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Thread: What does the Supreme really want?

  1. #31

    Re: What does the Supreme really want?

    [quote=Ganeshprasad;119653]Pranam




    Perhaps you be kind enough to let us know who is bona-fide spiritual master?

    further is lord Krishna, in this verse taking about institutionalised Parampara! Where like in a corporate institute, Gurus are appointed as in voted in!

    I am sorry to bring this in because parampara is important for me but then I always understood it to be Kula dharma based.

    Namaste.

    Please read The Qualifications of the Spiritual Master
    by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada


    on this page:

    http://backtogodhead.in/the-qualific...mi-prabhupada/

    -and
    The Power of the Disciplic Succession, Guru Parampara


    on this page:


    http://krishna.org/the-power-of-the-disciplic-succession-guru-parampara/

    Hare Krishna.

  2. #32
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    Re: What does the Supreme really want?

    Namaste Marga,

    I didn't want to proceed on this thread but I would answer your questions :

    See, the scriptures are not unanimous on this issue. So, the cause of this "creation" is not known. That is why Rig Veda says, "Perhaps He (God) knows, or perhaps He doesn't". So, Rig Veda makes it clear that no one knows the real cause of the creation.

    However, there is one consistency in scriptures that Prakriti and Purusha have been considered as "AnAdi". If Prakriti is AnAdi i.e. beginningless then how can there be a cause of Prakriti and if there was Prakriti from the beginning, then there was no time when the creation occurred and it must be beginningless in whatever form it might be.

    Prakriti or MAyA is the cause of three states of Brahman i.e. Ishvara, this gross world and the subtle world. The gross-world and the subtle world arise and end into Ishvara but there was never a time when this cycle started. That is why Lord Krishna says in Bhagwad Gita Chapter -2 that there was never a time when He (Lord Krishna) was not there or Arjuna was not there ... etc.

    The VedAnta Gurus say that this question is absurd. There is no "why" for this creation and there is no need that there must be a "why" for everything. We have somehow got this idea that everything in this creation must have a "why" ... but that is not true. Why E= MC**2 and not E = MC ** 3 ? Why do we have only two eyes and not three ? Why father doesn't produce a child but mother does ? Why all rivers are of water and none of it is of cow's milk ? Why do we need Oxygen to live and not nitrogen ? Why must everyone die or take birth ? Why aren't we designed to take energy directly from the Sun ? etc. etc.

    These questions have no answer. Because the things are as they are. There is no "why" and there is no compulsion that there should be a "why" for everything.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  3. #33
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    Re: What does the Supreme really want?

    Pranam

    Quote Originally Posted by Marga mana das View Post



    Please read The Qualifications of the Spiritual Master
    by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada


    I am sorry the onus is on you to tell us who is a authentic guru, unless off course you give us a shastric pramana, since I am not his sisya, it does not make much sense to read something I may or may not agree with.

    -and
    The Power of the Disciplic Succession, Guru Parampara


    on this page:


    http://krishna.org/the-power-of-the-...uru-parampara/

    Hare Krishna.
    I am afraid you have failed to answer my query, I have no problem with guru parampara that is an age old tradition guru sisya, that has been the norm over the ages, the question was is it institute confined? The old tradition is more dynamic then merely confined in an institute which operates like a corporate business.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  4. #34
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    Re: What does the Supreme really want?

    Dear All,

    Really the question here should be whether the parabrahmam is 'desirous' of bhadda-jeevatmas attaining moksha or not, IMHO.

    While it is still unclear to me the SriVaishnava standing w.r.t to the above doubt, today I came across a message from 'Thiruvaimozhi' that seems to concur with Devotee ji's message above (However I am still not very much clarified). I thought of sharing it here for everyone's benefit as well as to express my interest in knowing the SriVaishnava standing with reference to this doubt.
    From: http://ponnadi.blogspot.com/2013/10/...charya-18.html

    ivanukku svarUpasthithi uNdAmpadi paNNikkoNdu nirapEkshaNAga vENumiRE avanukku. ivanudaiya svarUpa sthithyarththamAga avan thannaith thAzha vittAnenRAl athuthAnE nairapEkshyaththukku udalAyirukkumiRE avanukku.

    இவனுக்கு ஸ்வரூபஸ்திதி உண்டாம்படி பண்ணிக்கொண்டு நிரபேக்ஷநாக வேணுமிறே அவனுக்கு. இவனுடைய ஸ்வரூப ஸ்தித்யர்த்தமாக அவன் தன்னைத் தாழ விட்டானென்றால் அதுதானே நைரபேக்ஷ்யத்துக்கு உடலாயிருக்குமிறே அவனுக்கு.

    emperumAn maintains his desireless state while sustaining the existence of jIvAthmA. Thus, to establish the jIvAthmA's true nature (of servitorship) and for the sustainence of the jIvAthmA, if bhagavAn lowers his own position that itself demonstrates that bhagavAn does not expect anything from the jIvAthmA.

    Translator's note: Everything exists on bhagavAn. bhagavAn is the AdhAram (foundation) for every entity. Out of his unbounded mercy, bhagavAn keeps trying to purify the jIvAthmAs. After layam (devolution), during srushti (creation), bhagavAn gives the jIvAthmAs body and senses, gyAnam (knowledge), sAsthram, etc. He himself descends into samsAram to purify the jIvAthmAs. He facilitates the appearance of AzhwArs and AchAryas and uplift many jIvAthmAs through them. But even after doing all of this, he is not expecting anything from jIvAthmAs since he has no expectations. He does all of this for the upliftment of jIvAthmAs and to have them situated in their natural position - which is being a servitor to emperumAn.
    Thanks and regards.
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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    Re: What does the Supreme really want?

    Namaste,

    I just talked to the Supreme and what He really wants is for all of you to stop talking about Him behind his back!

    Pranam.

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    Re: What does the Supreme really want?

    Pranam

    Quote Originally Posted by Believer View Post
    Namaste,

    I just talked to the Supreme and what He really wants is for all of you to stop talking about Him behind his back!

    Pranam.
    Now that would very difficult to BELIEVE cause in the Gita all he wants us to do is think about him talk about him and walk that talk.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  7. #37

    Re: What does the Supreme really want?

    Namaste devotee.

    Vyasadeva Himself, luckily, is not bewildered. He wrote the Bhagavata purana on the impetus of His guru, Narada Muni, after feeling discontent after having compiled the vedas and the vedanta sutra. The Bhagavatam is very clear on the creation - and on the nature of the Supreme Brahman. Bhagavatam gives us Bhagavan - the Supreme Personality of Godhead who is the source of everything (aham sarvasya prabhava, Bg.10.8), the basis of the impersonal Brahman (brahmano hi pratisthaham, Bg. 14.27) and the best friend (suhrit, Bg. 9.18).

    Sri Krishna Caitanya Mahaprabhu - the yuga avatara of Kali yuga who appeared 528 years ago in Mayapur - and who happen to be part of our sampradaya, the Brahma-Madhva-gaudia sampradaya (Brahma instructed Narada, and Vyasa instructed Madhva), glorifies the Bhagavatam as "puranam amalam" - the spotless purana. So the gurus in our line, that is originated by Lord Vishnu Himself by instucting Brahma, know the nature of the Supreme.

    And guess what: You are invited! Just surrender unto Krishna, follow His system of attaining realized knowledge of the Absolute, and become fortunate beyond comprehension to finally - attain your siddha-deha (spiritual form) by which you can see the Absolute Truth face to face. At that point there is no uncertainty and need for speculation anymore - you will know the Truth, and you will know endless joy!

    Please, everybody, take advantage of that great mercy that is available. Surrender to the Lotus Feet of the Lord, and become that mahatma Sri Krishna speaks of in the gita (7.19):

    bahunam janmanam ante
    jnanavan mam prapadyate
    vasudevah sarvam iti
    sa mahatma su-durlabhah
    SYNONYMS
    bahunam--many; janmanam--births; ante--after; jnana-van--he possessing knowledge; mam--unto Me; prapadyate--surrenders; vasudevah--cause of all causes; sarvam--all; iti--thus; sah--such; maha-atma--great soul; su-durlabhah--very rare.
    TRANSLATION
    After many births and deaths, he who is actually in knowledge surrenders unto Me, knowing Me to be the cause of all causes and all that is. Such a great soul is very rare.

    Hare Krishna!

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    Re: What does the Supreme really want?

    Namaste Marga,

    I can understand your devotion to Lord Krishna and emotions attached to Vaishnava PuraNas. However, I cannot accept that only Bhagwatam is free any blemishes and all other PurANas are tainted. I would place all PurANas at the same level as they are all PurANas and for one sect one PurANa can be the authority and for another sect another PurANa can be the authority. That is the issue with the PurANas. PurANas must conform to the Shruti i.e. the Vedas and wherever they differ from what Shruti says cannot be accepted as authority as the Vedas are the highest authority.

    Thanks for your invitation. I am a devotee of Lord Krishna (and greatly inspired by Bhagwad Gita) and I am an Advaitin. So, I don't differentiate among various forms of God.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  9. #39

    Re: What does the Supreme really want?

    Pranams Devotee,

    I am a devotee of Lord Krishna (and greatly inspired by Bhagwad Gita) and I am an Advaitin. So, I don't differentiate among various forms of God.
    Could you explain this more please Devotee Prabhu. I am not sure what you mean by not differentiating the different forms of God.

    As far as i understand the Puranas are the history's which are filled with stories and absolute philosophical concepts. Perhaps the Puranas in some ways are more easily understood in the age of Kali Yuga than Vedanta and more sophisticated grammatical parts of shastra. However it is a valid point that all shastra should be in line with Shruti. In most cases they will be, but there are translations that maybe questionable.

    Another point of view which maybe valid in a philosophical sense is that Shastra is all inclusive, it incorporates all the minds and conditions of the Jiva. Like in Ayurveda the treatment for the same disease may vary according to the individual. We need to be absorbed in our own treatment in as less sectarian ways as possible, The Supreme is way beyond how our mortal minds can think, and perhaps it is a little unwise for us to try and trap everything within the philosophical and intellectual range.

    Ys

    Md

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    Re: What does the Supreme really want?

    Namaste Markandeya ji,

    Quote Originally Posted by markandeya 108 dasa View Post
    Could you explain this more please Devotee Prabhu. I am not sure what you mean by not differentiating between the different forms of God.
    See, in Chapter 13 of Bhagwad Gita, God says that He Himself is BrahmA, Vishnu and also the Maheshwara i.e. Lord Shiva. So, how can one form be said to be superior to another. Again, this is proved by the Shruti too. Rig Veda says, "Ekam Sad Vipra bahudha vadanti" ===> The Truth is one but is described in various ways by the devotees. Also, in PurANas too, you may see that one purANa described Shiva as the Supreme and another PurANa says that Vishnu is the Supreme. This is validated by Vedas too. Now, the Supreme cannot be two. It must be one alone. So, what is Shiva is Vishnu and what is Vishnu is Shiva.

    This is what I mean. MAndukya Upanishad in doesn't name God or gives it any form. It simply describes God as Omnipotent, Omniscient, Non-dual, blissful, the origin and end of all beings, Lord of all beings and free from MAyA.

    We need to be absorbed in our own treatment in as less sectarian ways as possible, The Supreme is way beyond how our mortal minds can think, and perhaps it is a little unwise for us to try and trap everything within the philosophical and intellectual range.
    Exactly ! Please accept my deepest reagards to you for this understanding and conveying it here.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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