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Thread: What does the Supreme really want?

  1. #61
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    Re: What does the Supreme really want?

    Pranam Marga ji

    Quote Originally Posted by Marga mana das View Post
    Namaste Ganeshprasad,

    -beautiful name, by the way.
    Well thank you, mercy of Lord Ganesh, I need it.

    Parampara refers to a chain of spiritual masters,
    That is well understood but it has a wider meaning to it, I wan't go in to that.
    But it sure does not equate to Sampradaya there is a difference.

    Kula deva, kula Guru, Kula parampara like in your example;

    'Krishna gives the example in the gita: Krishna - Vivasvan - Manu -Iksvaku.'

    These are Surya Vansa, Raghu Kula their Kula Guru-Vashistha Rishi.

    Just as Pandva and Kourava they had their own Kula Guru- Arjun was worried about his Varna Shankra his Kula being disturbed
    No talk here about any Sampradaya.

    Family tradition, family Devtas, family lineage family gurus that has always been the norm even family born in to certain sampradaya,which is relatively a new term.

    and the idea is that the guru simply passes on the knowledge he has received from his guru to his own disciples - without adding or subtracting, or in other way changing the original knowledge. In this way the knowledge remains perfect and potent.
    And a very good idea and since you are pushing your sampradaya Brahm Gaudia? Let see how true you remain to your own words!

    Madhva sampradaya do they agree with your Gaudya sampradaya ?
    Madhva=sudh dwaita
    Gaudia = Achintya bhed abhed tatva.
    There always a leap of faith from Narad to Madhva there is no direct link is there?

    So where is the continuity?

    In your own Iskcon I believe, correct me if I am wrong, again we have to rely on initiation by the way of a dream to complete the chain-again based on faith.

    Perhaps you can explain why there was a need of new institution when Prabhupada's own guru had his own?

    See I have no problem with sampradaya if it suits the masses what I object is the word 'authentic Guru' I think its an insult to the word Guru it self. A guru is a guru who dispels ignorance. Some people try monopolise that in sampradaya only, that is what I object to.



    As they were instructed by Narada, who was instructed by Brahma (who was instructed by Vishnu), they belong to the Brahma-sampradaya.

    Jay Shree Krishna!
    Oh really I wonder why not Vishnu

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  2. #62
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    Re: What does the Supreme really want?


    He creates the world, maintains all the living beings, comes down to this material world from his eternal abode -- brahmaloka "the world of
    Brahman" ( brahma - Brahman, loka - world) -- as avatara to carry out his pastimes ( lilas) here and thus helps souls to develop bhakti towards
    Him, exchanging transcendental feelings with his devotees, ... etc.
    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...80&postcount=7
    Namaste

    I want to ask a simple probably kindergarten question. There are three different entities in my question

    1) Sreeman Naaraayan,
    2) Anirudh, and
    3) This universe / world

    Why #1 creates #2 and #3, sends #2 to #3, expects #2 to behave in a particular manner, guide #2 to surrender to #1 unconditionally and sows a desire in #2 to return #1.

    I represent a lay man... All I know is myself, my God, and the world I live....

    So I don't understand why #1 does all this?
    Anirudh...

  3. #63
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    Re: What does the Supreme really want?

    Namaste

    Dear Anirudh, your question sounds rhetorical but I will share my perspective anyway. Some believe in an omnipotent and omniscient being who wants nothing more than for all beings to submit to him (always through a human intermediary) but just can't make it happen!

    Sri Bhagavan seemed very detached, even jocular about Arjuna's dilemna before the great battle of Kurukshetra. Only when Arjuna approached him submissively as a disciple did he instruct him in the most confidential knowledge. He did this because both because of his benevolence and as an example to other gurus. He even told Arjuna to share the secret only with others who were already devotees! Therefore IMO he would have been completely satisfied to simply be Arjuna's dear friend. The Supreme is benevolent like the sun; as we approach we are 'rewarded' accordingly. However the want is always ours.

    Hari Aum

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    Namaste

    I want to ask a simple probably kindergarten question. There are three different entities in my question

    1) Sreeman Naaraayan,
    2) Anirudh, and
    3) This universe / world

    Why #1 creates #2 and #3, sends #2 to #3, expects #2 to behave in a particular manner, guide #2 to surrender to #1 unconditionally and sows a desire in #2 to return #1.

    I represent a lay man... All I know is myself, my God, and the world I live....

    So I don't understand why #1 does all this?
    With our ears may we hear what is good.
    With our eyes may we behold thy righteousness.
    Tranquil in body, may we who worship thee find rest.

    AUM Peace Peace Peace

  4. #64
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    Re: What does the Supreme really want?

    Namaste Gitananda ji,

    Thanks for answering me.

    I am not interested to argue but genuinely interested to know why he has created me (or you) in first place? He can or can't be a good guy but that's not my question. Why he has created me. If I am part of him, why he removed me from him?

    What I want from Sreeman Naaraayan or what Sreeman Naaraayan expects from me is secondary. I didn't ask that question also.
    Anirudh...

  5. #65
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    Re: What does the Supreme really want?

    Pranam

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    Namaste

    I want to ask a simple probably kindergarten question. There are three different entities in my question
    -------
    Simple but very profound questions, sad to say there are no simple answers, no sooner you get one another pops up.
    Perhaps there is a clue in Gita where lord Krishna says,
    There was never a time when I, you, or these kings did not exist; nor shall we ever cease to exist in the future. (2.12)

    As to why we exist in this condition i have no answer but it makes sense to seek a solution to our predicament.
    Different solution are offered in various places, take your pick, which we do in our long journey, to find them answers, from where there is no return.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  6. #66
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    Re: What does the Supreme really want?

    Namaste Anirudh,

    When I used term 'rhetorical' what I meant is that I thought that maybe you might have your own opinion about the question you were asking. That is a common way to stimulate discussion, not an indication that an argument is desired.

    Please understand that imo your questions assume premises that everyone doesn't share, like the idea that you were created and that Sreeman Naaraayan had a 'why' for doing so. Therefore I shared with you a different point of view.

    Since I accept the Gita's claim that I always existed then 'I' in the absolute sense was never created (as Ganeshprasad pointed out). Our current existence in a particular body, time, place and circumstance is according to Sri Bhagavan due to our attachment to the gunas in previous lifetimes - that is simply the way the eternal process works.

    When we are tired of the vicious cycle of birth and death (we may not even be fully aware that we are) then paramatma starts leading us towards and through the process of waking up ("I dwelling within extinguish the darkness born of ignorance with the blazing torch of knowledge."). It is in his benevolent nature to help the jivas to achieve their desires.

    Hari Aum


    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    Namaste Gitananda ji,

    Thanks for answering me.

    I am not interested to argue but genuinely interested to know why he has created me (or you) in first place? He can or can't be a good guy but that's not my question. Why he has created me. If I am part of him, why he removed me from him?

    What I want from Sreeman Naaraayan or what Sreeman Naaraayan expects from me is secondary. I didn't ask that question also.
    Last edited by R Gitananda; 10 September 2014 at 03:32 PM. Reason: clarification
    With our ears may we hear what is good.
    With our eyes may we behold thy righteousness.
    Tranquil in body, may we who worship thee find rest.

    AUM Peace Peace Peace

  7. #67

    Re: What does the Supreme really want?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    Pranam



    I am familiar about the story of Ratnakar, what I have not heard about is, any mantra called 'Mara'
    It is true that Naradji gave Ram naam to chant, unable to chant Rama it turned in to Mara, repeat it continuation it becomes indistinguishable, that is what I have learnt from reading Ramcharitra Ramayan of Tulsidas Goswami.
    That is why I ask if you can provide any evidence with actual verse it would be appreciated.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Namaste,

    -Sorry, I don't know which verse it appears in. I just read it in wikipedia and a bunch of other places, so I took it to be correct. But really, I don't know, I'm no authority on the Ramayana. Maybe someone else out there knows where these verses are?

    Hare Krishna.

  8. #68
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    Re: What does the Supreme really want?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    There was never a time when I, you, or these kings did not exist; nor shall we ever cease to exist in the future. (2.12)
    So true!

    Even eternally free atmas such as those belonging to naishtika brahmacharis seem to be taking birth from time to time to uplift mankind. For example, Saint Kabirdas is supposedly a re-birth of Sukha-brahmam and Sant Samartha Ramadas is supposedly a re-birth of Anjaneya Swami!

    Somewhere I read long time ago that in every cycle (consisting of a chatur-yuga), avataras and even human births get repeated in the exact same way! So me is born a 'me' again in the next chatur-yuga! But I hope this isn't true for common people. But, it is said, the Lord repeats all his avataras in every cycle in exactly the same way!
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

  9. #69

    Re: What does the Supreme really want?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    Pranam Marga ji


    And a very good idea and since you are pushing your sampradaya Brahm Gaudia? Let see how true you remain to your own words!

    Madhva sampradaya do they agree with your Gaudya sampradaya ?
    Madhva=sudh dwaita
    Gaudia = Achintya bhed abhed tatva.


    -The philosophy of The Madhvas and that of the Gaudias is the same. Both explain that we are the eternal servants of God.
    Simply the Madhvas ephasize one aspect - duality, and the Gaudias' focus is on that we are both one with and different from God.


    There always a leap of faith from Narad to Madhva there is no direct link is there?

    - Narada instructed Vyasa, who later instructed Madhva, when Madhva visited Bhadrikashram where Vyasa dwells.


    In your own Iskcon I believe, correct me if I am wrong, again we have to rely on initiation by the way of a dream to complete the chain-again based on faith.

    -That is not correct.

    Perhaps you can explain why there was a need of new institution when Prabhupada's own guru had his own?

    -Prabhupada went to America to fulfill His Guru's desire to spread Sanatana dharma all over the world. In America he requested the Gaudia Math (His guru's institution)
    back in India to establish a branch there, but they refused. So he established his own organisation - The International Society for Krishna-consciousness - ISKCON. That organisation now have temples and preaching-senters in most countries of the world, and the distribution of books given to us by His Divine Grace has now passed 500 million copies. A wave of mercy is flooding the earth!

    See I have no problem with sampradaya if it suits the masses what I object is the word 'authentic Guru' I think its an insult to the word Guru it self. A guru is a guru who dispels ignorance. Some people try monopolise that in sampradaya only, that is what I object to.

    -There are gurus on many levels, and that's ok, but this is Kali-yuga, and many so-called gurus mislead their disciples with deviant philosophies and practises. Therefore Srila Prabhupada stressed the importance of qualification.


    Oh really I wonder why not Vishnu


    It is called brahma-sampradaya in order to distinguish it from the other three sampradayas - Rudra-, Sri- and Kumara-sampradaya comming from Lord Vishnu.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Hare Krishna.

  10. #70
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    Re: What does the Supreme really want?

    Pranam


    Quote Originally Posted by Viraja View Post
    So true!

    Even eternally free atmas such as those belonging to naishtika brahmacharis seem to be taking birth from time to time to uplift mankind. For example, Saint Kabirdas is supposedly a re-birth of Sukha-brahmam and Sant Samartha Ramadas is supposedly a re-birth of Anjaneya Swami!
    Unfortunately lots of tall claims are made all the time, its a matter of faith, none of it we can verify rationally. though there is always a possibility we can not discount.

    Somewhere I read long time ago that in every cycle (consisting of a chatur-yuga), avataras and even human births get repeated in the exact same way! So me is born a 'me' again in the next chatur-yuga! But I hope this isn't true for common people. But, it is said, the Lord repeats all his avataras in every cycle in exactly the same way!
    I don't know i have heard of Kalpa bhed, or else we will question the free will of an individual.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

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