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Thread: Leather, meat and rennet ?

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    Leather, meat and rennet ?

    Hello

    First i want to say sorry i know there are other thread in this subject but i still want to make this thread and maybe get new inputs and i don't want to be ignorant and to change my fault.

    I have been a vegan in the past but has know started to eat Chicken (only as animal protein and rarely fish). And i don't use leather.

    Is it a must to stop eating chicken ? its not often and i try to buy local and if possibly Organic so the animal haven't been to much hurt. I have been at dinners at my Muslims friends and they serve halal chicken i have been eating it. Can i do that ?

    An Indian restaurant have a saraswati shrine in the restureant but also serve fish, chicken and lamb. The local Indian food/item store the owner is a Hindu and sells hindu religious items but also sells cow meat that also is halal. I don't understand that ?

    I do eat cheese but i try to avoid rennet and if i don't know i wont choose if its contain rennet, but if i was eating out with friend at the pizzeria and i don't know if its rennet in the cheese and i eat it how will it effect me as a Hindu will it be a great sin ? same goes for animal gelatin.

    And if iam drinking milk, eat yogurt or other product i do eat this but i will, should if ? the cow will be slaughter when there's is no more use, will it be a sin for me to buy milk ?

    And killing mosquito, flies ? worms when digging ? should i feel bad about this ? Have pets that's are giving meat ?

    And how about leather I have seen many in India use leather (bags, shoes, carseats, belt) even Hindu, how is the view on that ? someone from India to share its thought ? its different leather more accepted like the use of got and camel leather in shoes ? My self i buy Jeans sometimes its use leather badge which i take away before use (i order online so not always i know if there a leather or not) would this be a sin also for me ?

    I am thinking about this things alo't.

    Thanks

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    Re: Leather, meat and rennet ?

    Dear Alekander ji,

    Namaste,

    Basically I feel its up to you to choose what you feel makes you happy.

    For me I have follow some rules that is:

    1)Pure Vegetarian

    2)No leather

    3)No Silk Sarees

    4)No Rennet

    5)Avoid eating out as much as possible

    6)No musical instruments at home that use leather

    7)Only use cosmetics that are certified against animal testing



    These are the rules I follow but I do not impose it or expect anyone to be like me..cos some of us might follow strict rules but if we start finding fault that others do this and do not do this or others are hypocrites than it defeats the whole purpose of looking for an more Ahimsic way of life.

    So be happy do what you feel is most conducive for you and what your body could cope with.

    Regards

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    Re: Leather, meat and rennet ?

    Namaste Alekandar,

    I agree with Renuka ji to a great extent. In my opinion,

    a) All Hindus are not vegetarian. So, being a non-vegetarian doesn't make you a non-Hindu.
    b) Ahimsaa is to be practised but carefully. Why ? You can never be a 100 % non-killer and survive. Every second, your system is killing billions of bacteria which try to act on our body. Every time you take food, you are killing billions of bacteria in cooking, digesting etc. Yes, if you can feel the pains that anything goes into for using the stuff for your food, it is better to avoid that. You can still eat and remain a Hindu but it is not good for you spiritually. We can see chicken being killed and the pain it suffers while being killed, so I won't advise eating chicken. However, if I am stranded in a place where, I can't survive without chicken then may be I would start eating chicken because either I kill myself (which is himsa) or I kill the chicken (which is another himsa) and as humans are better evolved for spiritual growth, I would prefer saving the human body than a chicken body.

    c) Mosquitoes and other insects which are harmful and dangerous to our body should be killed as it is our dharma to save the body that we have against its natural enemies. When I fall sick and I take medicines I am killing billions of bacteria to save this body but this himsa is unavoidable as either I kill my body or kill the enemy bacteria, mosquitoes, animals, human enemies ... my human dharma is to kill those unless I reach a stage where I can control these beings with my spiritual strength.

    d) Leather made of naturally dead animals are ok to use. However, if painful killing of animals is resorted to get leather/hide and if I come to know of it, I would avoid it.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: Leather, meat and rennet ?

    Vannakkam,

    I'll echo the words above and try to add some.

    re rennet - Here in North America 20 years ago it was difficult to find cheese without rennet. Not it's difficult to find cheese with rennet. Back then, rennet suppliers had long term contracts with cheesemakers. But that changed when a cheaper (vegetarian) product became available. Now this is mainly just for common cheeses. I'm not sure about the finer cheeses as I never buy them.

    Leather - non leather products like belts are fairly available, and there is no way to trace it back to the source, so it's fairly easy. There also vegan on-line stores.

    But we never really know about stuff. Sometimes our products are made from materials that are gotten by exploitation of people (cheap labour) so even then, a simple shirt may have some attached karma, looking at the big picture.

    All we can do is try our best.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Leather, meat and rennet ?

    Quote Originally Posted by renuka View Post
    Dear Alekander ji,

    Namaste,

    Basically I feel its up to you to choose what you feel makes you happy.

    For me I have follow some rules that is:

    1)Pure Vegetarian

    2)No leather

    3)No Silk Sarees

    4)No Rennet

    5)Avoid eating out as much as possible

    6)No musical instruments at home that use leather

    7)Only use cosmetics that are certified against animal testing



    These are the rules I follow but I do not impose it or expect anyone to be like me..cos some of us might follow strict rules but if we start finding fault that others do this and do not do this or others are hypocrites than it defeats the whole purpose of looking for an more Ahimsic way of life.

    So be happy do what you feel is most conducive for you and what your body could cope with.

    Regards
    Thank you

    I do all of those rulse, exept i eat chicken and bÿ mistake rennet (but its rarely, when i shop for my self i buy without). And if i order clothes online i dont know always if there is leather (like jeans).

    I have been vegan in the past, but i feels its realy hard. I dont no what to choose in the grocery store, i have problems find something to eat at breakfast and so on.

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    Re: Leather, meat and rennet ?

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Namaste Alekandar,

    I agree with Renuka ji to a great extent. In my opinion,

    a) All Hindus are not vegetarian. So, being a non-vegetarian doesn't make you a non-Hindu.
    b) Ahimsaa is to be practised but carefully. Why ? You can never be a 100 % non-killer and survive. Every second, your system is killing billions of bacteria which try to act on our body. Every time you take food, you are killing billions of bacteria in cooking, digesting etc. Yes, if you can feel the pains that anything goes into for using the stuff for your food, it is better to avoid that. You can still eat and remain a Hindu but it is not good for you spiritually. We can see chicken being killed and the pain it suffers while being killed, so I won't advise eating chicken. However, if I am stranded in a place where, I can't survive without chicken then may be I would start eating chicken because either I kill myself (which is himsa) or I kill the chicken (which is another himsa) and as humans are better evolved for spiritual growth, I would prefer saving the human body than a chicken body.

    c) Mosquitoes and other insects which are harmful and dangerous to our body should be killed as it is our dharma to save the body that we have against its natural enemies. When I fall sick and I take medicines I am killing billions of bacteria to save this body but this himsa is unavoidable as either I kill my body or kill the enemy bacteria, mosquitoes, animals, human enemies ... my human dharma is to kill those unless I reach a stage where I can control these beings with my spiritual strength.

    d) Leather made of naturally dead animals are ok to use. However, if painful killing of animals is resorted to get leather/hide and if I come to know of it, I would avoid it.

    OM
    I do feel pain when cow's, pigs is being mistreated in a bad way. I dont know why i dont feel that pain when etaing chicken ? its strange but i do choose much as i can oragnic that can had a good life and can live life outdoor. I dont knowe sometime i feel a voice tells me dont eat meat at all live ''clean'' but then when im eating out or shooping food or making dinner that voice ist not there and i sometime eat chicken, but its not im etaing it evrey day i do eat alot off veg to. Other meat prducut make me feel sick i dont like the look i dont like the smell.

    Thank you ''is our dharma to save the body'' ''I kill myself (which is himsa)'' i have never thuhgt it that way, it was like a light lid up when i read those words.

    I dont like the use of leather, and if i buy jeans with it i take it away nefore use. Leahter shoes thats made of camel och goat is that from already dead ?

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    Re: Leather, meat and rennet ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    Vannakkam,

    I'll echo the words above and try to add some.

    re rennet - Here in North America 20 years ago it was difficult to find cheese without rennet. Not it's difficult to find cheese with rennet. Back then, rennet suppliers had long term contracts with cheesemakers. But that changed when a cheaper (vegetarian) product became available. Now this is mainly just for common cheeses. I'm not sure about the finer cheeses as I never buy them.

    Leather - non leather products like belts are fairly available, and there is no way to trace it back to the source, so it's fairly easy. There also vegan on-line stores.

    But we never really know about stuff. Sometimes our products are made from materials that are gotten by exploitation of people (cheap labour) so even then, a simple shirt may have some attached karma, looking at the big picture.

    All we can do is try our best.

    Aum Namasivaya
    I dont like chees that much, sometime i buy hard cheese here in Sweden its still common to use rennet (i buy Finnish product over ther is a law to not use rennet). Panner is not common but i do find it sometime in indian stores i love it. But i sometimes by mistake are eating prudct with rennet (bought it in rush or thugt it was rennet free, or eating pizza or at a dinner party). It was not that along ago i touhgt chocolate was free from animal product but then i read (here) that they withning the suger with bone and that milk serum colud contain rennet.

    Vegan clothes are expensive ? or here they are i dont have alot of money now these days. And i do feel strange do wear etnic fabric indian clothes. So its wesetern modern clothes, if i dont buy thet wo make the clothes wont get nothing or i buy it they get something but under bad work.

    To try our best is that we can do : ) thanks

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    Re: Leather, meat and rennet ?

    Namaste Alekander Ji,

    I am a Vegetarian by choice. My food consists of plant based & dairy based sources.

    Having said that , off late this is my view on vegetarianism.

    Everything with life has a body & breathes. I do believe that plants have life too. So ahimsa is not the reason for my vegetarianism. Vegetarian food is a more balanced food in terms of trace minerals & in helping me keep an even temperament (satvic life style).

    Every living thing has a dharma . Our life experiences enrich our 'inner-self' in each and every reincarnation by executing our dharma. A hunter's dharma is to hunt & eat the kill. He enriches his 'self' by executing this dharma. The animal he kills simply takes another body (death is merely a ritual where 'self' changes its body). A Kshatriya's (soldier) dharma is to defend & fight - and killing/violence is part and parcel of his dharma. He is passionate & reactive to his environment. Accordingly he consumes rajasic (including meat) food. I do not see anything wrong with this.

    Couple of years ago, I read a narrative in Bhagwan Ramana Maharishi's life. In the parts of India , where his ashram was located , robbers had a specific method. They used to pelt stones on the roof, and when folks come outside , they were assaulted, bound and their house was robbed. This happened to the ashram once and Bhagwan was hit with stones also. But he was not perturbed. When someone asked Bhagwan regarding this, he mentioned that 'they were practicing their dharma. Don’t get upset at them'. It was difficult for me to understand Bhagwans's statement at that time. Now I do.

    In my dictionary the word 'adharmic' is a meaningless word. We are all in different stages of our reincarnation cycles and as a result adorn different dharma. A Kshatriya's dharma could be repugnant to a Brahmana(priest, teacher) . Who are we to say that an Eskimo needs to be a vegetarian , when all they could find it meat? IMHO, such a person does nothing wrong when he eats meat.

    We go thru many reincarnation cycles before we enter a yogic life , where vegetarian food helps immensely. Not everyone in their present life is cut out for yogic life - but ultimately we will get there. One may go thru several yogic life cycles before realizing Self. We just need to be patient. The journey we have embarked runs its course in billions of years - why sweat over a puny 100 year lifecycle?

    I believe that one's interest in Hinduism/Buddhism/Sikhism etc. portends that they are entering a yogic life cycle. If your medical condition , survival requirements , monetary situation etc. forces you to choose certain type of food /cloth , you should go ahead and adjust accordingly. Living a full healthy life , practicing your dharma with excellence and enriching your soul is far more important in our journey than self-imposed diet related sufferance.

    I will not micro analyze this with ahimsa , leather clothes etc.. , and get confused over this.

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