Does Ramanama destroys bad karma?

[orlando]

I have never referred to a mantra here whose purpose is different from chanting of names - they are entirely different things.

BY the way, the rules that you mentioned are man made. There cant be any place or time restriction for thinking about God or meditating on him. Such rules are strictly for householders who are yet karmatas, and still indulge in worship for satisying material desires. For a person completely devoted to God, there simply cant be any rules.

By imposing such rules on time and also things like bath, you have virtually made a deep samadhi an imposibility, which may last days at a time. It is quite true that there should be good emphasis on external purity for a house holder and otherwise worldly people. For an advanced seeker, he is purified in his mind, what can beat that?

Namaste.
If those rules are founde in the shastras,this means that they are commened by God and are not man made.I am not an householder.I am brahmachary.I think that I will not marry and I will take vow of celibacy.But i follow those rules.
You wrote:"
By imposing such rules on time and also things like bath, you have virtually made a deep samadhi an imposibility, which may last days at a time."
Well,even if one doesn't recite Ramayana and doesn't recite Vishnusasranamam one mays do Ramanama,mays recite simply sanskrit prayes and shlokas and mays read scriptures like the puranas.
Regards,
Orlando.

[TruthSeeker]

Namaste.
If those rules are founde in the shastras,this means that they are commened by God and are not man made.I am not an householder.I am brahmachary.I think that I will not marry and I will take vow of celibacy.But i follow those rules.
You wrote:"
By imposing such rules on time and also things like bath, you have virtually made a deep samadhi an imposibility, which may last days at a time."
Well,even if one doesn't recite Ramayana and doesn't recite Vishnusasranamam one mays do Ramanama,mays recite simply sanskrit prayes and shlokas and mays read scriptures like the puranas.
Regards,
Orlando.

As far as I am concerned scripture is only a guideline. The spiritual portion of it is the core, the rest of the myth and stuff are very secondary. Ultimately the aim of scripture and religion should be to make man more interested in spirituality, and if any religion is going to rely on very harsh rules and disciplining(like enforcing God's commands), it is not going to go to the masses. It will turn man away from God.

The bath etc are intended for purity, and is a beginner level exercise. As you progress in your sadhana, the emphasis shifts into subtle realms, and not on bodily rules - was what I intended to say.

Do you know that practicising proper pranayama along with kumbakam has virtually no equivalent purifier of the body? Take a look at Manusmriti and see how much Pranayama is eulogized even as a parihara for many sins. True bath is the bliss bath of the soul in the sahasrara chakra.

The reason Ramayana is read with considerable reverance is because it is an itihasa. Itihasas are not merely stories, but rather life histories of a Yogi expressed in a story form. For eg, Ramayana is actually Jnana Yoga, and its seven kandas are nothing but seven stages of Jnana Yoga . ( I can elaborate this in detail in another post) Reading of Ramayana is equal to indulging in Jnana Yoga for this reason, though it will lead to self realization in a dormant way. Similarly, Mahabaratha is the itihasa of Karma Yoga. Similarly, the first seven chapters of Bhagavata is Jnana Yoga, and the 10th skanda is Jnana Bhakti Itihasa, where every character in the story is very significant, and even the names of characters have direct relevance to the Yoga. I can post about this in great detail. Devi Bhagavatam is identical in purport to Srimad Bhagavatam.

[orlando]

As far as I am concerned scripture is only a guideline. The spiritual portion of it is the core, the rest of the myth and stuff are very secondary. Ultimately the aim of scripture and religion should be to make man more interested in spirituality, and if any religion is going to rely on very harsh rules and disciplining(like enforcing God's commands), it is not going to go to the masses. It will turn man away from God.

The bath etc are intended for purity, and is a beginner level exercise. As you progress in your sadhana, the emphasis shifts into subtle realms, and not on bodily rules - was what I intended to say.

Do you know that practicising proper pranayama along with kumbakam has virtually no equivalent purifier of the body? Take a look at Manusmriti and see how much Pranayama is eulogized even as a parihara for many sins. True bath is the bliss bath of the soul in the sahasrara chakra.

The reason Ramayana is read with considerable reverance is because it is an itihasa. Itihasas are not merely stories, but rather life histories of a Yogi expressed in a story form. For eg, Ramayana is actually Jnana Yoga, and its seven kandas are nothing but seven stages of Jnana Yoga . ( I can elaborate this in detail in another post) Reading of Ramayana is equal to indulging in Jnana Yoga for this reason, though it will lead to self realization in a dormant way. Similarly, Mahabaratha is the itihasa of Karma Yoga. Similarly, the first seven chapters of Bhagavata is Jnana Yoga, and the 10th skanda is Jnana Bhakti Itihasa, where every character in the story is very significant, and even the names of characters have direct relevance to the Yoga. I can post about this in great detail. Devi Bhagavatam is identical in purport to Srimad Bhagavatam.

Namaste Shri ThuthSeeker,so do yoy say that Itihasas are life histories of a Yogi expressed in a story form?
Well,I don't agree with this at all.
Now I will help you to understand the true use of itihasas and Puranas.
By http://www.gosai.com/dvaita/madhvaca...hagavatam.html
there are certain factors that make it practically impossible to study the Vedas in this age:

After Srila Vyasadeva divided the Vedas into four books (Rg, Yajur, Sama and Atharva), his disciples further divided them into 1,130 divisions. This is stated in the Kurma Purana (52.19-20):
eka-vimsati-bhedena rg-vedam krtavan pura
sakhanam satenaiva yajur-vedam athakarot

sama-vedam sahasrena sakhanam prabibheda sah
atharvanam atho vedam bibedha navakena tu

‘Previously the Rg Veda was divided into 21 sections, the Yajur Veda into 100 sections, the Sama Veda into 1,000 sections and the Atharva Veda into 9 divisions.’

Each division has 4 minor divisions, namely the Samhitas, Brahmanas, Aranyakas and Upanisads. Thus altogether the 4 Vedas contain 1,130 Samhitas, 1,130 Brahmanas, 1,130 Aranyakas, and 1,130 Upanisads. This makes a total of 4,520 divisions.

At present, most of these texts have disappeared due to the influence of time. We can only find 11 Samhitas, 18 Brahmanas, 7 Aranyakas and 220 Upanisads which constitutes a mere 6% of the entire Vedic canon!

Even if the Vedas were complete in there entirety, in order to understand them one must first study the Vedangas which includes Siksa (the science of phonetics), Vyakarana (grammatical rules), Kalpa (ritualistic rules), Nirukta (obscure word meanings), Chanda (Metres for chanting Vedic hymns), and Jyotisa (astrology and astronomy).
Since the language of the Vedas is enshrouded in mysterious meanings, one must also be willing to sacrifice years of study in order to learn Vaidika (classical) Sanskrit. This entails primarily learning the basic grammar (which generally takes 12 years or so) and then memorising extra vocabulary in order to decipher the mystical language of the Vedas. 1
Apart from that, it is practically impossible for those born in the age of Kali (who are generally ‘mandah sumanda-matayo’) to memorise even the slightest thing. What to speak of the entire Vedas or even the 6% that still survives today! At present, amongst the brahmana communities in India, it is generally observed that vedadhyayana simply consists of memorising the text of one of the four Vedas ‘parrot-fashion’, but as we can see from above, there is much more to it than that. Therefore, we may conclude that although the Vedas are perfect sabda-pramana, it is impractical to become thoroughly conversant with the Vedas in this day and age in order to understand the Supreme. Hence the solution lies in the Puranas and the Itihasas. This is explained in the following verse -


bharata-vyapadesena hyamnayarthah pradarsitah
vedah pratisthah sarve sarve purane natra samsayah

"On the pretext of writing the Mahabharata, Vyasa explained the meaning of the Vedas. Certainly all the topics of the Vedas have been established in the Puranas." (Visnu Purana)

Furthermore, it is explained in the Mahabharata (Adi Parva 1.267) and Manu Samhita –

itihasa puranabhyam vedam samupabrmhayet

" One must complement one’s study of the Vedas with the Itihasas and the Puranas."

In the Prabhasa-khanda of the Skanda Purana (5.3.121-124) it is said –

veda-van niscalam manye puranartham dvijottamah
vedah pratisthitah sarve purane natra samsayah

bibhety-alpa-srutad vedo mam ayam calayisyati
itihasa-puranais tu niscalo’yam krtah purah

yan na drstam hi vedesu tad drstam smrtisu dvijah
ubhayor yan na drstam hi tat puranah pragiyate
yo veda caturo vedan sangopanisado dvijah
puranam naiva janati na ca sa syad vicaksana

" O best of the brahmanas, the meaning of the Puranas is unchanging just like that of the Vedas. The Vedas are all sheltered within the Puranas without a doubt. The Veda has a fear that unqualified people will read her and then distort her meaning. Thus, the significance of the Veda was fixed in the Puranas and Itihasas. That which is not found in the Vedas is found in the Smrti. That which is not found in the Smrti is to be found in the Puranas. Those who know even the Vedas and Upanisads are not learned if they do not know the Puranas."

rcah samani chandamsi puranam yajusa saha
ucchistaj-jajnire sarve divi deva divi-sritah

"The Rg, Sama, Yajur and Atharva became manifest from the Lord, along with the Puranas and all the Devas residing in the heavens." (Atharva Veda 11.7.24)

sa brhatim disam anu vyacalat tam itihasas ca puranam ca gathas ca itihasasya ca sa vai puranasya ca gathanam ca narasamsinam ca priyam dhama bhavati ya evam veda

"He approached the brhati meter, and thus the Itihasas, Puranas, Gathas and Narasamsis became favorable to him. One who knows this verily becomes the beloved abode of the Itihasas, Puranas, Gathas and Narasamsis." (Atharva Veda 15.6.10–12)


evam ime sarva veda nirmitah sa-kalpah sa-rahasyah sa-brahmanah sopanisatkah setihasah sanvakhyatah sa-puranan

"In this way, all the Vedas were manifested along with the Kalpas, Rahasyas, Brahmanas, Upanisads, Itihasas, Anvakhyatas and the Puranas." (Gopatha Brahmana, purva 2.10)

nama va rg-vedo yajur-vedah sama-veda atharvanas caturtha itihasa-puranah pancamo vedanam vedah

"Indeed, Rg, Yajur, Sama and Atharva are the names of the four Vedas. The Itihasas and Puranas are the fifth Veda." (Kauthumiya Chandogya Upanisad 7.1.4)


asya mahato bhutasya nihsvasitam etad yad rg-vedo yajur-vedah sama
vedo’tharvangirasa itihasah puranam ityadina

"O Maitreya, the Rg, Yajur, Sama and Atharva Vedas as well as the Itihasas and the Puranas all manifest from the breathing of the Lord." (Madhyandina-sruti, Brhad-aranyaka Upanisad 2.4.10)

Regards,
Orlando.

[TruthSeeker]

Namaste Shri ThuthSeeker,so do yoy say that Itihasas are life histories of a Yogi expressed in a story form?
Well,I don't agree with this at all.

You dont have to agree, it is your privilege. Every one has their own view. Except note that literal interpretations of Ramayana as a history is often nothing but rubbish. Ramayana contains such beautiful hidden meanings in it, that you can learn only from a true Yogi or from Isvara himself.

Just for your infomation, please try to make sense of the verses in Kiskinda Kanda here.

http://www.valmikiramayan.net/kishki...a_40_frame.htm

Can you provide any meaningful explanations for these verses? They are gems of verses explaining the fifth stage of Jnana Yoga called the Pratas-sandhya ( the same as the one done ritually without knowing the meaning in the Sandya vandanam). Each kanda in Ramayana represents one stage of Jnana Yoga, which culimates in the Uttara Kanda, where identity with the Absolute is realized, technically called the Sayam-Sandhya. Just ask those Brahmins who do Sandhya Vandanam of what is the purpose of doing that - literaly it is mentioned as driving away an asura called Mandeha who attacks the Sun, by spraying water!!! Ask them for a good spiritual explanation.....of what this myth is all about! Dont take any portion of vedas as literal, it is plain rubbish often.

Every Itihasa explains only one of the two process of Self Realization - Karma Yoga also called the Yoga, and Jnana Yoga also caled the Shankya Yoga. They may have some historical relevance, but their main purport is only to provide a commentary of the vedas.

As you know, self realization involves understanding of the 25 tattvas. Of these 25, Karma Yoga deals with the lower 18 tattvas, and Jnana Yoga with higher seven tattvas.

Mahabaratha is Karma Yoga and deals with 18 tattvas, indicated by the 18 parvas , 18 chapters of Gita and 18 days of war. Each of these is very signifcant, and you need to learn from a realized Yogi, and not from books.

Ramayana is Jnana Yoga and consists of 7 tattvas, indicated by the seven kandas of Ramayana. Jnana and Bhakti Yoga are not separate when viewed from a higher plane. Srimad Bhagavatam and Devi Bhagavatam deal with both Karma and Jnana Yoga.

Advaita deals with all the 25 tattvas. Vishistadvaita deals with 24 tattvas, and other religions and philosophies cover between 10-24 tattvas in their scope and hence the apparent conflict between religions. All religions in the world can be claasfied into either Karma and Jnana Yoga( or a forerunner to one of these), based on their teachings. The scope of Gita is only Karma Yoga as indicated by its 18 chapters and hence it does not teach advaita , though Arjuna is instructed about other higher tattvas in Jnana Yoga.

[TruthSeeker]

Hi,

Assume that I am giving a big feast. What you do expect me to have before giving that big feast. Money, Grain, Cereals, OK

I must have all such stuff in abundance so that I can offer it to you.

So is the names of the lord . Each name is each stuff which is required for feasting, so we have so many names. Each and every name is abundant.

Probably, I like Patotos, some like brinjals, some one like Jilebis so on and so forth. For the person who has tasted the stuff with heart that is enough. When I discuss with you the first thing I will ask is "Had you tasted that Patoto?" probably some one with come and tell me "That Gulab Jamun was excellent, nothing like it, you must have it" -
arre yaar, me tho diabeties patient hun
He will say abe chodo yaar, ek se kya ho jaata hai

Now it is for me to conclude whether the guy who offers me Gulab jamun is about to kill me or make me to taste a good stuff.

The point here is some opt to choose the killing notion, but I see the love he has for Gulab Jamun and me

Many times we will come across us opposites at the same place, verily I suggest try to opt for all when options of alternatives are given to you

Jai shree krishna

I did not get the gist of what you are trying to say.

Are you still saying that three names of Ram are equivalent to 1008 other names? I would consider that a lazy attitude, and would never teach easier ways to anyone, because it is very unlikely then that Sahasranama will ever be recited by anyone.

Sahasranama itself is dictated to Yudhishtira as the highest Dharma and the way to moxa. I dont see a need to dilute that message. Obviously, repeating Rama Nama 1008(rather 1031?) times must be equivalent to reciting the Sahasranama.

[TruthSeeker]

Hi,

Assume that I am giving a big feast. What you do expect me to have before giving that big feast. Money, Grain, Cereals, OK

I must have all such stuff in abundance so that I can offer it to you.

So is the names of the lord . Each name is each stuff which is required for feasting, so we have so many names. Each and every name is abundant.

Probably, I like Patotos, some like brinjals, some one like Jilebis so on and so forth. For the person who has tasted the stuff with heart that is enough. When I discuss with you the first thing I will ask is "Had you tasted that Patoto?" probably some one with come and tell me "That Gulab Jamun was excellent, nothing like it, you must have it" -
arre yaar, me tho diabeties patient hun
He will say abe chodo yaar, ek se kya ho jaata hai

Now it is for me to conclude whether the guy who offers me Gulab jamun is about to kill me or make me to taste a good stuff.

The point here is some opt to choose the killing notion, but I see the love he has for Gulab Jamun and me

Many times we will come across us opposites at the same place, verily I suggest try to opt for all when options of alternatives are given to you

Jai shree krishna

I do not get the gist of what you are saying.

If you are still saying that repeating the name Ram three times is equivalent to reciting the entire Sahasranama, that must be a lazy attitude. Sahasranama itself is dictated to Yudhistira as the moxadharma and I dont see a need to dilute that message.

[ramkish42]

I do not get the gist of what you are saying.

If you are still saying that repeating the name Ram three times is equivalent to reciting the entire Sahasranama, that must be a lazy attitude. Sahasranama itself is dictated to Yudhistira as the moxadharma and I dont see a need to dilute that message.

What I said was in justification to many names of god and attachment of few people with few names of god.

Jai shree krishna