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Thread: Analysis of the name 'nArAyanA' for Sri Vishnu

  1. #21

    Re: Analysis of the name 'nArAyanA' for Sri Vishnu

    Quote Originally Posted by Viraja View Post
    I have a small yearbook printed to celebrate the 10th anniversary of some temple and it has the material on how to do Satyanarayana Puja. It says, Skanda purana/rEva kaanda speaks about Satyanarayana Puja. And it says, that this puja is famous at AP and Karnataka sides and that there is a grantha published in Karnataka sides called 'Sateegaavradha Ratnam' which gives this puja procedures!
    Viraja ji, here is a quote from wiki,
    It is told that Satya Nārāṇaya Kathā is in Revā volume of the Skanda Purāṇa. But this volume is devoted to pilgrimages on the valley of river Revā. In Satya Nārāṇaya there is no Revā river. In original Skanda Purāṇa there is nothing like Satya Nārāṇaya. Recent Skanda Purāṇas added it with clear note of its new addition in Skanda.
    Also, in satyanArAyaNa kathA we all know how "Once there lived a Brahmin in Mathura, so poor that he had to live by begging. One day, he could not get even a grain of rice as alms; as he sat under a tree lamenting his misfortune, sage Satyanarayana appeared in the guise of a Fakir....", or something like that, as pointed out in this link, or how in the kathA there is a talk about "..a devout-enough Hindu undertaking a commercial voyage by ship, which was something well, unorthodox!"

    Moreover, wiki says:
    The Puja as it is performed today has its origin in the Syncretism of Hindu and Sufi traditions in Bengal during the Middle ages where the Satya Nārāṇaya of the Hindus became Satya Pir of the Muslims and vice versa.[1]
    At the very least, a Northerner origin of satya-nArAyANa kathA, if not satya-nArAyaNa pUjA itself, is very clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Viraja View Post
    Besides somewhere I read that after Ramavatara, Sri Rama's amsa combined with equal parts of Shiva and Brahma amshas to give Sri Satyanarayana murthi!
    I have no problem at all in any connection between Sri Ram and Narayana. So I will not ask you about the source.

    Hope this puja is for real! I do it every month...
    I also hope so. Though frankly, with all this info available now, I only hope that it could have been originally a "nArAyaNa pUjA" or even a "satya-nArAyaNa pUjA" where the leader of the Navagraha-s, i.e. Surya, along-with the other deities presiding over the graha-s, was worshipped, starting mainly in Northerner places of Saura-tradition. This is because the nava-graha are also worshipped in this pUjA.

    In Andhra we have already seen how Satya Sai Baba led a way which more had to do with syncretism than with regular traditional Hinduism.

    However, to remind the members, this thread isn't about swamy satya-nArAyaNa, and it is also clear that bringing this into the original discussion here is not going to be very helpful.
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

  2. #22
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    Re: Analysis of the name 'nArAyanA' for Sri Vishnu

    Thanks, Ram! I will not stop the puja!

    Gracias,

    Viraja
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

  3. #23
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    Re: Analysis of the name 'nArAyanA' for Sri Vishnu

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalicharan Tuvij View Post
    Namaste,

    Now someone talked about satya-nArAyaNa pUjA. Well, this pUjA or this deity isn't attested in any traditional text or sampradAya. There has already been some research that confirms that satya-nArAyaNa is actually satya-pIra (pIra as in fakeer, sai, sUfI etc) and is a corrupt practice originating in Bengal-Orissa under Mugal influence. One can google "satya pira", or check this link. However, I am no one to pass a judgement here.
    Namaste Kalicharan Ji,

    I assume you have never attended a Satyanarayana Puja.
    *I am not reading the link you gave.

    I have the Puja book with me,which runs into hundreds of pages.Let me make it clear that not a single word of it has any traces of any 'alien' concepts in it.It is a nasty attempt by some rogues to link Lord Narayana with something else and cause pain to Hindus.The Puja procedure itself will show whether it is corrupt as some ignorant claim or truly Hindu in nature.

    The Vrata is a complex one but I'll summarize it in a few words.

    The form of the deity of this vrata is that of Lord Sri Satyanarayana,who has four arms and holds the attributes of Shanka,Chakra,Gada and Padma(very clear He is Lord Sri Vishnu-Narayana).The Lord is invoked into a Kalasha and/or in a Murti.First,Sri Ganesha puja is done and then the Goddess Gauri shaped using turmeric(Haridra) is worshiped.
    Many Devatas are also placed on the Pitha/mantapa and venerated.The Brahmanas chant the Narayana mantras from the Vedas and abhisheka is performed to the Lord.The Vrata has five (Kathas)narratives describing the glory of the Lord,characteristically Puranic in nature,which are heard by the devotees.Archana is performed using names of Lord Vishnu.The Puja involves offering the usual 16 Upacharas or more.

    Broadly,the Puja is similar to most other vratas but has some unique aspects as well.It is absolutely Hindu Vrata-type worship as the Devata is Vedic,the mantras are Vedic,the archana, Upacharas,Kathas are distinctly Hindu.Nobody needs to have any kind of doubt to worship Lord Vishnu after knowing all this.T
    here is not a single thing in the whole Puja which can be proved to be similar to any other religion's practice.Please study the Vrata and decide for yourself.I suggest you to delete that useless link.


    He dances in the golden hall of Chidambaram, Let us worship His rosy anklet girt Feet.

  4. #24
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    Re: Analysis of the name 'nArAyanA' for Sri Vishnu

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalicharan Tuvij View Post
    Viraja ji, here is a quote from wiki,

    Also, in satyanArAyaNa kathA we all know how "Once there lived a Brahmin in Mathura, so poor that he had to live by begging. One day, he could not get even a grain of rice as alms; as he sat under a tree lamenting his misfortune, sage Satyanarayana appeared in the guise of a Fakir....", or something like that, as pointed out in this link, or how in the kathA there is a talk about "..a devout-enough Hindu undertaking a commercial voyage by ship, which was something well, unorthodox!"
    Namaste Kalicharan Ji,

    Your post appeared after I wrote my previous reply.

    I have some questions for you:

    1.Can you prove that there is there a word called 'Fakir' in the Sanskrit version of the Skanda MahaPurana?
    Is Wikipedia a reliable source?Is it absolutely error-free?
    Do you know how wiki pages are written and by whom?

    2.Your 'commercial ship' was actually a boat and people conducted trade by traveling through rivers.
    Does the Katha say they crossed 'so and so oceans in a commercial ship and thus became polluted'?
    How can traveling to places through rivers inside India be considered as unorthodox?


    Moreover, wiki says:

    At the very least, a Northerner origin of satya-nArAyANa kathA, if not satya-nArAyaNa pUjA itself, is very clear.
    Again Wiki?Relying too much on the Wiki-Shastra,eh?
    If a wiki page on Vedas says the Vedas are pagan poems penned down by primitive people who lived in some xyz location,would you accept such an idea or do you believe that the Vedas are Sruti?

    here is a quote from wiki,
    Quote:
    It is told that Satya Nārāṇaya Kathā is in Revā volume of the Skanda Purāṇa. But this volume is devoted to pilgrimages on the valley of river Revā. In Satya Nārāṇaya there is no Revā river.
    Is there any rigid rule in the Puranas that states there has to be a Reva river in Sri Satyanarayana Katha because it is in the Reva Kanda?Say there is no Reva river mentioned in the Katha,so what?Will the world turn upside down?

    I do not understand what you wish to attain by providing some random links from the internet and cast doubts on a Hindu Vrata that is devotedly followed by millions of Hindus?
    Are you secretly wishing that Hindus should give up following this holy Vrata just because some anti-Hindus say that it was related to something else?


    He dances in the golden hall of Chidambaram, Let us worship His rosy anklet girt Feet.

  5. #25

    Re: Analysis of the name 'nArAyanA' for Sri Vishnu

    Quote Originally Posted by Ram11 View Post
    Namaste Kalicharan Ji,

    Your post appeared after I wrote my previous reply.

    I have some questions for you:

    1.Can you prove that there is there a word called 'Fakir' in the Sanskrit version of the Skanda MahaPurana?
    Is Wikipedia a reliable source?Is it absolutely error-free?
    Do you know how wiki pages are written and by whom?

    2.Your 'commercial ship' was actually a boat and people conducted trade by traveling through rivers.
    Does the Katha say they crossed 'so and so oceans in a commercial ship and thus became polluted'?
    How can traveling to places through rivers inside India be considered as unorthodox?
    Namaste Ram,

    Yes I agree wiki is not reliable at all in Hindu studies (notwithstanding my great admiration for how on other subjects wiki manages information and also the 27-or-so old typically nerdy contributors).

    This is evident from the mere fact that wiki wrongly types Satya Nārāyaṇa as Satya Nārāṇaya, lol.

    Again Wiki?Relying too much on the Wiki-Shastra,eh?
    If a wiki page on Vedas says the Vedas are pagan poems penned down by primitive people who lived in some xyz location,would you accept such an idea or do you believe that the Vedas are Sruti?
    I agree here totally. Apart from mere facts (but then propagandists invent even them), wiki-baba is entirely invalid as some kind of evidence in Hindu subjects. This is unfortunate, but true.

    Is there any rigid rule in the Puranas that states there has to be a Reva river in Sri Satyanarayana Katha because it is in the Reva Kanda?Say there is no Reva river mentioned in the Katha,so what?Will the world turn upside down?
    I see Skanda PurANa as a collection of important narratives (in the form of folklores) by the "northerner Hindus" when they separated from the "Southerner Hindus" in a very ancient age (but clearly after the Sata-yuga). So early or late additions, even if conclusively proven so, are still valid parts of the Purana.

    The clinching factor is the presence of SatyaNarayana temple in the South (Andhra). But this just adds to the veracity of the Purana narrative, so nothing special. But, as mentioned by Viraja, it is important to note the connection between SatyaNarayana swamy and Sri RAma there; and also the fact that "Sage" SatyaNarayana stands on His own (as a manifestation of many divines together, including Shiva and BrahmA).
    So this only further strengthens my point that NArAyaNa should not be seen as the proper name of Vishnu, even though as an amsha/ mode / epithet of Vishnu the name nArAyaNa (which is a proper name of Sri Surya) is valid. This was the whole point I was trying to make.
    I do not understand what you wish to attain by providing some random links from the internet and cast doubts on a Hindu Vrata that is devotedly followed by millions of Hindus?
    Are you secretly wishing that Hindus should give up following this holy Vrata just because some anti-Hindus say that it was related to something else?
    You are right here. The Satya PIra is an adaptation (by Muslim converts from Hinduism) of SatyaNarayana and not the other way around. All else is propaganda. There also could be some genuine attempt by some in the medieval ages to bring about a syncretism (in Bengal) between Hinduism and Islam (by mostly making it less painful for newly convert Muslims from Hinduism), but that was clearly not successful, nor was desirable.

    I think it is good that such thing are discussed here so that what is circulating in name of Hinduism, or false information about its practises, is exposed. The wiki false-info was unknown to even me before this thread, but after digging more into this subject it is clear to me that SatyNarayana worship is genuinely Hindu.

    And also that SatyaNarayana worshipped here, is more along the lines of the Sage Satyanarayan (among others: Nara, Hari and Krishna), who even though loosely aligned with Vaishnava paradigm, stands very much on His own.

    Again, the equivalence of NArAyaNa with Ram (and Surya, of Navagraha-s) is more strengthened.
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

  6. #26
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    Re: Analysis of the name 'nArAyanA' for Sri Vishnu

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalicharan Tuvij View Post
    Namaste Ram,

    This is evident from the mere fact that wiki wrongly types Satya Nārāyaṇa as Satya Nārāṇaya, lol.
    Namaste Kalicharan Ji,

    LOL,I did not notice this
    .

    The clinching factor is the presence of SatyaNarayana temple in the South (Andhra). But this just adds to the veracity of the Purana narrative, so nothing special. But, as mentioned by Viraja, it is important to note the connection between SatyaNarayana swamy and Sri RAma there; and also the fact that "Sage" SatyaNarayana stands on His own (as a manifestation of many divines together, including Shiva and BrahmA).
    So this only further strengthens my point that NArAyaNa should not be seen as the proper name of Vishnu, even though as an amsha/ mode / epithet of Vishnu the name nArAyaNa (which is a proper name of Sri Surya) is valid. This was the whole point I was trying to make.

    Again, the equivalence of NArAyaNa with Ram (and Surya, of Navagraha-s) is more strengthened.
    My personal belief is that Lord Vishnu and Lord Narayana are same,I'm assuming so based on this:

    10.1.6 Taittiriya Aranyaka - Taittiriya Krishna Yajur Veda
    Om Narayanaya Vidhmahe Vasudevaya Dheemahe Thanno Vishnu Prachodayath.


    Om, Let me meditate on Lord Narayana,
    Oh, Lord Vasudeva, give me higher intellect,
    And let Lord Vishnu illuminate my mind.
    In the temple website of Sri Ananthalakshmi sametha Vira Venkata Satyanarayana Swamy is says that:

    It is believed that the place was known for constant food distribution (free feeding) by the benevolent people of the locality and that therefore the place was called by the name Annavaram(annam means food). Another version is that because the presiding deity of the place blesses the devotees with anina varam (pronounced or wanted boon), the place is called Annavaram.

    Lord Satyadeva the god of truth is showering his eternal blessings on mankind in his beautiful manifested form of the DIVINE TRINITY namely Hari Hara Hiranya Garbha Thrimurtyatmaka. Hence this is the temple that is attracting the Pilgrims of both Vishanava and Saiva devotees and thousands of pilgrims from all over the Country are worshiping Lord Satyadeva every day forgetting all sectional differences.

    The idol is about 13 feet high in a cylindrical form, the base being in the lower sanctum representing Lord Brahma and the top is in the upper sanctum representing Lord Vishnu. The middle portion represents Lord Siva. There are some temples representing the unity of Lords Hari and Hara in some places and this is the place where even Brahma who is generally denied temple worship, is clubbed with the other two, and the creator (Brahma), the protector (Vishnu) and destroyer (Siva) are worshipped simultaneously. The image of the lord forming a single idol representing the Trimurthis-Brahma, Vishnu and Siva is of unique attraction.

    "Moolatho Brahma roopaya

    Madhayathashca Maheswaram

    Agrathah Vishnuroopaya

    Traika roopayathenamaha"


    The Moola virat of Lord Satyanarayana swamy is in the centre, the image of Goddess Anantha Lakshmi Ammavaru is in the right and Lord Shiva is on the left. The idols are of exquisite grace and beauty and are encaged in gold kavachams.

    The adjoining shrine of Sri Rama seems to be the holy spot where the original self-mainfested idol of Sri Satyanarayanaswamy was discovered by the devotees. Lord Sri Rama is considered to be the Kshetra Palaka of this holy abode of the Lord Satyadeva.
    The presence of Lord Shiva beside Lord Vishnu is not unusual.But what is strange is that Lord Rama is Kshetra Palaka of this temple,I have never heard of Sri Rama being the guardian of any temple.

    There does seem to be some kind of relation between Lord Satyanarayana and Lord Rama.

    Even more strange is this Sri Satyanarayana Swamy Telugu movie poster I found while searching for images on the net.Here the actor who plays the Lord is shown with Danurbana(Bow and arrow) instead of the Shanka Chakras.I will watch the movie soon and see if there is any relationship between Lord Rama and Lord Satyanarayana.


    He dances in the golden hall of Chidambaram, Let us worship His rosy anklet girt Feet.

  7. #27

    Re: Analysis of the name 'nArAyanA' for Sri Vishnu

    Quote Originally Posted by Ram11 View Post

    My personal belief is that Lord Vishnu and Lord Narayana are same,I'm assuming so based on this:


    Om Narayanaya Vidhmahe Vasudevaya Dheemahe Thanno Vishnu Prachodayath.

    Om, Let me meditate on Lord Narayana,
    Oh, Lord Vasudeva, give me higher intellect,
    And let Lord Vishnu illuminate my mind.
    Namaste,

    That is OK, but as I said this is perfectly OK too otherwise because here Vishnu ji is given (in a totally valid manner) epithets "Narayana" and "Vasudeva", which even though are proper names of Surya Dev and Sri Agni respectively.

    But this logic shouldn't be extended too much (as is done unfortunately today -- which was my point) to address Vishnu as NArAyaNa all the time. Watching nArada chant "nArAyaNa nArAyaNa" in dumb TV serials is no excuse to attributing an untrue proper name to Lord Vishnu.

    But what is strange is that Lord Rama is Kshetra Palaka of this temple,I have never heard of Sri Rama being the guardian of any temple.

    There does seem to be some kind of relation between Lord Satyanarayana and Lord Rama.
    And that connection is Surya. See.

    Even more strange is this Sri Satyanarayana Swamy Telugu movie poster I found while searching for images on the net.Here the actor who plays the Lord is shown with Danurbana(Bow and arrow) instead of the Shanka Chakras.I will watch the movie soon and see if there is any relationship between Lord Rama and Lord Satyanarayana.
    Also, Lord Surya is always I suppose shown sporting moustache-- similar to Satyanarayana Swamy at the temple and also in the movie poster here. Add to this the fact that Navagraha-s are also worshipped in the SatyaNarayana puja. The problem is, people usually connect Surya only with the material Sun, and fail to understand that He is present everywhere in varied forms.

    Ganesha is also closely related to these deities, but I will not go there. The point is, this pov is very consistent, explains otherwise a lot many things other pov doesn't, and therefore is aligned with Shastra-s. This thread is open, anyway, and members can further contribute. My own motivation here is that if I believe 100% in something, I should not hesitate in at least speaking about it. "Truth must be spoken first, even if only to be validated and accepted a long time later"- this is precisely my feeling here, and I will be but happy to see any reasonable refutation.

    We Hindus believe in the coherence of Dharma. We don't see Dharma as a mere hodgepodge of things, as our enemies want us to believe. I am really surprised at the level of propaganda thrown at us even in otherwise uninteresting things such as SatyaNarayana puja, in order to show that the practise is foreign contribution, or that we should sacrifice even our Dharma for the shake of "communal harmony".
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

  8. #28

    Re: Analysis of the name 'nArAyanA' for Sri Vishnu

    No , Astakshari Maha mantram is the entire essence of Vedas. It is given by Narayana to Nara at Badrinath where the Narayana appeared in 2 forms, one is Nara and the other Narayana, one taking the position of acharya and the second is shishya, it is said the power of Astakshari when received from a proper acharya lineage comes from Badrinath due to chanting by Nara-Narayana.

    naarayaNa does not mean who is seated in water, 'ra' is agnibheejam and which can destroy the sins when uttered. 'ra' means something that is destructible('nas' in sanskrit actually means going into a state where we cannot see it ) 'na+ra' is something which is not at all destroyed. 'n'+'aa' means groups of groups of entire things in the universe. Nothing is destroyed in the universe, only it changes form and name. 'Ayana' is the supporter. So naarayaNa means the ones who is inside and outside everything and supports them as a whole. In everything it exists. Narayana and Vishnu are the same as Sriyaathi is called Narayana and Narayana tattvam is Vishnu

  9. #29

    Re: Analysis of the name 'nArAyanA' for Sri Vishnu

    Namaste GaruDa,
    Welcome to HDF.
    Quote Originally Posted by Garuda View Post
    No , Astakshari Maha mantram is the entire essence of Vedas. It is given by Narayana to Nara at Badrinath where the Narayana appeared in 2 forms, one is Nara and the other Narayana, one taking the position of acharya and the second is shishya, it is said the power of Astakshari when received from a proper acharya lineage comes from Badrinath due to chanting by Nara-Narayana.
    Again, this is just an assertion (and not an explanation) when we say, "..where the Narayana appeared in 2 forms, one is Nara and the other Narayana". I will simply go with a better "..where Vishnu appeared in.." and so on.

    naarayaNa does not mean who is seated in water, 'ra' is agnibheejam and which can destroy the sins when uttered. 'ra' means something that is destructible('nas' in sanskrit actually means going into a state where we cannot see it ) 'na+ra' is something which is not at all destroyed. 'n'+'aa' means groups of groups of entire things in the universe. Nothing is destroyed in the universe, only it changes form and name. 'Ayana' is the supporter. So naarayaNa means the ones who is inside and outside everything and supports them as a whole.
    Now, you come up with an explanation of the word nArAyaNa which I think is very true and every word written here is very special. I am happy that a very true analysis of the word (the topic of this thread) is provided.

    BTW, the word Apah also doesn't simply mean water (as in physical water) and an explanation using the word nAra is justified too (and which relates to the same understanding as provided by you here; see my post#3).

    In everything it exists. Narayana and Vishnu are the same as Sriya-pathi is called Narayana and Narayana tattvam is Vishnu
    An assertion, again. I think you have missed the nuances here, what this discussion is really about. To state it very plain n short, the core issue here is: "Vishnu is "more" than Narayana." On the other hand, Narayana is Surya and very much His own person and deity.

    I know this thread is confusing many others. Though what I am saying all along (now painful) is very simple and clear.

    BTW, I fully appreciate your analysis of the word Narayana.
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

  10. #30

    Re: Analysis of the name 'nArAyanA' for Sri Vishnu

    ^^Thanks Kalicharan Swamy.
    although i cannot figure what you meant by 'To state it very plain n short, the core issue here is: "Vishnu is "more" than Narayana." On the other hand, Narayana is Surya and very much His own person and deity.'

    naarayaNa is a tattvam, not male/female/ it is 'it' the same with vishnu but they appear in forms for our benefit for us to do upasana......the narayana term is much broader and it covers anything, even vishnu,vasudeva merges into word narayana....hence if you see the ramanuja parampara, the acharyas give only Narayana mantram, (astakshari+dwaya mantram+charama slokam(sarva dharmaan parityajya)-last slokam of bg--combined)...Adi Shankara in his commentaries on also referred the supreme as Narayana only.

    adiyen Ramanuja daasa

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