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Thread: Revolutionary! Sri Velukkudi Krishnan on 'Abhishekam'

  1. #11
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    Re: Revolutionary! Sri Velukkudi Krishnan on 'Abhishekam'

    Quote Originally Posted by Viraja View Post
    Dear Ram ji,

    Thank you for all the wonderful information on agamas. So agamas seemed to have evolved at a much later point than Vedas. So one can discount what is being said at a specific agama?
    Namaste Ji,

    No,not at all Ji.The path of the Veda is very difficult and it is not possible for many to follow.I think today
    in ~125 crores Indians there are less than 1000 Brahmanas who live according to the norms stipulated in Vedic literature.It is awfully tough lifestyle.

    As time passed the number of people living according to Vedas decreased and Dharma was affected.So the wise sages of those times,out of compassion,devised various other methods for people, to attract them and thereby encourage them to practice Dharma.

    The Itihasas,Puranas,Agamas and Tantras are extensions of the Veda and products of wise Rishis.However,overtime certain literature got corrupted because of some people.So a standard was devised,it said anything in these scriptures contradicting the Vedas is unacceptable and anything in tune with the message of the Vedas is good and must be followed.

    All the acharyas should come out and be bold and brave and accommodate for a changing society in whatever way that is feasible. In olden days, there was no TV or modern communication avenues (and India was also rich and fertile) so there wasn't so much exposure to utter poverty. But current society is not so and we are all well aware of it. So what Sri VK speaks rings true to me and I am sure these well-learned and otherwise pious men feel the same too.. I feel they are acting under societal pressure to conform with a specific set of views only and probably fear their authority might get questioned if they act like Sri VK. This should really change.

    Thanks.
    100% true.You understood it correctly.Though there are many Acharyas who want to accommodate to changes and help the society,there are many more who put hurdles in their path.

    Once a head of one famous Vaishnava mutt went abroad to teach Dharma to his disciples there.After he came back he was barred from touching the idol of the Lord as he was considered fallen and polluted.There is an injunction in the scriptures that prevents Sanyasins from crossing the sea.


    Nowadays many Jeer Swamis are also going abroad to do Dharma Upadesha and Prachara.Things need to change,albeit at a slow place,only He Bhagavan(/SHE) knows what is right and what is not and when the time is ripe to initiate change._/\_
    He dances in the golden hall of Chidambaram, Let us worship His rosy anklet girt Feet.

  2. #12
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    Re: Revolutionary! Sri Velukkudi Krishnan on 'Abhishekam'

    Namaste.,

    This is a wrong message and interpretation or translation of Sri Velukudi swami's message. He is not calling for stopping of Abishekam of deities in the temple and please do not attribute such to a great personality like him. He is simply saying, instead of doing 108 pots of milk abisheka, ( as in prayaChitta to gain punya), it will be real punya to go and spend that money and time with those who are in need ( especially you are doing the prayachitta for some reason of your abuse, sin or illgotten money etc). In the same line, he is not saying do not offer feast to your friends and relatives during wedding but he is advising, it will be real annaDhana if the people in need are served that food.

    Also, do not confuse "Dhana" with Dharma! A Dhana done to the "deserving" alone is considered "Dharma" the Mahesa Seva in general is about doing "Service" ( not dhana - not gifting something) - Service to whom, the well deserving!

    We all need to follow and stand by the right practices and those righteous living do not require change rather require rock like conviction! Its not your pizza for you to want change every other meals!

    Hare Krshna!

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    Re: Revolutionary! Sri Velukkudi Krishnan on 'Abhishekam'

    Dear Grames ji,

    I heard the video and he does say that 'deities do not require abhishekam other than with water and Thirumanjanam following that' (which I think is the smearing of turmeric paste). Did you hear the video after 3:45 min?
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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    Re: Revolutionary! Sri Velukkudi Krishnan on 'Abhishekam'

    Dear Viraja Ji.,

    Not sure if you are wanting to understand something from the video but he is not saying "Stop" abishekam! Sri Vaishanvas are not atheists and they do not call for shunning "Agamas" which has deeper meanings! Only for atheists they all look mere rituals or blind faith!

    So, for your information Abishekam = ThiruManjanam in tamil! The Agamas advice certain practices for two major reasons and they are frist and foremost, social reachability of spiritual living and then the spiritual beings pleasure! There are different methods, choices of materials in doing the abisheka and only an expert in agamas can do the perfect abisheka and alankara for the Vaishnava deities! ( Sri Vaishanvas are known for their expertise).

    Lord is complete and does not require us - So can we stop building temples and worshiping Him? Lord require only a leaf and fruit so can we stop naivedya? Don't you see the atheism here?

    In Sri Vaishnavaism , Lord is with personality and we do not just offer Him a leaf and fruit and ask for Moksha! The proper etiquette for engagement for His service, the royal treatment with no room for any errors are the text matter of Agamas and please stop asking for change with no understanding. Rather be humble and ask for reasons and benefits!

    Hare Krshna!

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    Re: Revolutionary! Sri Velukkudi Krishnan on 'Abhishekam'

    Quote Originally Posted by grames View Post
    So, for your information Abishekam = ThiruManjanam in tamil!
    Hare Krshna!
    Dear Grames ji,

    I heard the video a 3rd time - he specifically says, "Shake the thirumanjanam" (thirumanjantthai aattu). I don't know what he means by shaking the thirumanjanam if he refers to liquids being poured on god. I'm very sorry to say, the video still very much sounds like the great Swami asking astikas not to pour curd, milk, etc on gods but to donate it to the needy. (He uses the term 'thevaye illaye' - not necessary at all referring to abhishekam using dairy @3:45). (The very reason I posted this message as I thought it was great of him to say so ).

    I'm sorry if this is not his intended message in the video.
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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    Re: Revolutionary! Sri Velukkudi Krishnan on 'Abhishekam'

    Not sure if we have to continue this but at least from my side, on this particular topic this will be the last post.

    ThiruManjanam - The grand abisheka = Abisheka in Sanskrit! Not to disrespect Sri UVe Krishnan swamigal but even if he said something like that, it will be totally wrong ( but in the video, he does not and i have given the explanation of what he was meaning - taking it or rejecting it is your choice but do not attribute your meaning/understanding to as Swamiji's opinion).

    Not sure what is this belief that, human can stop serving Lord and start serving fellow human - again to get what? The grace of Lord? How many liters of milk He has given to you? How many counts of coconut He has made for you. We want to enjoy kgs/lbs of milk sweet, spray liters of fragrance and body spray, buy infinite number of cloths and acquire everything in this world from slippers to shelter or even compete with others to get some! Why don't we argue and talk about shunning these possession or habit to enjoy everything instead of questioning our little share of gratitude towards ArchaAvatara to keep them clean, fresh, contained as we requested Them to have their presence etc.

    Which superior feel happy if you invite them to your house, but then make them starve or don't treat them the way they should be treated? Let me put a dialogue sequence here..

    Citizen: Mr. President, please come and visit our house!
    President: Ok. Sure. I will be in your house for a month!

    (Lot of nice things are sent to the citizen's house including security devices, grand designer furniture, drinks and meals knowing the citizen is incapable of getting anything that the president will appreciate.)


    President: (waiting in the living room - standing as there is no furniture) - No one around!
    Citizen: ( Enters after few hrs): Oh, you are here! Sorry i am busy!
    President: Oh thats good. What keeps you so busy?
    Citizen: Oh, i was busy distributing the furniture to poor people
    President: Oh! Thats very nice of you!
    Citizen: THank you. Oh yeah, please feel home!
    President: Sure.
    Citizen disappears - got busy doing some random things..

    President: Standing and standing...
    Citizen meeting fellow citizen: hey..wow. you know what, i have the president visiting my house...He is staying in my house.
    Fellow Citizen: oh really. What did you do for him to visit your house
    Citizen: Nothing. Just thrown an invite... but ya know..i got so much of furniture, meals and everything but since i am very nice human, i have distributed to all those poor people
    Fellow CItizen: Oh...in that case, where did you make your president sit?
    Citizen: oh..thats none of my problem...President is all powerful...he will choose where he wants to sit. I already honored him requesting him to feel home so he will not have any problem
    Fellow Citizen: How long did you say he gonna stay at your place...
    Citizen: aargh...for a month

    That's the stance of so called "feel nice human" people who are nothing but "Atheists" or at least getting influenced by Atheism! Serving Lord is the objective but instead of that objective, promoting "Socialism" that too with the belongings of Lord at the expense of deserting Him and services to Him!

    Lord, please forgive those as they have still good heart but wrongly guided!

    Hare Krshna!

  7. #17

    Re: Revolutionary! Sri Velukkudi Krishnan on 'Abhishekam'

    Dear grames-ji,
    You should know that not all Hindus have access to sattvic milk. The dairy industry in many countries is brutal to our cows. You can see videos of this in the internet to understand the unimaginable horror. To bathe the deity of Lord Krishna with such milk is a ridiculous idea. The other thing is that the milk is purified by touching the deity of Lord Krishna. But where does it go? It simply goes down the drain. No one decides to take all the milk and distribute it to everyone who is hungry.

    Secondly, it has already been said in shastras that service to Vaishnavas is greater than the service to Vishnu. Please tell me, if you had $10000, would you use it to build a temple for Lord Vishnu or to feed 100000 Vaishnavas who do not have access to so much food?

    No one is saying that we will stop service to Lord Hari. But service to man, whether an atheist or not, is just as good as service to Lord Hari. Because Hari is the paramatma. By serving the jiva and knowing that the jiva is the body of Paramatma you are directly serving Hari.

    Finally, God doesn't need expensive foods or lavish temples. Krishna says to give him a little amount and that will be fine. We can bathe the deity with a little bit of milk and then give it to other poor people with Lord Hari's name.

    What you are saying is quite similar to how the Muslims will cut off anyone's head if they step on the Quran (a man made object) but they have no problem with anyone cutting animals (a GOD made object). (I just used the Muslims as an example, no insult or insinuation of Islam is being made ). No disrespect is meant here grames-ji. I think you are simply overreacting. No one is saying we will abandon the service of Paramatma and solely serve the jivatma (though there is nothing wrong with that, as I have explained before).

    Regards and forgive my offenses.

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    Re: Revolutionary! Sri Velukkudi Krishnan on 'Abhishekam'

    Thank you for the clarification, Grames ji! I can see your viewpoint now. Maybe the swamiji only meant not to use 108 gallons of milk and curd and to limit their usage, not to stop abhishekam with these.

    Appreciate your involvement in the thread.
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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    Re: Revolutionary! Sri Velukkudi Krishnan on 'Abhishekam'

    Hi

    Did not notice this message. The earlier messages called for calling off abisheka etc. so the questions and advices. Second, holiness of a substance is not something you and I can judge and I do not want to bring in another issue if how cows are milked. If there is sincerity and devotion, proper practices will automatically follow in place and the goshalas are coming up big in western countries as there are sincere followers. Why give up and justify with wrong reason rather accept the situation and improve it.

    Bhagavatha service is Bagavan service and imagine you want to serve a bhagavatha at the expense of baghvan? Tell me if any true bhagavatha will accept such seva. If I have $$$, I do divide it for different purpose and major portion goes for Bagavat seva and another major goes to bhagavatha seva and third goes to those who are naturally challenged and require support to survive. If anything else left, buy trees and plant them with few years of maintenance in mind.

    Hare Krshna!

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    Re: Revolutionary! Sri Velukkudi Krishnan on 'Abhishekam'

    Thank you Grames ji.

    The title of the thread dragged me in but I didn't watch the video due to lack of time. But for your clarification would have got the wrong message.


    Also I must thank you for sharing your profound wisdom through the above post. Several unpleasant events in my life were almost pushing me back to aethism (was an aethist in the past). Your message answered many of my questions.

    Thanks again....
    Anirudh...

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