking this, i hope all of you may forgive me for such a question ):

    I offer my humble apologies.

    Thank you for the answer, I had heard and knew that Krsna and Vishnu are one, but my real question was, if they are the same, then why is there Vaishnavisim and Gaudiya Vaishnavisim, shouldn't they be one? the question should've been what is the difference between Gaudiya Vaishnavisim and Vaishnavisim.

    I'll change it.

    The question here was worded very badly and i had delivered the question wrong, still, it goes to show how far away I am to god, i am a very fallen soul ):

    Please forgive me.
    Jai Sri Radhe-Syam

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    Re: Vishnu or Krishna?

    Quote Originally Posted by Samraat Bhismadeva Maurya View Post
    My real question should be: What is the difference between Gaudiya Vaishnavsim and Vaishnavsim, if Krsna and Vishnu are one, why are there two sects?
    Namaskar MAURYA

    We should not believe them different sects. The worship of Krishna is nothing but worshiping Vishnu in the form of krishna who has peacock feather on his head. There are many avatara of Vishnu.

    Gaudiya Vaishnawism and Vaishnawism are different sects not because Vishnu and Krishna are different. They are different bacause of their philosophical interpretations of Shastras. Gaudiyas think that Krishna isn't a Avatara while Vaishnawas think Krishna is Avatara of Vishnu. Traditional Vaishnawas don't condemn worship of any other god like Shiva but Gaudiyas do. Traditional Vaishnawas believe Vishnu and Shiva are one however Gaudiyas do not. Traditional Vaishnawism of Adi Shankara which is much older than any other Vaishnawa sect like of Madhvacharya, teaches that Atma and Brahman are one and we should worship Vishnu thinking the self as all-pervding Vishnu while Gaudiyas have a different theory- Achintya Bhedabheda, which is not followed by mainstream Vaishnawism. There are such things which makes Vaishnawism different from Gaudiyism.

    You asked for relation between Krishna and Vishnu. If you want scriptural references I can post them.

    Hari Narayana

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    Re: Vishnu or Krishna?

    Quote Originally Posted by Samraat Bhismadeva Maurya View Post
    can anybody provide some scriptures to explain this, thank you
    You asked for scriptural supports to explain who's Krishna. Okay, I give you some scriptural quotes proving Krishna is none other than Vishnu and he's part/Avatara of Vishnu/Narayana. These verses will surely help you to know the fact. [ Note: Being Amsha/Part doesn't mean it is lower, unlike Modern sects consider ]

    =====>>>
    एतौ भगवतः साक्षात् हरेर्नारायणस्य हि ।
    अवतीर्णाविहांशेन वसुदेवस्य वेश्मनि ॥ Bhagavata 10.43.२३ ॥

    Meaning: These two ( Krishna and Balarama ) are Avatara of Hari himself. They are descended here as parts of Narayana in the home of Vasudeva.


    अप्यद्य विष्णोर्मनुजत्वमीयुषो
    भारावताराय भुवो निजेच्छया ।Bhagavata 10.38.10
    Meaning: I am going to see the Supreme Lord Viṣṇu, who by His own will has now assumed a humanlike form ( Krishna form ) to relieve the earth of her burden.

    प्रधानपुरुषावाद्यौ जगद्धेतू जगत्पती ।
    अवतीर्णौ जगत्यर्थे स्वांशेन बलकेशवौ ॥ ३२ ॥

    Meaning: Primeval Purusha ( Brahman ) and Prakruti-Maya which is the origin cause and master of the world has descended here by its parts in the form of Balarama and Krishna. [ Krishna is the representation of Purusha and Balarama as Prakruti-Maya ]


    भूमेः सुरेतरवरूथविमर्दितायाः ।
    क्लेशव्ययाय कलया सितकृष्णकेशः ॥ भागवत पूरण २.७.२६ ॥

    To destroy evils , Brahman as dark ( krishna ) and white hair ( balarama ) , will take birth by a ansha ( part ). [ In vishnu purana as well, same thing is stated ]


    ====>>> All these verses clearly indicates that Krishna is a part and Avatara (Kalavatara) of Narayana or Vishnu.


    Myself hinduism♥krishna, advaitian vaishnawa follower of Janardana-Dattatreya Vaishnawa Sampradaya.
    Last edited by hinduism♥krishna; 02 July 2014 at 04:27 AM.

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    Re: Vishnu or Krishna?

    Quote Originally Posted by Samraat Bhismadeva Maurya View Post
    Hari Bol!

    My real question should be: What is the difference between Gaudiya Vaishnavsim and Vaishnavsim, if Krsna and Vishnu are one, why are there two sects?

    Jai Sri Radhe-Syam!

    Namaste
    The difference is Vaishnavas follow Vedas and Puranas as written by VedaVyasa while gaudiya vaishnavas follow books like Chaitanya charitamrita which are neither puranas nor vedas but self professed versions of the concerned authors. And while Vaishnavas use sanskrit hymns in accordance with our sanatana dharma gaudiya vaishnavas use their own versions of bengali songs and also expect non bengalis to sing them and treat them in par with vedas and also have their own versions of Puranas where they take only things that suit their philosophy

  8. #8

    Re: Vishnu or Krishna?

    Samraat Bhismadeva Maurya prabhu,

    Dandavats,


    Vishnu and Krishna are inconceivable one and different. This is the philosophy of Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Acintya beda abeda tattva.


    http://jessica-zanello.tumblr.com/po...lila-chapter-5

    A break down of the expansions and plenary expansions of Krishna is given above.



    My real question should be: What is the difference between Gaudiya Vaishnavsim and Vaishnavsim, if Krsna and Vishnu are one, why are there two sects
    Each plenary expansion has a different function, Krsna is eternally expanding in unlimited forms for more Lila. Each sect of religion, not just Vaishnavism have different approach to God, some like to worship God in awe and reverence, this is particularly common in more traditional sects of South Indian Vaishnavism. Others develop a relationship with the divine through Love and play, this is Vrndavana Bhakti, prem bhakti. Some want to be God, krsna facilitates this desire with nirguna brahman. Some want material success, so they worship Ganesh, although that's not his only purpose, Sri Ganesh is also removing obstacles to Bhakti and sadhana. The Vedas and the diversity of potency's and personalities are all facilitating the desire of all sentient beings in the phenomenal world, and also the absolute world, nothing is independent, everything serves a purpose, even krsna himslef is not independent, he creates rasa and prem with His devotees, like when Yasoda bound Him, krsna allows the devotee to bind Him, to control Him, even to chastise Him, its his lila , His wish his will .

    To say Vishnu, Ganesh, Shiva, Narayana, Rama are all one and the same with no difference is not accepted by the Bhakti school of Gaudiya Vaishnavism.

    The Siddhanta of the acintya bed abeda tattva is that its not just one, reality has diversity, both in the phenomenal world and the absolute world.

    Ys

    Md

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    Re: Vishnu or Krishna?

    Namaste
    Quote Originally Posted by markandeya 108 dasa View Post
    Vishnu and Krishna are inconceivable one and different. This is the philosophy of Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Acintya beda abeda tattva.
    As far as I know it is not said so according to Gaudiya Vaishnava philosophy.
    Gaudiya Vaishnavas say that a living being, jiva, is inconceivable one and different from the Lord. It is not said that one form of the Supreme Lord, Vishnu, is inconceivable one and different from other form of the Supreme Lord, Krishna.


    regards

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    Re: Vishnu or Krishna?

    Namaste
    Quote Originally Posted by ganeshamylord View Post
    Namaste
    The difference is Vaishnavas follow Vedas and Puranas as written by VedaVyasa while gaudiya vaishnavas follow books like Chaitanya charitamrita which are neither puranas nor vedas but self professed versions of the concerned authors. And while Vaishnavas use sanskrit hymns in accordance with our sanatana dharma gaudiya vaishnavas use their own versions of bengali songs and also expect non bengalis to sing them and treat them in par with vedas and also have their own versions of Puranas where they take only things that suit their philosophy
    That's not true. Like you're saying that Gaudiya Vaishnavas do not accept Shruti scriptures!
    Gaudiya Vaishnavas accept all Shruti scriptures, 4 Vedas and their corresponding constituent parts, namely Samhitas, Brahmanas, Aranyakas and Upanishads!
    They also accept virtually all Smriti scriptures as well, Puranas, Itihasas, Pancaratras, Dharma shastras, various Samhitas such as Brahma-samhita, Tantras, ... etc.


    regards

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