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Thread: great (profound) questions...

  1. #11
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    Re: great (profound) questions...

    Pranam

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post


    This question is quite intriguing. We know today how the eye works, or the stomach digests, how sense perception functions in general. We get our information from modern biology , chemistry and psychology. These things , all great in themselves, Provide useful info, but the ultimate question is how does all this function as a whole, and is able to bring all these millions of interactions into a being with consciousness and producing the consciousness in some way. Who compels this to happen and how is it orchestrated ?

    iti śivaṁ
    I find this answer while doing Nyasam, invoking different adhistaDeva for different part of the body. For instance Jathare Agni thistatu etc.

    then again reading Gita one may get this answer;

    Becoming the digestive fire, I remain in the body of all living beings; uniting with vital breaths, the Prana and Apana, I digest all four varieties of food; and (15.14)


    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  2. #12
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    Re: great (profound) questions...

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté


    One question I think is interesting: Within the 1st verse of the brahmasūtra–s¹ the author states;

    athāto brahma jijñāsā – now then, the inquiry into (or of) brahman.

    The style or the approach of the brahmasūtra-s is that of terse words; the simplest and most profound at the same time. It is all about economy and value – the least number of words (sūtra=stitch) with the highest level of meaning.


    If this is so, why did the author begin with now then ( some say therefore) ? Could he simply had said, the inquiry into brahman ?
    The author does not even need to say 'the start' of the inquiry because we know its the first sutra and it must be the start. What then is the significance of applying ‘now then’ (athāto) ?


    iti śivaṁ

    1. the brahmasūtra-s , written by bādarāyana ( some write is vādarāyaṇa) . There are plenty of views of who this author was; many a vaiṣṇava believe him to be none other than veda vyāsa. Others think that veda vyāsa as a ‘compiler’ arranged the work of bādarāyana into the form of the brahmasūtra-s.
    Composed of 4 chapters containing 555 sūtra-s and 223 topics (adhikaraṇa-s) yet people contest these numbers but not the 4 divisions; its intent is to ~digest~ the wisdom found within the upaniṣad-s.
    Last edited by yajvan; 30 September 2014 at 07:18 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #13

    Re: great (profound) questions...

    Dear Yajvan ji,
    Namasthe!

    Traditionally I think "now then" is used to mean that "after having gained the required qualifications"...

    After gaining the required mental purity to be able to appreciate the Self Knowledge that is going to be presented in the text. That is the meaning, I presume.

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  4. #14
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    Re: great (profound) questions...

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    There is a great question we find within the commentary of the paramārthasāra¹ . The approach used is that of stating an opponent's opposition to a particular view, then answering the question to remove the dispute.

    This is associated with the 9th śloka found in the paramārthasāra. Without adding all the devanāgarī words, let me state the argument offered:

    If there is no difference between a person ( which in this school is often called the experient) and the supreme (parama) lord (īśvara)
    why are they not all the same ? Either all knowers of the SELF in total, or all non-knowers of the SELF ? Why do we find a mixture? How can this be if the Supreme is homogenous, whole, and everywhere the same which gives this unity to all beings ?

    Within this school (kaśmir śaivism) in general there are 3 types of humans ( even though on further review there is a refinement
    to a few more). Those that are liberated, those that are not, and those that are mixed i.e. liberation may only occur briefly while eyes are closed.
    As the argument goes, how can there be this ad-mixture or diversity of experients if in-fact all and everything is the supreme ?

    iti śivaṁ

    1. paramārthasāra is in essence the work of śeṣa patañjali ( some call ādiśeṣa ) consisting of 85 śloka-s and is expanded upon by abhinavagupta within the framework of advitīya (~ non dual~, without a second) kaśmir śaivism
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  5. #15

    Re: great (profound) questions...

    Namaste
    Great respect to Yajvan-ji.
    This thread inspires me to look deeper into the Yama's answer. I just need to find the most faithful translation. And finding the best translations is not always trivial.
    I admit my sanskrit is not good. So I prefer translations in either English, French or Russian (and some other less used minor languages). So I notices that translations of one single work wildly diverge. Take for example VBT, so many translations, the best is by Lilian Silburn, simply awesome, nobody else commented on the visible dynamic interplay between the slokas, she did. Another example, Ashtavakra Gita, so many diverging translations. Now my favorite translation of Paramarthasara is the following
    http://www.amazon.ca/Introduction-Ta...paramarthasara
    Worth every single penny. That's my humble opinion. Yajvan-ji what would be your opinion about that book?

  6. #16

    Re: great (profound) questions...

    Pranams

    Silence speaks

    In Buddhist tradition they have the concept of a "Sangha"... a community. A community is where the Sadhakas respect each other, respect each other's views and practice together.
    Thank you for bringing the true meaning of Sangha up, I have been to many places where different schools have different sadhanas and practices and within those schools many times, but not always, there is a tendency among humans to think there path is the exclusive one, or the only one. This I find the most frustrating thing about religion.

    Again thank you for the true purport of Sangha.

    Ys

    Md

  7. #17
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    Re: great (profound) questions...

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    In the 2nd chapter of the śiva sūtra-s¹, we find the following:
    cittaṁ mantraṁ || 2.1

    This says, mind is mantra.

    Have we not been told that mantra is a formula, a ~secret sound form~ ? Yet this sūtra say mind is mantra . How can this be ?

    iti śivaṁ

    1. the śivasūtra-s were revealed to vasugupta-ji. The most authoritive writing/commentary on this book/revelation is offered by kṣemarāja and is called śivasūtravimarśinī-hṛdaya. This says the examination, knowledge discussion (vimarśa) of the śiva sutra-s. The notion of hṛdaya means 'heart', suggesting the core, the inner most. Hence
    it now says, the inner most knowledge being discussed on the śiva sutra-s.
    Last edited by yajvan; 20 October 2014 at 01:20 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  8. #18

    Re: great (profound) questions...

    Namaste Yajvan Ji,

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    ... Have we not been told that mantra is a formula, a ~secret sound form~ ? Yet this sūtra say mind is mantra . How can this be ?
    Might I offer the thought that the sea of thought with which we interact, citta, is a construct of notions upon which we have placed words as containers; in Sanskrit even the sounds of which the words are constructed are themselves containers holding notion.
    Our thoughts arise and are then expressed through 4 levels of sound, this is key to Vedic thought, the form of which thus is its self mantra, constructed from these containers or forms in rhythmic patterns.

    It can be said even that often the rhythm and intonation is more expressive than the words them selves; changing the expressed meaning of a sentence by way of more subtle sakti.

    Thank you for your consideration.
    8i8

  9. #19

    Re: great (profound) questions...

    Dear Yajvan ji,
    Namasthe!

    I'll give it my try.

    A mantra, is defined as "Mananat trayathe iti mantrah",
    mananat: upon reflection, upon contemplation.
    Trayathe: protects, saves, leads out of the samsara ocean... leads to Self.

    So every mantra, has one Lakshyartha [implied meaning] : Self. [Otherwise it cannot lead one out of the samsara ocean].

    And Mind is "as if born" from Self. Mind is Self alone. Hence Mantra's lakshyartha is Self and mind is Self alone --- mind is like a snake imagined on the rope , Self. Hence mind is Self. Thus Mantra is automatically the Mind !!



    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  10. #20
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    Re: great (profound) questions...

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namaste

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    In the 2nd chapter of the śiva sūtra-s, we find the following:
    cittaṁ mantraṁ || 2.1

    This says, mind is mantra.
    How can this be ?
    Kṣemarāja, within his śivasūtravimarśinī-hṛdaya¹ explains this sūtra two ways. I will only offer the reader the one approach and encourage those that are interested to read the 2nd approach directly.

    He informs us that the mind of the yogī that is fit, is always śuddha ( clear, clean, pure, bright) and his/her thoughts are without blemish (mala). Therefore his/her thoughts are directed to the divine, to god consciousness. What ever thoughts come to this native are divine and hence all thoughts can be considered mantra. Mantra is divinity in the mind, not that which comes from the lips.

    Now the 2nd way ( which I will not expand upon) considers prāsāda mantra, praava mantra, and mind. This should be read by the interested HDF reader.

    iti śivaṁ

    1. the śivasūtra-s were revealed to vasugupta-ji. The most authoritive writing/commentary on this book/revelation is offered by kṣemarāja and is called śivasūtravimarśinī-hṛdaya. This says the examination, knowledge discussion (vimarśa) of the śiva sutra-s. The notion of hṛdaya means 'heart', suggesting the core, the inner most. Hence
    it now says, the inner most knowledge being discussed on the śiva sūtra-s.
    Last edited by yajvan; 23 October 2014 at 02:42 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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