Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 37

Thread: Mind - Everything?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    June 2006
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    572
    Rep Power
    820

    Mind - Everything?

    This message is actually a question on another thread posted by Amrut!

    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...2&postcount=21

    Very beautiful message and exhaustive information regarding the power of mind and also its weakness! It cannot go quite, disappear from the field of action and it can act either positive or negative! Lets do some higher order thinking and ask our own wisdom and also find if there are any support for these in our shastra

    All sorts of problems starts when mind has nothing left to hold on to. This stillness is frightening as it is a question of existence of mind.
    What you are essentially saying is, the organ ( even if it is subtle) mind has to be given up - if that is not the objective, then mind is not going to rest! So, the stand still state is still the state of 'mind' only - and it is also giving an experience that is something momentary! Calling that 'stand still' experience as 'something new' has to have the 'experiencer' active! IOW, there should be something cognizant of the mind whether it has control over the mind or not! It is not possible for a sense to remove itself and every rational person agree to that and you can remove the 'sense' or bring the sense under control by utilizing something even more subtle - mind is the most subtle organ of jiva and thus we know there is something beyond mind - and that something cannot be recognized or experienced by "mind" regardless of its state - "oscillating or stand still'. With drawl action is for this most subtle conscious vastu and we all happily say, its the "Atma"!

    So, now technically it is the very "Atma" which is always in the statehood of Brahman which alone can give away the imagined "mind", then the quest of practicing something in "Advaita" is superfluous! ( I am bringing this point just to make sure the statement like "Advaita" is not for everyone is irrational and false). A more detailed argument below...

    1. If every sense has to be purified to gain the control of more subtler ones, ( as in Nvrtti), mind is the last sense organ to be conquered - In the complete sequel, it is the Atma that is the actual doer - Not the sense as they are under the control of Atma regardless of the state, stage of reality etc.
    2. The symptom of purification does not give away the sense but only the more subtler gains the control over the next gross ( someone who has pure mind will have pure vak - sweet talk, sama darshana - not that such will become mouth less or speech less or cannot hear and deaf - even the JivanMukta still functions with his senses but all under his total control)
    3. The subtle mind once gained control over, there is nothing left - Its not a stage of progress but the Ultimatum itself - In otherwords, its not the practice of Advaita but the End Goal, the achievement of Advaitam. Once achieved, its Nishkriya state and there is nothing more to practice or do and its the state of bliss!
    4. Equally, any state, stage before the state of Advaitam, is not and should not be called "Advaita" practice! This is now chicken and egg as in advaitam, there cannot be any 'activity" and before "Advaitam" there is no scope for "Advaita"!
    5. The transition stage from "Advaita" to "Advaitam" then will be imaginary with no description or manual as there is no bestower or bestowed! This is the very reason Advaita says, there is nothing happened as in creation for you to overcome that - simply meaning there is no Transition - the counter positive statement is something that is not there as well! ( as in, its just realization, its just awakening, its called Moksha, its Nirvana etc.)

    Summing up, at least for a insignificant human who is bound by senses, the last authority of imagined or unreal or between real and unreal will be the Mind which itself "from the Atman perspective", the actual doer, non existent! So, there is some other agent that "acts" or at least give the opinion of "doer" and that "Doer" alone assumes it require a great resolve to follow "Advaita" to reach the "Advaitam" state!

    Though the entire message is very nice with actual happening events, it is very weak in describing the "doer"ship behind these and also giving out a wrong opinion or conclusion that, Advaita is not for everyone! At least as per the "Advaita", it cannot be gradual progress and it should be the "Advaitam" in a flash! ( like on/off event..either its on or off - be real or in bandha - Gradual mukthi should not be the basis for advaitam at all)

    How do you explain an imagined sense revealing the Advaitam when it cannot!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    71
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    223

    Re: Mind - Everything?

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté


    The answer to this is offered by brahmaṛṣi gauḍapāda-ji . He informs us of the truth from his level of enlightenment.

    This is offered in the māṇdūkaya- kārikā some call it the māṇdūkaya-kārikā of gauḍapāda.

    It is not entry level reading... for some it will uplift, for others more questions will arise.

    iti śiva
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #3
    Join Date
    June 2006
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    572
    Rep Power
    820

    Re: Mind - Everything?

    Namaste Yajvan ji.,

    Reading what you have mentioned gave any uplift to the 'englightment' or message in the link i have posted on the top of the thread? and if the question raised here can have any answer or answer guide it will be interesting to discuss? if you like to share, i request you to please do so.

    I have read and understood the Madhva bhasya on it which leaves no confusion and inspiring and motivating to pursue the Turiya!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    71
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    223

    Re: Mind - Everything?

    hari o
    ~~~~~~
    namasté


    Quote Originally Posted by grames View Post
    Namaste Yajvan ji.,

    Reading what you have mentioned gave any uplift to the 'englightment' or message in the link i have posted on the top of the thread? and if the question raised here can have any answer or answer guide it will be interesting to discuss? if you like to share, i request you to please do so.

    I have read and understood the Madhva bhasya on it which leaves no confusion and inspiring and motivating to pursue the Turiya!
    I am just a bit uncomfortable to discuss ... now why would that be? The concepts are quite profound and not entry level. This in no way suggest that you would not 'get it' , but it does infer that ( IMHO) it would be best suited for the uttara¹ folder of subject matter.

    Now that said brahmaṛṣi gauḍapāda-ji speaks from his most refined and whole level of consciousness on this subject matter. His views are most sublime . Yet many that struggle within our world of duality, opposites, and seemingly apparent contradictions we find in every day life may find this wisdom a bit too esoteric for one's liking.
    Hence my slight ambivalence to hold off.


    iti śiva


    1. uttara - higher, upper, most superior; all suggesting higher wisdom
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  5. #5
    Join Date
    June 2006
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    572
    Rep Power
    820

    Re: Mind - Everything?

    Dear Yajvan ji.,

    I perfectly understand and surely it is not a call for judging anyone of us - the original post was to point out there is a open hole and the claim that advaita is not for everyone is in fact a false statement!

    Hare Krshna!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    June 2012
    Location
    Mumbai
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,210
    Rep Power
    1364

    Re: Mind - Everything?

    Quote Originally Posted by grames View Post
    This message is actually a question on another thread posted by Amrut!

    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...2&postcount=21

    ...<content clipped>

    Namaste Grames ji,

    Thanks for your inputs. I tried to read it but my dumb mind could not understand the following.

    What you are essentially saying is, the organ ( even if it is subtle) mind has to be given up - if that is not the objective, then mind is not going to rest!
    Please clarify what exactly it means in simple language. My english is weak, so I request you to please use Hindi, sanskrit words in bracket.

    Does it simply mean that mind has to be given up, unless you are in the trinity of observer, object of observation and process of observation or duality - observer and object of observer.

    I agree with Yajvan ji that this is very difficult to explain.

    Also note that advait sthiti and advaita approach are different. One enters into advaita and there is a GYAna in a flash (there is no time lag), but this is mano laya. Mind will still arise and then again it will drag you (consciousness - by this time you know that you are not body and mind and you are consciousness). Again thoughts and past life desires pop-up, they dissolve into source via OM again mind rests and goes into samadhi. It is not that only after destroying all desires, one will have first glimpse of samadhi and this state remains permanent. so the first experience is last experience. It is not like like this as per my own experience. By repeated entering into samadhi, finally when all that was dumped into mind sinces ages gets destroyed, then mind finally is destroyed. In everytime, whenever one enters into samadhi, it is in a flash, without time lag only. But to remain in samadhi without any effort permanently happens when mind is destroyed, no desire is left to be fulfilled.

    Grames ji, I have only heard of first verse of Brahma sutra before few years. I have not read it and will not read it until my guru gives me permission. So I am not in a position to comment on what is brahma-sutra and what did Adi Sankara or madhva has written.

    Simple thing is that if mind is not sattvika, then neti-neti or OM meditation (japa) will not be fruitful. So first one has to make mind sattvika, else why would each shastra give pre-requisites? Is is not mentioned in Gita, upanishads and prakatrana granthas? Brahma-jigyasa or moksha as the goal is not enough. moksha has to be the ONLY goal in life and one should be ready to sacrifice everything. To add to it, your mind should support in this decision t renounce mentally or both mentally and physically worldly desires nad responsibilities. If mind is not capable to renounce, there effect will be reverse. It is not due to superiority complex that I am saying it, it is for the good of seeker.

    So, the stand still state is still the state of 'mind' only - and it is also giving an experience that is something momentary!
    and


    Though the entire message is very nice with actual happening events, it is very weak in describing the "doer"ship behind these and also giving out a wrong opinion or conclusion that, Advaita is not for everyone! At least as per the "Advaita", it cannot be gradual progress and it should be the "Advaitam" in a flash! ( like on/off event..either its on or off - be real or in bandha - Gradual mukthi should not be the basis for advaitam at all)

    How do you explain an imagined sense revealing the Advaitam when it cannot!
    I think that you have misunderstood me, but still I await your explanation on first line.

    Hari OM
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  7. #7
    Join Date
    June 2012
    Location
    Mumbai
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,210
    Rep Power
    1364

    Re: Mind - Everything?

    hello and namaste,

    Grames ji, just one more request. Do you practice japa or chant any mantra. I do not need to know which mantra you chant, but would be happy to know it .

    If yes, then since how many years? and

    what is the time you devote to chanting name in isolation. I do not want to know in group chanting where chanting is done loud or a swami is chanting a mantra and people simply listen to it.

    Since this is a personal question and not all open up like me, I can understand if you choose not to disclose.

    OM
    Last edited by yajvan; 25 July 2014 at 09:05 AM.
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  8. #8
    Join Date
    June 2012
    Location
    Mumbai
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,210
    Rep Power
    1364

    Re: Mind - Everything?

    hello and namaste,
    Sorry grames ji, but one more question. Is this thread about finding reference in shastras or trying to understand the process of meditation and that advaita can be practiced for everybody.

    OM
    Last edited by yajvan; 25 July 2014 at 09:04 AM.
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

  9. #9
    Join Date
    June 2006
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    572
    Rep Power
    820

    Re: Mind - Everything?

    Dear Amrut.,

    I do nama japa and its for really long time . Wondering your intend behind this curiosity but believe me, whether you are chanting in a group or solo, Krshna is very personal and intimate as you connect! The experience of Krshna is sublime and i don't care about any Jada vastu or their promotion demotion of control when He graces His Prema!

    The line for which you seek clarification is very simple...in your other message and also here, you are implying MIND has to be won over or given up or Soul has to establish itself over! But, i am seeking your acknowledgement that, MIND Is never the experiencer in any states! and that's all about it.

    Hare Krshna!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    June 2012
    Location
    Mumbai
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,210
    Rep Power
    1364

    Re: Mind - Everything?

    Quote Originally Posted by grames View Post
    Dear Amrut.,

    I do nama japa and its for really long time . Wondering your intend behind this curiosity
    Namaste,

    Nice to know

    The reason behind asking this question is that only when you are alone, chant a mantra then you will understand your own mind better. It is mantra - Silence - Mantra and this flow should remain continuous.

    Have you experienced that mind sinks into the source of mantra? Are you aware of silence between two mantra-s? what happens, does the form of Krishna remain?

    The line for which you seek clarification is very simple...in your other message and also here, you are implying MIND has to be won over or given up or Soul has to establish itself over! But, i am seeking your acknowledgement that, MIND Is never the experiencer in any states! and that's all about it.
    What I say is that mind has to be transcended.

    If mind is not the experiencer then who is?

    from pArmArthika level, you are correct, but when it comes to us, who try to rise above mind and mAyA, mind does experience. We talk in laymen terms and without any polemical approach, if I wish to progress and meditate, then what will you suggest that I should do? What is the meditative journey of advaita vedantin?

    Since you say, that my thinking that advaita is not for everybody is illogical, I request you to please explain why you think, again without entering into polemical debate. Please explain me in simple words. I am a dumb guy.

    OM
    Only God Is Truth, Everything Else Is Illusion - Ramakrishna
    Total Surrender of Ego to SELF is Real Bhakti - Ramana Maharshi

    Silence is the study of the scruptures. Meditation is the continuous thinking of Brahman which is to be meditated upon. The complete negation of both by knowledge is the vision of truth – sadAcAra-14 of Adi SankarAcArya

    namah SivAya vishnurUpAya viShNave SivarUpiNe, MBh, vanaparva, 3.39.76

    Sanskrit Dict | MW Dict | Gita Super Site | Hindu Dharma

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Creation and Advaita !
    By nirotu in forum Advaita
    Replies: 174
    Last Post: 28 April 2015, 10:34 PM
  2. Penances
    By Eric11235 in forum New to Sanatana Dharma
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 04 February 2011, 09:30 PM
  3. Ashtanga Yogam-2 Sandilya Upanishad
    By brahman in forum Advaita
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04 July 2009, 01:23 AM
  4. Meditation and Concentration
    By atanu in forum Jnana
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 28 October 2007, 05:09 AM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06 June 2007, 09:40 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •