Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 49

Thread: great (profound) questions...

  1. #21
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    64
    Posts
    7,646
    Rep Power
    382

    Re: great (profound) questions...

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    Another question I have heard 'on the street' is the following...

    Why did the Supreme ~create~ this universe and what do I have to do with it ? Or the more mundane question is, why (then) am I here?

    iti śivaṁ
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #22

    Re: great (profound) questions...

    Namaste Yajvan Ji,

    If I might reply with some thoughts that your questions have inspired in me.

    Perhaps we are quite simply stitches in the manifold nature of space and time, Her neatly woven tapestry depicting Him; thus we unwittingly hold pārvatī & śiva's embrace ...
    Were it not for our own self delusion; we might complain at the sheer audacity of that, but then again, with out the delusion of self we might also relax and enjoy the love.

    Thus I will conclude that we are here to hold and to bind the fabric of time. If this is so, what then is time? Perhaps, quite simply, a biological allusion to self; as a container or kunda for ones own self knowledge.
    8i8

  3. #23
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    64
    Posts
    7,646
    Rep Power
    382

    Re: great (profound) questions...

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post

    Another question I have heard 'on the street' is the following...

    Why did the Supreme ~create~ this universe and what do I have to do with it ? Or the more mundane question is, why (then) am I here?
    There are several answers to the 1st question mentioned above. We can find support for this in our upaniṣad-s no doubt; yet one place I wish go is the following.
    It is found in abhinanagupta-ji's work called bodhapañcadśikā or the 15 verses of wisdom. He informs us of the following:
    tasaivaiṣā parā devī
    svarūpāmarṣantosukā |
    pūrṅatvaṁ sarvabhāveṣu
    yasya nālpaṁ na cādhikam ||

    I will rely on svāmī lakman-jū for the proper translation of this śloka. This then says,
    The collective state of the universe is His supreme energy (or śakti) which He created to recognize His own nature. This śakti who is the embodiment of the collective state of the universe loves possessing the state of God Consciousness. She is in the state of ignorance remaining perfectly complete (pūrṅatvaṁ) and full in each and every object.

    Svāmī lakman-jū informs us, why has He ( śiva) created this supreme energy in His own nature ? For one reason - to recognize His own nature. This whole universe is nothing more than the means by which we can come to recognize śiva. You can come to recognize
    śiva through the universe, not by abandoning it. Svāmī-ji further says, that is why this external universe is called śakti because it is the means to realize own's own nature.
    So if we look at this word śakti we know it is defined as power, , ability , strength , might , effort , energy , capability. If we look to the definition of śakta it is defined as able , competent for , equal to, capable of . Yet if we look a bit deeper we find the following:
    śa+k+ ti
    • śa = śiva
    • śak = to be strong or powerful
    • ti is for íti and iti means 'thus', ' in this manner'
    Hence we can say thus (ti) śakti is the power (śak) of śiva (śa).

    As you would expect there is another view (not opposed) on this :
    ti = iti =itya ( from ityaí) to be gone or ( to go) towards. Now we have to go towards (ti) śiva (śa) is in this manner (íti) via śakti ( śak ).

    This is why it is said śaivīmukham ihocyate - śakti is the entrance, the suitable way to join with śiva. Or another way of viewing it is Śrī Devī (śakti) is the delightful (uc) entrance (mukha) to śiva.

    Hence when svāmī lakṣman-jū informs us, this whole universe is nothing more then the means by which we can come to recognize śiva. You can come to recognize śiva through the universe, not by abandoning it. It resonates perfectly with the notion of śakti.

    The 2nd question:
    what do I have to do with it ? Or the more mundane question is, why (then) am I here?
    Simply put, you are śiva. And why are you here dear śiva ? As mentioned above, to recognize your own fullness, your own nature. It is you that wished to throttle your Self down into this human condition. Now you are here to recollect your fullness once again. Something you really never lost - as you have co-mingled your Self into the diversity of the 31 tattva-s that are seemingly in duality. The other 5 tattva-s are perfectly pure. So , it is to once again recall those other 5 tattva-s; this allows one to be in the mist of diversity ( the 31 tattva-s) and never forget the purity of one's essential stainless Being ( the other 5 tattva-s).


    iti śivaṁ
    Last edited by yajvan; 25 October 2014 at 07:01 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  4. #24

    Re: great (profound) questions...

    Dear Yajvan ji,
    Namasthe!

    This being a Uttara forum : Creation is a Myth !!
    It is like the horns of a hare!!

    Please listen to this secret , with great alertness: Ribhu Gita, chapter 8

    इदँ प्रपञ्चँ यत् किञ्चित् यः शृणोति च पश्यति।
    दृश्यरूपँ च दृग्रूपँ सर्वँ शशविषाणवत्॥

    Whatever traces of this world one hears or one sees of it, the form that is seen and the form of seer are all like horns of a hare


    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  5. #25
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    64
    Posts
    7,646
    Rep Power
    382

    Re: great (profound) questions...

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    Creation is a Myth !! It is like the horns of a hare!!

    Please listen to this secret , with great alertness: Ribhu Gita, chapter 8

    इदँ प्रपञ्चँ यत् किञ्चित् यः शृणोति च पश्यति।
    दृश्यरूपँ च दृग्रूपँ सर्वँ शशविषाणवत्॥

    Whatever traces of this world one hears or one sees of it, the form that is seen and the form of seer are all like horns of a hare
    This view is quite in vogue with many advaita vedāntins. Just as popular is the whole notion of māyā. Many hear this notion as their first teaching within sanātana dharma and add it to their knowledge base. Yet this is not the full story.


    I encourage the reader to consider the vivekacūḍāmaṇi ( or the Crown jewel of Discrimination ) and see the words offered by ādi śakara¹, one of the key anchors of śāntabrahmavāda ( another name for advaita vedānta).
    If his words are a bit recondite (obscure) then let me suggest ramaṅa mahaṛṣi and his discussion in chapter 17 of Be As You Are, edited by David Godman. Ramaṅa mahaṛṣi’s intellect, explanation and brilliance is outstanding on this matter.

    Last, the knowledge I offered in post 23 above is from the trika (tṛka) non-dual point of view. The seers of this knowledge where quite aware of the other schools’ view regarding ‘illusion and myth’ (a.k.a. advaita vedānta). Yet these muni-s did not see ( or experience) Reality in this manner. Their simple premise is this:
    If all this is a myth, then the source of all this is also myth (śiva), and this is rejected. From here their insights on Reality and the discussion thereof takes place. I find their knowledge valid, but do not suggest it usurps that of advaita vedānta, because both at their core has the firm conviction of wholeness pūrṇapātrapratibhaṭa ( fullness or a full vessel i.e. overflowing , supreme).

    So, the finer point that I have conveniently left out is the notion of ~creation~. We , as humans, think of it as a construction job of raw
    materials assembled into something new. That is, there is the materials and there is the maker, like clay and the potter that forms the clay.
    The tṛka view and many other schools discuss this in length. That is how many schools views are exercised and developed. For now
    it is not the time to do this as multiple points of view can be offered.

    But yajvan, why all this views? Why all these schools ? Simply put – people can accept and comprehend knowledge at different levels of
    consciousness. For some, one school resonates best, and for others a different school is best suited. So, fluidity of thinking is an asset
    if one wishes to discuss these matters. A sense of ferreting out the truth is a good tool. But if it causes one consternation, then
    one knows it is time to take a rest and wait a bit for beginning again. Knowledge is structured in consciousness . When consciousness
    expands then comprehension will be available to ‘get’ some of the deeper conventions that several schools offer.

    iti śivaṁ

    words
    • ādi śakara
      • ādi = first, beginning
      • śakara = śaṃkara = causing prosperity , auspicious , beneficent. This is another name for śiva or rudra
      • bhagavatpāda = bhagavat+pāda bhagavat is glorious , illustrious , divine + pāda or pādāḥ is added to proper names or titles in token of respect.
        With this case pāda it is then a ray or beam of light (considered as the foot of a heavenly body).
    Last edited by yajvan; 27 October 2014 at 12:11 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  6. #26

    Re: great (profound) questions...

    Dear yajvan ji,
    Namasthe!

    I am not denying that there are different views.
    All I am saying is that the different views are "Lower" ... for people who have not matured to the level to be able to accept "Ajata Vada".

    And since this is "Uttara" ... I proposed that "Ajata Vada" alone stands !!

    Ramana was time and again propounding Ajata Vada as you might be aware! Many times he would say "Find out if you are born at all" ! "Find out of the world is there now" etc!!

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  7. #27

    Re: great (profound) questions...

    Dear Yajvan ji,


    I would like to suggest a reference Alatashanti prakaranam of Mandukya upanishad where Gaudapadacharya clearly states that the ideas of creation are only suggested for people who cannot "Accept" the non-creation. Esp, Alatashanti verse 42:

    "Instructions about creation has been imparted by the wise for the sake of those who from the facts of experience and adequate behaviour , vouch for the existence of substantiality , and who are ever afraid of the birth-less entity."

    verse 43:

    "For those who , being afraid of the unborn , deviate from the true path by relying on their experience of duality, the faults arising from the acceptance of creation will not bear fruit; and the fault too will be insignificant"


    So stories of creation ... are only for people not ready to accept.

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  8. #28
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    64
    Posts
    7,646
    Rep Power
    382

    Re: great (profound) questions...

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by silence_speaks View Post
    I am not denying that there are different views.
    All I am saying is that the different views are "Lower" ... for people who have not matured to the level to be able to accept "Ajata Vada".

    And since this is "Uttara" ... I proposed that "Ajata Vada" alone stands !!
    I am happy to hear of your resolve on ajātavada¹ within its true meaning. Yet ajātavada is different from what you offered in post 24 above. Which do you wish to profess? There are no horns on the hare, or that this universe has no beginning or end ?


    If you suggest the horns on the hare, then the conversation deposits us within the field of māyā which I differ from the view found in
    sāntabrahmavāda. Yet if the conversation is that of ajātavada I find little ( to very slight) difference ( in wording) between advaita vedānta and trika.

    I have used the term 'created' in my posts above to keep the conversation simple and without consternation for the reader. But if specificity was the soup of the day then the proper word to be applied is sṛṣṭi - letting go, emission. For the human condition people may think , oh creation... ; this is not the case, but I wanted to mention it if we need to get technical.
    Within the infinite, there is no beginning or ending, there is only fullness. What then can be created ? The only thing the ~seems~ to be done is the letting go again and again of the inexhaustible Being within itSELF. Where then can be a start or stop ? The wise try and 'throttle it down' to our level of comprehension via the tattva-s. And trika even goes further then the tattva-s and their orientation, but that too is a completely new conversation.


    iti śivaṁ

    words

    · ajātavada is speaking sensibly about the notion that the universe has neither a beginning or end.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  9. #29

    Re: great (profound) questions...

    Dear Yajvan ji,
    Namasthe!!

    Where do you classify this statement of Ribhu Gita :

    Please listen to this secret , with great alertness: Ribhu Gita, chapter 8

    इदँ प्रपञ्चँ यत् किञ्चित् यः शृणोति च पश्यति।
    दृश्यरूपँ च दृग्रूपँ सर्वँ शशविषाणवत्॥

    Whatever traces of this world one hears or one sees of it, the form that is seen and the form of seer are all like horns of a hare



    and here is one more:

    verse 31 from vaitathya prakarana:

    svapnamaaye yathaa dR^iShte gandharvanagara.N yathaa|
    tathaa vishvamida.N dR^iShta.N vedaanteShu vicaxanauH||

    स्वप्नमाये यथा दृष्ते गन्धर्वनगरँ यथा।
    तथा विश्वमिदँ दृष्तँ वेदान्तेषु विचक्षनौः॥

    just as dream and magic are seen to be unreal, or as is a city in the sky, so also is this whole universe known to be unreal from the upanishads by the wise.


    Love!
    Silence

    Last edited by silence_speaks; 27 October 2014 at 11:24 PM.
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  10. #30

    Re: great (profound) questions...

    Dear Yajvan ji,
    I would like to further quote Alatashanti prakaranam itself :

    verses 68, 69:

    as creatures seen in a dream undergoes birth and death so also do all these creatures appear and disappear.

    as a creature conjured up by magic undergoes birth and death, so also do all these creatures appear and disappear.


    so the entire creation is a myth.

    Source of myth is neither myth nor reality!! myth is not there like a gandharvanagari.

    Awareness ALONE IS! It is Changeless, Motionless. Presence.

    From time immemorial.

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (1 members and 1 guests)

  1. yajvan

Similar Threads

  1. Great Questions...
    By yajvan in forum Philosophy
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 11 December 2010, 05:07 PM
  2. Nilakantha
    By Agnideva in forum Puranas
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 11 May 2009, 10:22 PM
  3. KSITIGARBHA PURVAPRANIDHANA SUTRA
    By shian in forum Buddhism
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 03 June 2008, 12:12 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •