If brahma writes our fate, then why does Yamraja punish us?

[ajreddy]

Namaste
Karma is represented not just by Yama but all the planets because all the planets govern different aspects of the same. Brahma represents the creation at its highest. And brahma doesn’t really write fate. Go above the facade of stories. Every soul descends in the material realm to experience everything good and bad. Unless there is experience there is no growth. Suffering and joy are both parts of the journey a soul makes in its quest for growth. So if a soul kills someone in this birth it will be killed in some birth or the other. The action has to be negated with an equal deserving reaction. Now why would a soul kill someone? Because anger jealousy hate and violence are parts of the journey too and the soul has to go through them and experience negative emotions too. And pain misery and death are the by products of it which are to be experienced as well. There is nothing like a completely good perfect person or path. Everyone is here to learn something new and to expand the consciousness. When i was doing a TM sadhana Hreem mantra to be specific i had to encounter certain experiences which made me realize why i suffered a bad time. In my previous life i did the same to some animal and i got the same in this birth. So hreem gave me the necessary insightful memory as to why things happened and what will happen too. I learned to accept things as they are and to learn to accept destiny and go with the flow.
Now this brahma, yama and all aren’t really live fleshy entities but just governing phases of life and it would be wise of us not to take them literally. Now all the actions we make are recorded in the chit akasha. No one can escape from them. Even Rama and Krishna had to suffer great deal of karma and the difference between them and us is they are not affected by the results of Karma while we are. There is nothing like who created karma. Karma comes within the consciousness of the soul as an eternal consequence of time and space from the eternal void and you can’t ever separate time space and karma.Once the soul completes its journey of experiencing all that exists, there is no more desire to experience the journey anymore and just the sense of “i am” remains and the sense of “i am the doer” gets smashed and that is when time and space both cease to exist and karma automatically stops.
And if you want to get liberated from the chains of karma you have to start by detaching yourself from all the conditioning of life including the society, state, culture etc. Even names/forms of parents, friends and even God condition people to certain degrees of bondage. Also stop attributing human qualities to God and stop talking on His behalf and that is where the real sense of spirit begins to dawn.

[chakreshvari]

Namashkar
I think it's because we write our OWN fate (from deeds/karma).
When we do anything karma comes, I think Sri Brahma is just writing what will happen in all fairness to what we did (in our past incarnation). Sri Yama only punishes us based on our ACTIONS. I think Sri Brahma only gives our fate, but to us our test is on how we HANDLE situations. We still could do what we want in situations. Our actions aren't whats written, only what we get is written.

[sunder-bangalore]

Whatever circumstances we face in life are due to our past karma
Our responses ( out of free will ) to these circumstances, determine our future

Yama doesn't punish us. He only tallies the karmic ledger for the life gone by.

Brahma utilizes this karmic ledger to write the fate for the next life.

And the cycle continues...

[seeker_a]

Namaste


I do not know where this comes from that Brahma does so (by the way, what it means "everything happiness"?), but that does not mean that we are not doing the deeds according to our will. See what Lord Krishna says to Arjuna in the Bhagavad gita 18.63:

"Thus I have explained to you knowledge still more confidential. Deliberate on this fully, and then do what you wish to do."

Here the Lord says "do what you wish to do". Would the Lord said so if it would be impossible for Arjuna to act according to his will? If the living entity has no discretion or the ability to decide for themselves what to do, then the statement "do what you wish to do" does not make sense.
Some people this jiva's ability called "free will" and Srila Prabhupada called it "little independence of the living entity". See at his purport on this verse:

"Here the words yathecchasi tathā kuru -- "As you like, you may act" -- indicate that God does not interfere with the little independence of the living entity."

So, we are dependent on God's will, the laws of nature, karma, etc., but we have that what is called "little independence" to freely decide what to do, and then we become responsible for our actions. Right?


regards

I agree with you.. We are presented with various situations in our life based on our fate... But ass you appropriately poined out, God gives us freedom to react to the situation in a way that one wants..

However, the sole responsibility of the consequences of our reactions is ours.

Regards

[Soul of Light]

Namaste all.
In this situation of lockdown here in India I came again here on hdf. After a long time. Maybe after 4-5 years..
This is the first post I saw after coming here.. will like to share what I think about it..

To talk about Brahma Ji and Yamraj ji, I am not that learned in scriptures so I will share my views on fate and free will..
The god, Brahma Ji or you can say the supreme energy or consciousness has created many laws on which the universe runs. We are unaware of many.

Take the example of law of gravity, planets are revolving due to this force. Fruit fall on ground due to gravity.
So falling of fruit is due to law of gravity. Right?
But where it falls? When it falls? Does gravity also controls that? Not likely the case. There are many other factors controlling that..
Like where the plant is, which plant is that, wheather there and all the bunch of things.
Too much offtopic! From this I just wanted to suggest that. How universe works doesn't depend on 1 ultimate law but the combinations of many factors.

If Brahma Ji has already written all the things gonna happen in our life and yamraj punish us? Then why the yamraj punishing us? For living the life which Brahma Ji created? Without our mistakes sorrow and hell comes in our way? Sounds not correct right?

Now how the fate works..
From my point of view karma + our nature (swabhav or sanskara) built by experiences in life makes our fate.
This is what I believe.
Everyone knows the law of karma.. every action has reaction. Do good you will get good.
Now I will talk about the second most important factor. The nature we have acquired so far. Some will distinguish it in the percentage of sattva, rajo and tamo guna.
If one person is so short tempered, he is angry young man then at least once in his life he will be in fight with someone! Isn't it obvious? Isn't its fate? We are what are our thoughts and beliefs. If we believe in something so deeply and works towards it. Isn't universe will help us then? People call it law of attraction now a days.

So this are two very simple but most important factors, then what complicates it? It's cycle of life and death.
This two god created things are not started working since your born in this life. This were working from many lifetimes of yours.
You have accumulated many karmas (prarabdha karma) and built your nature according to your experience. You are born with it in this lifetime.

Where you have born? What traits you have? And all the things happen in your life is controlled by this things..
We call it "Fate".. so god has written it? I don't think so. God has made the laws and given you the free will..
It's like God has given you the pen and book to write your fate..

Now can we change fate?
You don't know what you have done in your previous life's, so many things are not in our hand. But laws are still working. Our present karma and beliefs will make our future in this life and our next lives.
So what is in our hand is action and the physical, mental and emotional energy we have given behind it. The faith we have in our deity. If we gave 100% in it then first we can balance and later we can even change our fate. Future is all in our hands due to the grace and power given by lord.

It's just like Brahma Ji has given all the resources to built something. One person built the palace and the other one built the hut. Now who is responsible for palace and hut? Brahma Ji because he is given the resources without which it was impossible or the person who built it? Decision is all yours.
Pranam

[Indialover]

Namaste

How can Hindus fear a punishing God? Why do they forget the law of Karma, the law of cause and effect - action and reaction?
We throw a ball against a wall with great force, it comes back to us with the same force, hits our nose, it bleeds. Should we blame the wall for punishing us? If we lower the force, the ball will come back to us gently and we can catch it.

The punishing God is made by man, especially by clergy. I think, Hindus took Him over from Abrahamic religion, just like they took over sin. Sin is not papa, in its original sense sin means avidya. It was corrupted to make people fear the punishing God. Abrahamic religions are destructive, they do not know punya.

I am talking about religion only, not about the mystery scools, which teach vidya. Mysticism is forbidden in Abrahamic religions ... for good reason ... with vidya people cannot be suppressed by clergy.

Pranam

[markandeya 108 dasa]

Hare Krsna

What is the original meaning of karma, the answer is within the word itself

Kar - coming from, coming out of, hailing from and belonging too are some words associated with Kar

Ma - Mother

Karma yoga is that action which is coming from or originates in from Sri Ma Devi-pra-kriti samadhi of brahman

Karma Yoga is divine activity when the mind has woken up to the surpacosmic supramundane prajna, which is freedom itself, materialist dont like this, they dont like freedom or free will.


The only place i can find any relation to karma as being cause and effect and you get what you sow is from main stream abrahamic religions whose main source of motive s to dis-empower the people and bind them to man made laws.

Religion, politics and intellectuals control man kind, they make their own laws, the latest one in fashion or trending at the moment is that the individual has no free, and surprisingly this is quite well accepted within the modern advaita teachings, at best there is the illusion of free will. Equating E = m c squared with Om , this is without going into details is nothing short of the concept of man god who controls everything of Abrahamic variety, which is what this thread is about. Why would God for want of a better word create evil just to punish it, this lacks consciousness. Man made rules are unconscious, Brahman is conscious Man punishes Man due to greed, hatred and ignorance, Brahman is free liberated with sat chit ananda. When the citta or the mind that follows comes in touch with man made ideas it follows them and becomes conditioned by them and looses consciousness, when mind citta is in union with with Brahman or has glimpses of Brahman it becomes free and takes on the qualities of Brahman, which is free liberated and Self sustained. Theory of man made religion, intellectual word smiths , ie scholarship, media ect defining reality with mundane words and the power of the word is the antithesis of Dharma, the enemy of ones own true existence.

Poor become victims of man made ideas, he is suffering and in unfortunate bad birth because of his past actions and God is punishing him, this is man made idea. Man in the highest level the outward controllers are exploiting the resources of nature one of which is the mind, senses and intellect, this breeds poverty, both physical mental and spiritual. Again it is media, politics and so called religion that are the instruments of control for man controlled world, where only humans punish humans and Brahman liberates and brings an end to suffering, he does not judge Brahman is impartial and free and does not mix with mundane man made ideas, like the sun does not mix with darkness.

Siya Ram

[Shantanu]

I constantly probe the ethers (Brahma-Nature) to discover my realities in order to accommodate myself within them for certainty of actions without a purpose: that is not karma, it is Brahmoadvaita.

[kallol]

Om

Namaste

In our Sanatana Dharma, it's more the Cause and effect rule or the Karma rule which is what our science also says. So there is no jump to Swarga or Naraka or Yama or anything. All is about one's mind.

The swarga, naraka, patala, etc, rather the states of 14 lokas are the states of one's mind. The bodies only conform to those states. If mind is in swarga state I get a sawrga body in next birth. If my mind is in patala state, I get patala body in next birth.

So there is no one deciding for one, what he wants to be.

However the larger design is casted as once a soul manifests, it has to also unmanifests.

So for that He has put a carrot in front of us. It is the search for stable happiness. In this search we move from one goalpost to the next. First external triggered happiness and then slowly turning inward. Once inward it pulls towards that permanent nectar of love and happiness, where we find the bliss state.

Best wishes

[RamaRaksha]

Hare Krishna!
All glories to Sri Guru and Gauranga!
Dandavats all,
If Brahma writes our fate and everything happiness as he wrote then why should Yamaraja punish us? Why is there Karma?
Jai Sri Radhe-Syam!

We need to get rid of this punishment business - it makes no sense - it is not Justice, it is Vengeance
Let us understand the difference between Vengeance and Justice - Vengeance is an eye for an eye, you kill mine, I kill yours
Gandhiji taught to not give in to Vengeful hate

These ideas come from old primitive times when Justice was hard to come by - today we have the police and forensic evidence to find out the real criminals but back in the day most crimes would go undetected and so people took matters into their own hands - they suspected X of killing their loved one, they would gang up and kill that person - because bringing him to court would do nothing without having much evidence

It is from these times we get Hell and punishment

Let's take a situation - some criminal robs you and abducts your little child - would you
1. want that criminal to suffer terribly and be killed?
or
2. Get your little child back with all your money?
of course 100% would choose the latter - How would you as a father gain anything if the criminal is being tortured here or in Hell? It will not bring your child back which is what you want
Justice is when the victim is made whole
That is the difference between Vengeance and Justice - No.1 option is vengeance, Hollywood and the latest Hindi Movies(I will never use that slave/servant B-word for Hindi cinema) love Vengeance. Hero or Heroine gets hurt in the beginning of the movie and then it is a kill fest the rest of the way
To bring a criminal to Justice takes time - it is non-violent - not much of an appeal there

But in the modern civilized world - we need to seek Justice, not Vengeance - again that is what Gandhiji taught - "do not hate the British, ask for Justice - treat us as equals - give us the same freedoms that you enjoy"

And so if a drunk drives his parked car into yours and causes damage - maybe in the olden days we might beat up that person(Vengeance)
But in the modern Civilized world we would take the guy to court - ask him to pay for the damages - your car is repaired, you are happy - Justice is done!

So let us ask ourselves - is God not civilized? Why would God Sri Rama choose to use primitive abusive methods of torture in hell?
And what purpose does that serve? Nothing!

And we must also ask ourselves - is God our Father, Teacher? If yes then we must ask why would any Father torture his own children?
Would any Father rape his own daughters in hell? It makes no sense

Such torture makes sense in Christianity & Islam for these are Master/Slave religions - they view God as a Master - down on their knees they beg for his mercy. One of the famous stories is of God asking Abraham to MURDER HIS OWN SON! Yes you read that right - kill your own son!
And guess what Abraham does? HE HURRIES TO OBEY!
What you are seeing here is clearly a Master/King/Dictator testing his slave/servant for loyalty and the slave blindly obeying!
And from such religions we get Heaven and Hell
A Dictator/Master "God" who will brutalize and abuse his slaves in hell!

That is not us - we are not Slaves/Servants of God but TRUE CHILDREN OF GOD - Tyagayya, the famous Telugu Poet - wrote - "Sitamma is our Mother and Sri Rama is our Father"

Let us be True Children of God and dump these ideas of Hell and torture