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Thread: Beyond Brahman

  1. #11
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    Re: Beyond Brahman

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté


    We find in the bṛhadarāṇyakopaniṣad¹ (4.4.25) that fearlessness is indeed brahman. And he who knows this brahman becomes fearless.

    Why do you think the upaniṣad-s call brahman fearless (abhayam¹) ?

    iti śivaṁ

    • abhayam - fearless , undaunted ; abhayā is the removal of fear , peace , safety , security
    • This chapter/section of the bṛhadarāṇyakopaniṣad is called śārīrika brāhmaa. The term used is quite interesting:
      śārīrika = relating to the body; contained in the body , incorporate. It suggests the following:
      a. before one unfolds brahman within their experience,
      b.
      when brahman becomes part of one's own being as a daily experience AND,
      c. what happens to the body after it is stuck down.

    Last edited by yajvan; 05 September 2014 at 01:19 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #12
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    Re: Beyond Brahman

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    Why do you think the upaniṣad-s call brahman fearless (abhayam¹) ?
    Namaste Yajvan ji,

    Please accept my humble pranam.

    This is a very, very interesting question. I am tempted to guess.

    We are all, essentially, part and parcel of Brahman. All of us are 'Angas' or limbs to Brahman. Yet, Brahman divides himself into so many of us and makes us be born in a world that is deluded such that we are exposed to many different kinds of sufferings. How brave of Brahman to do this! As I am writing this, I am thinking of the exclamation of my husband recently over so many parents sending their children over to be soldiers fearlessly. Necessarily, we are to Brahman what our children are to us.. But brahman, unlike an ordinary parent who wishes safety and security along with riches for the child, is like the parent who willingly sends his children to the war-front to be brave soldiers. This is why Brahman is brave.

    This is just a humble attempt. I apologize if this is not the view upanishads have in declaring why Brahman is brave.

    Thanks and regards.
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

  3. #13
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    Re: Beyond Brahman

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by Viraja View Post
    We are all, essentially, part ....
    Note I stopped your quote at 'part' . This is to offer the wisdom that is given to us within the bṛhadarāṇyaka upaniṣad for your kind consideration.

    We must first talk of fear before we can address fearlessness. For a person to be fearful there must be something to be fearful of. That is, there must be other things for me to fear ( hence the notion of 'parts' ). Let me explain.

    If I am part A and something else ( say another person) is part B, then we have 2. Either A or B can be fearful of the other. Yet what if there are no parts ? No A or B? Then there is no 2. Here is where fearlessness comes in. With brahman there is only wholeness, fullness, there are no parts but only brahman. If there is only 'me' every where I look , what can I be fearful of as I see my SELF everywhere ?

    This bṛhadaraṇyaka upaniṣad - puruṣavidha-brāhmaṇa, 2nd śloka says it this way:
    Any time there is a sense of 2, fear arises i.e. dvitiyad vai bhayam bhavati - fear is born of duality.

    So, with brahman there is no 2, anywhere. But within the human condition and our 'blemished eye' as the wise say, we see 2. We see ourselves and everything else - all multiplicity outside our selves.
    Yet when one comes to know their essential nature once again, then the only thing that is perceived is one's SELF ( brahman) everywhere and no fear can arise i.e. fearlessness.



    iti śivaṁ
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  4. #14
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    Re: Beyond Brahman

    Really excellent point, Yajvan ji. I never thought it was going to be the answer you gave. It actually reminds me of this paragraph I read recently from the great master, OSHO.

    http://www.oshorajneesh.com/download...nscendence.pdf

    During the 1857 revolution a sannyasin was killed by a soldier by mistake. A silent naked sannyasin was passing by the cantonment of an English battalion. The soldiers caught hold of him and asked him, ”Who are you?” But as he was in silence he did not reply. Because of his keeping quiet they became suspicious of him and one English soldier pierced his chest with a spear. The sannyasin had taken the vow of speaking only once at the time of death: he had been silent for the last thirty years.

    When the spear pierced his breast and the blood gushed out, then he spoke only one sentence of the Upanishads: tattvamasi, shvetketu – you are also that, Shvetketu.

    People gathered round him and asked him, ”What do you mean?”

    He said, ”I mean that the divine can come in any guise, he will not be able to deceive me. Today he has come with the spear in his hand. The spear has pierced my chest but I can see that inside the soldier it is only him. He cannot deceive me.” The blood was oozing out of his chest, but the
    sannyasin was dancing because he could see godliness in his murderer.

    This means that whatever may happen, in all types of circumstances, the divine should be visible.

    He should be seen in the enemy, he should be seen in death too when it comes. He should be seen in a friend and in the enemy also.
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

  5. #15
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    Re: Beyond Brahman

    Namaste,

    The concept of Beyond Brahman does seem to exists in some school of thoughts for example as below:

    Beyond Brahman there is Parabrahman. Brahman refers to the living entity, and Parabrahman refers to the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

    BG 8.3, Purport: Brahman is indestructible and eternally existing, and its constitution is not changed at any time. But beyond Brahman there is Parabrahman.
    Brahman refers to the living entity, and Parabrahman refers to the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
    The constitutional position of the living entity is different from the position he takes in the material world.
    In material consciousness his nature is to try to be the lord of matter, but in spiritual consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, his position is to serve the Supreme.
    When the living entity is in material consciousness, he has to take on various bodies in the material world. That is called karma, or varied creation by the force of material consciousness.


    read more here:


    http://vaniquotes.org/wiki/Beyond_Brahman

  6. #16
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    Re: Beyond Brahman

    Namaste Renuka ji,

    Quote Originally Posted by renuka View Post
    The concept of Beyond Brahman does seem to exists in some school of thoughts for example as below:

    Beyond Brahman there is Parabrahman. Brahman refers to the living entity, and Parabrahman refers to the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

    BG 8.3, Purport: Brahman is indestructible and eternally existing, and its constitution is not changed at any time. But beyond Brahman there is Parabrahman.
    Brahman refers to the living entity, and Parabrahman refers to the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
    The constitutional position of the living entity is different from the position he takes in the material world.
    In material consciousness his nature is to try to be the lord of matter, but in spiritual consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, his position is to serve the Supreme.
    When the living entity is in material consciousness, he has to take on various bodies in the material world. That is called karma, or varied creation by the force of material consciousness.


    read more here:


    http://vaniquotes.org/wiki/Beyond_Brahman
    "Supreme Personality of Godhead"? ... so you have started reading ISKCON's scriptures !

    Better rely on the VedAnta (being part of the Vedas, the highest authority in Hindu scriptures) which gives us the Brahman-vidya.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  7. #17
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    Re: Beyond Brahman

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Namaste Renuka ji,



    "Supreme Personality of Godhead"? ... so you have started reading ISKCON's scriptures !

    Better rely on the VedAnta (being part of the Vedas, the highest authority in Hindu scriptures) which gives us the Brahman-vidya.

    OM
    Namaste Ji,

    I dont want to say I read everything or anything or everything(that could become a heading for a new thread!).

    I had read a lot of ISCKON books when I was 16-18 years of age.

    We were not ISCKON followers but my dad bought a lot of books of theirs.

    My dad also knew a few ISCKON monks who when visiting town would stay in our house.

    So they also used to 'teach' us something about religion when they came to our home.

    Therefore I remembered reading sometime back about Beyond Brahman.

    Frankly speaking I do not like to rely on anything. I simply read.

    I feel the truth has its own manner of unveiling itself.

    Books provide information and it stops there... ...true knowledge is direct perception and it might take countless births for a glimpse of the direct perception..so there is no hurry for me here.

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